C-172 vs DA20-C1

FlySince9

FlySince9

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Looking for reasons why a flying club would/should switch from a 1985 C-172 (excellent condition both Esthetically and mechanically) to a 2007 DA20-C1... Other than the fact that it's a newer airframe (and a pretty neat/unique airplane). Avionics notwithstanding...
 
FlySince9 said:
Looking for reasons why a flying club would/should switch from a 1985 C-172 (excellent condition both Esthetically and mechanically) to a 2007 DA20-C1... Other than the fact that it's a newer airframe (and a pretty neat/unique airplane). Avionics notwithstanding...
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Any older members in the club with bad knees or other physical challenges?
 
If you need to fly in IMC, the DA-20 is a non option. The DA-20 and 172 do not serve the same market. If you do not need the capabilities of a 172, then the DA-20 is a safer plane with a much longer glide range and is faster on less fuel. It is hotter though.
 
FlySince9 said:
I'm 60 and there is only one guy younger than me... Don't know their orthopedic maladies... why?
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If its a real PITA for the members to physically get in and out of the airplane I suspect many won't fly it much.
 
Henning said:
If you need to fly in IMC, the DA-20 is a non option. The DA-20 and 172 do not serve the same market. If you do not need the capabilities of a 172, then the DA-20 is a safer plane with a much longer glide range and is faster on less fuel. It is hotter though.
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So, what kind of cruise "real world" can you expect in the DA? Hotter? as in Greenhouse? (large canopy).
 
A DA20 is in the same class as a C150. Why wouldn't they replace the 172 with a Warrior or another 172, if they couldn't afford a DA40?
 
Sac Arrow said:
A DA20 is in the same class as a C150. Why wouldn't they replace the 172 with a Warrior or another 172, if they couldn't afford a DA40?
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they can afford it... Just became a remote possibility over the last couple of days when a local one came up for sale... I'm opposed to it, just wanted some input of why someone might think its a good idea...
 
FlySince9 said:
they can afford it... Just became a remote possibility over the last couple of days when a local one came up for sale... I'm opposed to it, just wanted some input of why someone might think its a good idea...
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As a second plane complimentary to the 172, it may make good sense if you consider expanding the membership as viable. They are very efficient VFR planes for a light load, and only have one thing that annoys me and that is the trim switch location that requires me to two hand the the stick to use if there is any pressure on. If I owned one, I would change the grip to the one with the switch on the side for your thumb.
 
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bnt83 said:
Any older members in the club with bad knees or other physical challenges?
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I'm an old fart (67) with bad knees. I've owned my DA20 for 11 years and still love it passionately. It's a little harder to get into and out of than a Cessna, but much easier than most other planes. The combination of speed-economy-payload is unmatched in GA. :yes::D:goofy:;)
 
Plus side - It's fast, incredible glide ratio, it's spin certified, fuel injected. Useful load 600lbs

Minus side - Not IFR certified (no lightning protection), leaning procedure can be a bit tricky
 
If members use it for overnight trips the baggage area is pretty small. Going off memory but I think it holds 40 or 50 lbs. Much more fun to fly and would take it over the 150 I fly any day.
 
For two seats, nonifr, the da20 is a better airplane. Nothing wrong with 172s but cmon they are 1940s airplanes. Time to move on.
 
Um, not optimistic on the cruise speed. I've only flown three examples and the would consistently get about 120kts..

Yea, different aircraft there. For VFR flying, the DA20 is about as good as I've seen. Simple operation and good visibility..
 
brian];1790225 said:
Um, not optimistic on the cruise speed. I've only flown three examples and the would consistently get about 120kts..

Yea, different aircraft there. For VFR flying, the DA20 is about as good as I've seen. Simple operation and good visibility..
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I've enjoyed it doing my PPL in it. Almost done, hopefully a few more weeks.

It's fuel consumption is great though (so i'm told as i don't have much comparison), I was getting a little over 4 gph at for XCs.
 
brian];1790225 said:
Um, not optimistic on the cruise speed. I've only flown three examples and the would consistently get about 120kts..

Yea, different aircraft there. For VFR flying, the DA20 is about as good as I've seen. Simple operation and good visibility..
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Dumb question? I was looking at the POH... Top of VNo is 118... am I missing something?
 
FlySince9 said:
Dumb question? I was looking at the POH... Top of VNo is 118... am I missing something?
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Vne is 168, shame on me...164
Section 2.2 Operating Limitations - Airspeed Limitations

Vno is Maximum permissible speed in rough air- this can be exceeded in smooth air.
 
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dmspilot said:
The difference between true airspeed and indicated?
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I think they are the same that at that speed... the separation comes at higher speeds (according to the POH)... But even Henning mentioned speeds of 127... that is well into the yellow arc... Geeze!
 
ethosunum said:
:dunno: if it's smooth air, it's within the limitations
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yes... understood... I'm just use to the Skyhawk where the yellow arc is sometimes a challenge to reach much less "regularly" cruise there... Anyway... I think my original question has been answered...thanx guys...
 
FlySince9 said:
yes... understood... I'm just use to the Skyhawk where the yellow arc is sometimes a challenge to reach much less "regularly" cruise there... Anyway... I think my original question has been answered...thanx guys...
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Yup... The Diamonds are MUCH more efficient airframes, and it's normal for them to cruise in the yellow until you get up high.

Why are you opposed to the DA20?

Others have covered the differences pretty well, but really it's a matter of mission. If nobody ever takes more than one additional person or flies IFR, you don't really need a C172 anyway and the DA20 might work better for you. But, if you're in the market for a new airplane and you do need IFR capability or four seats, you might want to spring for a DA40 instead. No reason to buy a plane just because it's "local". Airplanes fly, and we have the Internet. Find the right airplane, and either fly it or hire someone to fly it from point A to point B.
 
Energy management in the DA20 can be more important. It can be hard to slow down.

In my mock checkride today, i was to do a no flaps landing at the end. Probably at 4 miles out still on base, 800ft above pattern (towered airport regularly does direction base-to-finals), my mock check ride instructor says "Remember on this one I want a no-flaps landing. You sure are going pretty fast."

From there I basically did an idle engine-out landing with a slip once of final to slow down enough to the no-flaps landing of 70kts
 
ethosunum said:
Energy management in the DA20 can be more important. It can be hard to slow down.

In my mock checkride today, i was to do a no flaps landing at the end. Probably at 4 miles out still on base, 800ft above pattern (towered airport regularly does direction base-to-finals), my mock check ride instructor says "Remember on this one I want a no-flaps landing. You sure are going pretty fast."

From there I basically did an idle engine-out landing with a slip once of final to slow down enough to the no-flaps landing of 70kts
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It's funny to watch a Katana slip - airplane goes sideways and nothing else happens...
 
Yank on back and get it slowed down, she comes down like any other. The issues I have found with many of the DA-20s I have flown are first, too high of an idle; between 1000 & 1200 rpm. It should be between 650 & 700. At 1000 you are still adding a good bit of thrust, at 1200 it eats an extra 1000' or more of runway. The other issue is stall horn calibration at 12-15kts above stall speed. That means at 1.3Vso, the stall horn is on full time, screaming the whole way down final. Most guys I have flown with in them it's silent with them carrying 10kts extra speed. Combine that with the 1200rpm idle, and you have a plane that eats 3500' of runway if you don't want to flat spot the tires. It takes about 20 minutes, a strip of medical tape, and a couple trips around the pattern to calibrate the horn to 3kts above stall with the tape, and maybe an hour to turn down the idle.
 
Henning said:
The issues I have found with many of the DA-20s I have flown are first, too high of an idle; between 1000 & 1200 rpm.
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My school has 2 20s. One idles at 800 the other at 1000. They definitely seem to land a little differently, which i'm not sure i really appreciated at lower hours in my training.
 
So, our club meeting was last night... we gathered in a hangar around the subject aircraft... Pretty cool airplane. It had 6000 hours (was a trainer in Arizona) and a 350 hour Over Hauled engine. Overall it was in very nice shape.

It didn't take long for the members to vote down the option and decide to continue with plans to upgrade the avionics in our Skyhawk... Big reason the DA-20 was rejected was that it is a VFR-only airplane and the loss of the 2 back seats...
 
FlySince9 said:
So, our club meeting was last night... we gathered in a hangar around the subject aircraft... Pretty cool airplane. It had 6000 hours (was a trainer in Arizona) and a 350 hour Over Hauled engine. Overall it was in very nice shape.

It didn't take long for the members to vote down the option and decide to continue with plans to upgrade the avionics in our Skyhawk... Big reason the DA-20 was rejected was that it is a VFR-only airplane and the loss of the 2 back seats...
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Yup, just not going to change those aspects of the 20.......but you could go with the 40. I'm itching to get in one of 3 my school has after my checkride. http://www.diamondaircraft.com/aircraft/da40_xls/range_map.php Specs claim 10g/hr 150kts

It'd be nice if there was a club around one at my field.
 
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