buzzing the tower/runway?

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Peter Ha, May 11, 2020.

  1. Peter Ha

    Peter Ha Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hey folks,
    Is it permissible to fast fly-over the runway? If yes, how low?
    Looking to capture some video. And 'fast' for my C150 is about 85kts. :D
     
  2. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
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  3. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard Pattern Altitude

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    Of course.

    Ask for a low-approach, or ask to fly the runway.

    But don't "buzz the tower" that makes them testy.
     
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  4. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Technically the runway and runway lights are considered a “structure” by many FAA inspectors, and therefore require 500 ft separation “except for takeoff or landing “.

    on the other hand, a time-tested technique that used to be spelled out in the AFH is dragging the runway to determine that it’s safe for landing.

    In other words, use a little discretion. ;)
     
  5. Skip Miller

    Skip Miller Final Approach

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    Yes, we all can't wait for the video of you trying to land... and failing.

    What is the point?

    -Skip
     
  6. WannFly

    WannFly Final Approach

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    ask permission from tower for option and do a low approach, that way if you touch down, you arent in a violation. i wont buzz the tower unless i had a very good friend inside it who will get me out of trouble in case i get into one
     
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  7. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Just remember that controls inverse if you try to do it upside down. ;)
     
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  8. timwinters

    timwinters Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

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    If you buzz a grass strip @ 150kts and your tires are below the tops of the plastic cones then you might be a bit low.

    or so I heard at 6Y9

    I didn't get to see it

    I may have been inside the cockpit but I'm not admittin' to nuttin'

    "wildlife clearing pass"...it's my theory that they have to be done low enough that you knock them out if they're in your way.
     
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  9. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Ask for the option ,low approach.
     
  10. Bill

    Bill Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Negative, Ghostrider, the pattern is full!
     
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  11. RingLaserGyroSandwich

    RingLaserGyroSandwich Pre-takeoff checklist

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    What is it called if you want to request to remain at pattern altitude and remain in the pattern? High approach?
     
  12. dtuuri

    dtuuri En-Route

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    You've BTDT:
     
  13. Peter Ha

    Peter Ha Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Nah, that was failed landing and go-around.
    I'm talking about full-throttle buzzing the runway :)
     
  14. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Pattern Altitude

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    I have an acquaintance that is an aviation lawyer. He has two clients that he is defending from FAA prosecution for doing low passes down the runway. I don't know all the details, but if I were you I'd keep my low passes to a minimum, and don't put them on the internet.

    Also, I heard that people that fly too fast too low to the ground can have their glasses sucked off their faces and out the window.
     
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  15. Peter Ha

    Peter Ha Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Show me the Regs, or your just blah blah blah.
    I'm sure you'll be the one to report my video, right?
     
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  16. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    Go arounds are always an option. Especially after a botched soft-field approach. Seriously though, I don't particularly like buzzing, but teaching sideslip and cross-wind technique in a taildragger majorly benefits from low speed excursions half the length of a nice, long, runway.
     
  17. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Pattern Altitude

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    91.119. The FAA may consider a runway a structure. Or they may not. But you don't want to be on the losing end of that.

    I'm not going to report you, in fact I am all for it!
     
  18. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    I know an experience pilot that got busted for a 200' approach with the San Antonio FSDO because his gear was up and the FAA inspector decided he wasn't "intending to land" and therefore violated the rules on minimum seperation distances. Rules aside, the FAA guys can interpret how they want and its not fun trying to beat them.
     
  19. Peter Ha

    Peter Ha Pre-takeoff checklist

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    If you have a problem with my videos or comments... don't watch or reply. Last I checked, you're not my CFI
     
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  20. danhagan

    danhagan Pattern Altitude

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    You can get around this and have them ASKING you to move in closer. Hit their airspace when they're not too busy and request 'Light gun simulation" ... if their cab is like ours, they probably have window tint AND shades. They'll attempt through the shade the first time and it'll look white to you. they'll LIFT the shades on the next pass and it will STILL LOOK WHITE (did this with my CFI years ago). They kept requesting we move in closer, even the supervisor got on and basically told us to quit being shy and get it in TIGHT! Everyone in the cab wanted to have a go ... we must have done 20 TNGs. We did this and then flew the approach at our non-controlled home field using trim and doors only to short final - best lesson ever just before check ride - sort of a decompress flight.
     
  21. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Pattern Altitude

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    I have zero problem with anything you do, in fact I am all for low passes and watching them on video. I'm just saying that the FAA may not have the same liberal view of such activities.
     
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  22. Initial Fix

    Initial Fix Pre-takeoff checklist

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    A fun low approach takes some practice due to the ground effects. And it’s a skill builder too. Remember to climb first, then bank

    also fun, and good practice, is holding the landing flair with a bit of power down the runway. Full power and climb out to recover. Great practice used to check the runway for critters or obstacles.
     
  23. timwinters

    timwinters Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

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    Peter, Peter, Peter.

    You're going to post a video, really? When you get busted...

    Ha!

    IOW...Peter Ha!!!
     
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  24. Sinistar

    Sinistar En-Route

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    Are you filming it from your plane (same as your other videos)?

    I would recommend a quiet (as in very low traffic) uncontrolled airport. If its a little windy most planes will be parked. Pick a airport that doesn't have any houses around it, especially at the arrival and departure ends. Enter the pattern and land once to get a feel for the place. Then take off, fly a pattern lap. But once you are up at pattern altitude and in the downwind you'll be doing a "low approach" on the specified runway. Announce the base turn as normal. Announce the turn final but add "low approach". But this time no flaps, no carb heat and full throttle. Get down to about 50ft or so. Obviously higher up if you are less comfortable. You will notice one thing as you level off over the runway you'll need more control force as you'll have you highest speed right before you level off. Practice that once at altitude if you haven't already. Not sure what maneuvering speed is in your plane. But you're not supposed to yank the stick back anyways. I've done it a few times in the Skylane. Its just shy of the yellow arc as I pull it back to level. Depending on winds, maybe a whopping 170mph ground speed right as it levels off and will maybe bleed off to 155mph by the time its time to pull up. The fun part is the climb back out. Plan it out, practice at higher altitudes first. Have fun. Its just a low approach. I've never hear that a low approach has a landing speed requirement.
     
  25. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Pattern Altitude

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    I think you should do it inverted, with your glasses off and your flaps down.
     
  26. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    So, flaps retracted?
     
  27. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Pattern Altitude

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    Oh, good catch. Maybe at half way, just to cover all our bases
     
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  28. swingwing

    swingwing Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I bet no one would even notice a 150 at WOT on a low approach. I done it in cessna’s and it really feels fast and cool but watching from the ground it is unimpressive.
     
  29. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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  30. Huckster79

    Huckster79 Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Fly to podunkville and call it a day..
     
  31. idahoflier

    idahoflier Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Wow. I thought people were joking about the feds busting you for low approaches. I guess I'm lucky I didn't get busted last week flying a low approach to check a radio on the ILS. Sad...
     
  32. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    There’s a difference between doing it for an actual operational need, and doing it to be an internet star.

    The real question for Peter is what is his legitimate operational need to add unnecessary risk.

    That’ll be the question the inspector will ask.

    His admonition that nobody here is his CFI really doesn’t matter either. His CFI won’t be PIC during the stunt.

    It’s between him and the FAA inspector assigned to investigate if someone decided to phone in a complaint.

    That said, any CFI worth their salt has had a student fly the length of a runway holding centerline and a few feet off to get their feet contracted to their brain.

    Very common training technique.

    Also very common for the instructor to have to intervene when the student can’t maintain the altitude at first and is bouncing off the runway.

    “Cleared for the option” is the best way to do those. :)

    “Level off here and then land on the fourth paint stripe.”
     
  33. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Pattern Altitude

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    overhead break

    there is also a pancake breakfast in fl that advertises "Do low pass and get a breakfast free" want to guess how many breakfasts Ive paid for?
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
  34. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Other than closed traffic or restricted low approaches at pattern altitude, there’s no official name for it. Navy / Marines use “Delta Pattern” though.
     
  35. wilkersk

    wilkersk Pattern Altitude

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  36. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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  37. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Meh, screw 91.119 and 91.303.

     
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  38. Peter Ha

    Peter Ha Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Those who are critical of my questions... don't bother.
    Wow, and I thought this was a tolerate forum where any pilots can ask ANY questions without being judged, and to ask questions that new students and pilot may have but didn't ask(for fear of being mocked)... well thanks for proving me wrong!
    I'll be sure to keep my "dumb" questions to myself.
     
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  39. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    No one here has said it was a dumb question. You just don’t like the answers to your question because you want to continue to tear it up in your mighty C150. Don’t shoot the messenger.
     
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  40. timwinters

    timwinters Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

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    This forum is very tolerant of questions posed without hubris...and follow ups that display the same attitude.

    you clearly convey the message in this thread that you know everything. So why ask the question?