Buying a used (experimental) airplane?

Dana said:
A&Ps are usually advised to get the repairman certificate anyway, because if something bad happens and the FAA takes action against the person who signed off the condition inspection, only his repairman certificate is at risk and not his A&P certificate.
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Hmmmm... interesting.
 
Grum.Man said:
Sounds to me like you need a Helicopter not an airplane. I think I read you are a student pilot somewhere here on the board, if that is the case you have years and years of flying ahead of you before you should try tackling the type of flying you are talking about. To achieve the numbers these airplanes quote you are flying on the edge of the stall envelope which is no small feat.
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No, he's not even a student yet. But he'll be ready to carry home a 1000 pounds of unsluiced pay dirt in a stol from a 200 foot creek bed after he finishes his 1500 mile solo cross country. How else could he afford to pay his crackerjack attorney to convince the faa he's not flying commercially.

He's been flying cubs since he was a kid, so it'll be easy.
 
Salty said:
No, he's not even a student yet. But he'll be ready to carry home a 1000 pounds of unsluiced pay dirt in a stol from a 200 foot creek bed after he finishes his 1500 mile solo cross country. How else could he afford to pay his crackerjack attorney to convince the faa he's not flying commercially. He's been flying cubs since he was a kid, so it'll be easy.
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Okay... gotta admit, now that's some funny s***t right there I tell ya. :rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Dana said:
A&Ps are usually advised to get the repairman certificate anyway, because if something bad happens and the FAA takes action against the person who signed off the condition inspection, only his repairman certificate is at risk and not his A&P certificate.
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What the??? How does an A&P become the repairman for an E-AB they did not build? Are you talking E-LSA?

Either way... help me through the logic of "I only screwed up as a repairman, but I'm a capable A&P nonetheless."

Where the hell is @Tom-D when we need him?
 
Ravioli said:
How does an A&P become the repairman for an E-AB they did not build?
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The way I understand it is whether an A&P or plain 'ole Joe, the only way to receive a repairman cert for a plane you did not originally build, is to buy it as a "basket case" and re-assemble it and then apply for a new airworthiness cert and re-register it under your own name. :dunno:
 
Your understanding is... incorrect.

There can never be a second repairman certificate for an E-AB. You can't take it apart enough to rebuild it with a new serial number and go to a DAR to be the builder. And if it's kit build, like for example Vans which I know nothing about, they will not ship parts without knowing plane it is going in to and that the person who owns that plane.

It's very different than getting a basket case BSA and getting it back on the road. <- see that motorcycle speak you may understand
 
Ravioli said:
There can never be a second repairman certificate for an E-AB.
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So if the aircraft has been de-registered and is now a basket case. The new owner is not allowed to apply for a repairman cert and start the build process all over again with new registration and airworthiness cert? Is that what you are saying?
 
We can ask a DAR for clarification if you'd like... plenty of them on VAF. But to use the motorcycle example again you aren't changing the VIN, only the registration, and the repairman's certificate goes with the equivalent of the VIN.
 
Ravioli said:
We can ask a DAR for clarification if you'd like... plenty of them on VAF. But to use the motorcycle example again you aren't changing the VIN, only the registration, and the repairman's certificate goes with the equivalent of the VIN.
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Even if the aircraft has been deregistered (basically nullifying the VIN), and the new builder/owner is completing more than 50% of the new build and will need a new airworthiness cert? Just curious is all...
 
Ravioli said:
What the??? How does an A&P become the repairman for an E-AB they did not build? Are you talking E-LSA?
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I was speaking of an aircraft originally built by an A&P. The A&P doesn't need to obtain the repairman certificate to be allowed to do the condition inspection, but he can (and should).

Whether a good or bad thing, I don't think the FAA can take action revoking one certificate for misdeeds done under the authority of a different certificate.
 
The DAR doesn't see the airplane until it's finished. He doesn't know the origin of the parts unless you tell him. If it had a previous identity there's no way to track it. Parts is parts. You'll need a builder log and lots of pictures to prove up on the amateur build. A kit that's approved under the 51% rule makes life simple. Rebuilding a plane from scavenged parts is a little more difficult to document but it is not impossible.
 
It's one thing to land a STOL plane in the first 300' of a 2000' runway, and another to land it in a 300' field. Especially when this field is not an airport and no one keeps the field free of gopher holes, barbed wire, hidden washouts and other hazards. Most plane owners want to protect their investment and don't want to wad it up in some remote place (how do you get rescued). There are pilots that have done these things, and some that have gotten away with it, but it's risky and potentially expensive... They make good stories but do you really want it to happen to you????
 
Before investing more time on here or dreaming or even starting training, you should see if you can get your medical. That would be a terrible bubble to burst after all your aspirations.
 
Ravioli said:
What the??? How does an A&P become the repairman for an E-AB they did not build? Are you talking E-LSA?

Either way... help me through the logic of "I only screwed up as a repairman, but I'm a capable A&P nonetheless."

Where the hell is @Tom-D when we need him?
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right here, but you've got to get my attention, specially in a thread like this one..

1 repairman's certificate per "N" number but an A&P can work on them all. that is what the certificate is for.
 
Dana said:
A&Ps are usually advised to get the repairman certificate anyway, because if something bad happens and the FAA takes action against the person who signed off the condition inspection, only his repairman certificate is at risk and not his A&P certificate.
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im going to say that if you screw up and your repairmans cert is on the line, so would your a&p. the FAA loves the phrase, "any and all certificates".

bob
 
Just to add to the discussion. Remember, you do not have to have built over 50% of the aircraft to apply for repairman status. I'm not sure if you even have to have built any of an amateur built airframe to apply for the repairman certificate providing you can prove to the FAA that you are very very familiar with all aspects of the construction and no one else has gotten the repairman certificate for that airframe before you. Many builds have a multitude of people contributing their skills to the finished product with no individual responsible for more than a fraction of the construction. One person out of the multitude gets to apply and receive the repairman certificate providing he has a grasp of the entire project's construction techniques.
 
Witmo said:
One person out of the multitude gets to apply and receive the repairman certificate providing he has a grasp of the entire project's construction techniques.
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@Witmo I was wondering about that. Take the FX CubCrafter. You spend a couple weeks at the factory, help turn a few wrenches, and presto, you're an amateur experimental airplane builder. ;)
 
azblackbird said:
@Witmo I was wondering about that. Take the FX CubCrafter. You spend a couple weeks at the factory, help turn a few wrenches, and presto, you're an amateur experimental airplane builder. ;)
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People confuse the 51% rule required for E-AB airworthiness certification with the requirements required for the repairman's certificate all of the time. Generally speaking,as long as you are listed as a builder regardless of how much you actually participated in the build you qualify as long as you have the requisite knowledge, as determined by the FSDO. Group builds do this all the time.

However, most of us first-time builders obtain that knowledge through the build process which nesessitates more that just superficial participation.
 
tsts4 said:
However, most of us first-time builders obtain that knowledge through the build process which nesessitates more that just superficial participation.
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Actually if I was going to go the "new" FX route, I'd probably just camp out at the factory and help build the plane as much as they would allow me to do. That would be a blast!
 
azblackbird said:
Actually if I was going to go the "new" FX route, I'd probably just camp out at the factory and help build the plane as much as they would allow me to do. That would be a blast!
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From Glasair's website: "Glasair is one of the largest kitplane manufacturers. Our “Two Weeks To Taxi” program allows you to go from a kit to an airworthy Sportsman in just two weeks!"

http://glasairaviation.com/twtt/

http://glasairaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/3010_TWTT_04_lores1.pdf
 
azblackbird said:
The way I understand it is whether an A&P or plain 'ole Joe, the only way to receive a repairman cert for a plane you did not originally build, is to buy it as a "basket case" and re-assemble it and then apply for a new airworthiness cert and re-register it under your own name. :dunno:
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You'd probably have to play fast and loose filling out the documents you provide the FAA for that approach to work. Personally, I've always assumed the entire EAB world may come crashing down the first time a guy in a pro-built Lancair or Whizz-Bang 6000 crashes into a hospital, nunnery, school, etc. and the media figures out that HE was able to cheat the rules (Look, he lied on his application!!!), therefore everyone else must be cheating too. Then, they use the news cycle to crush EAB.

So if anyone wants an EAB, buy one, build one, whatever you want. But follow the rules. Please.
 
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