Buying a plane from a estate

brien23

brien23

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What do you need in the way of a aircraft bill of sale from a estate the owner is dead.
 
brien23 said:
What do you need in the way of a aircraft bill of sale from a estate the owner is dead.
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You need a bill of sale signed by the executor. You'd also want an "original" Letters Testamentary, which is the document that establishes the legal powers of the executor. Also, I'd want a certified copy of a death certificate. Currently, I'm the executor of 3 estates, and anyone (or any bank) who has purchased something valuable from one of the estates has wanted all 3 of those documents.
 
Tom-D said:
Plus the proof of who is Executor,
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That's the purpose of the "Letters Testamentary." It is the court-issued document evidencing the Executor's authority to act for the estate.
 
In states that are community property the rules change. the best advice is to call OKC registry and ask.
 
Tom-D said:
In states that are community property the rules change. the best advice is to call OKC registry and ask.
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Nothing wrong with calling OKC, but the Executor is the person responsible for determining what is included in the estate, and therefore what the Estate can sell. OKC has no say so in the legal heirs of an estate.
 
The name for the 'Letters Testamentary' can vary by state. It may be called 'Letter of Administration'. If it specifies 'Howie Cheatem, esq AND Lotty Small' make sure the the bill of sale is signed by both.
 
No matter what you call it, the FAA will require proof of who has the authority.
There is another way. There is a fancy name for it, but the local court can assign title, and the FAA must transfer ownership.
 
I bought a plane from an estate. Wife was executor and signed BoS and had a court document showing her as executor. Didn't have death certificate. Registration went thru OKC without issue. That was 12 years ago. Don't know if anything has changed in regs since.
 
Way out of my wheelhouse, but...

One other possibility is the plane's title was held by a trust. In that case, there wouldn't be a court-controlled probate with an "executor," but rather a surviving trustee (spouse), or a "successor trustee." So, you would need a couple of pages from the trust (say the cover sheet, the page with the trustee succession language, and the signature page) to confirm the identify of the successor trustee (e.g. the surviving spouse, or somebody else).
 
And in some States there's no executor at all if the probate is simple. Colorado has the concept of "Personal Representative" which is handled by application to the court for a rubber stamp approval in cases of simple probate where there are no other heirs.

The PR is required to do the typical duties of an official executor, including notification via public methods that a death has taken place and a 90 day waiting period for possible debt requests, but after that has full legal authority to liquidate the estate.

So in the case of a PR, all anyone needs is the PR letter from the court and the PR signs the title "person name, PR dead person name estate" to sell anything they owned.

In other words, just get appropriate legal advice from an attorney in the State of sale. There's all sorts of possible ways a property might change hands in an estate.
 
This is why I advise that the multi ownership be in a LLC. totally a different set of rules
 
denverpilot said:
In other words, just get appropriate legal advice from an attorney in the State of sale. There's all sorts of possible ways a property might change hands in an estate.
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Regardless of you opinion of lawyers, this is probably the best advice.
 
Brad Z said:
Regardless of you opinion of lawyers, this is probably the best advice.
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+1

General rule: If the plane was owned by an individual and that individual is deceased, you need proof of authority of the person you are dealing with to act on behalf of the estate, along with whatever paperwork is necessary for that person to transfer title to you.

Specific rule: Every state has its own rules about how to obtain authority to act on behalf of an estate and how to prove that authority, including what order things have to happen. (For instance, some places require that you get the clerk to issue an authenticated/certified/other official copy of the Letters Testamentary/Letters of Administration that has a date AFTER the date of the document transferring title, to prove that the authority lasted beyond the transfer and did not end the day before just after you got the certified copy.) You can probably figure it out on your own, but it will be faster and probably cheaper to pay an attorney to do it. One thing not to forget is that the person administering the estate probably has a lawyer who is being paid to advise him or her about what's required legally to dispose of the estate's property. So you may not need to hire your own lawyer to get it done right, if the seller is willing to incur the legal fees to get the paperwork in order.
 
Make sure the guy is actually dead.
Seriously.
There was a case here recently where a guy bought a plane from the grief stricken son, after the father tragically died.
Sonny had all the right paperwork.
Turns out the old man wasn't dead. Wasn't even sick. Merely on a long cruise in the South Pacific.
Sonny decided to cash in some of his inheritance early, before Dad could sell it himself. Forged everything, including a death certificate.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Can we make life easier for next of kin by pre-signing an undated application for registration (8050-1) and bill of sale (8050-2)?

http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certifi...cation/aircraft_registry/aircraft_regn_forms/
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Buying it from an estate isn't an onerous burden. And most estates are very happy to work with buyers to sell their "inventory", as that's the job of the executors/administrators/etc. I wouldn't even think of pre-signing a bill of sale. I know the intentions are good, but you do not want to bring on the ire of the court by subverting the system. Just think of the mess that you'd have to unwind if some family member was unhappy with the transaction and ratted everyone out.

Not good.
 
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