Buying a new/used truck

Maxmosbey said:
Does anyone know anything about the Ford Sport Trac? They look like they would be fun,
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A guy I work with loves his. So muchso that he bought a new one last week because Ford is discontinuing the model.
 
I was looking at F-150s the last couple of days, but they are so huge. My wife doesn't want to drive something that big. I don't want an SUV, because I am always hauling stuff like my lawn mower, gas, bikes, generator, tools, compressor, just stuff that I don't want inside my vehicle with me. Nothing huge though. I thought that the Sport Trac might work for me. I'm going to look at one on Tuesday.
 
Just a question for you guys: Why are you looking at new pick-up trucks?

The mark-up on those things is huge, and there are so many "profilers" now (especially down here in Texas!) that you can easily find used trucks with low miles, perfect paint, that have never been used to haul anything.

It seems to me that if you're looking for something to actually haul stuff in/with, the used market is the only way to go.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Just a question for you guys: Why are you looking at new pick-up trucks?

The mark-up on those things is huge, and there are so many "profilers" now (especially down here in Texas!) that you can easily find used trucks with low miles, perfect paint, that have never been used to haul anything.

It seems to me that if you're looking for something to actually haul stuff in/with, the used market is the only way to go.
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Jay, I've been all over the dealerships around here, and a program vehicle with ten or fifteen thousand on it costs almost as much as new. I can only save a couple thousand on one. I hear how much you can save, but it just isn't happening. I started out looking at low mileage used ones, and quit.
 
Maxmosbey said:
Jay, I've been all over the dealerships around here, and a program vehicle with ten or fifteen thousand on it costs almost as much as new. I can only save a couple thousand on one. I hear how much you can save, but it just isn't happening. I started out looking at low mileage used ones, and quit.
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I've noticed the same thing. I normally have bought new vehicles but I heard enough people tell me how much better it is to buy used so one time I did. I found that the amount it depreciated in, say, 5 years was at least as much as if it had been new. The only difference was that the starting price was lower. Another drawback was that it had mechanical problems sooner than if it had been new. After that experience I went back to buying my vehicles new.
 
Everskyward said:
I've noticed the same thing. I normally have bought new vehicles but I heard enough people tell me how much better it is to buy used so one time I did. I found that the amount it depreciated in, say, 5 years was at least as much as if it had been new. The only difference was that the starting price was lower. Another drawback was that it had mechanical problems sooner than if it had been new. After that experience I went back to buying my vehicles new.
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Right now Chevy and Ford are both running incentives around $4500 to $5000. A program vehicle a year old with ten to fifteen thousand is around $3000 below what they are asking for new. When you do the math, with the incentives, I can walk off the lot with a new vehicle cheaper than I can walk off the lot with a used vehicle. Anyway that has been the way is is this last week. I'm open to a used vehicle, but I'm not paying more than new for it.
 
Take the initiative. "I'll give you $12k and my truck". Now he just screwed himself and is going to have to come back with something on the low end. When ever they don't want to come up with a real price, then I get to set the opening numbers. If you have Edmunds and the Black Book, you have the information available to you to calculate what deal you can get. BTW, your Dakota is low mile so he has the ability to move it.

I'm guessing the real deal you'll be able to write on a Silverado at that sticker with a trade in of your truck is going to be around a $20k difference.
 
Maxmosbey said:
Right now Chevy and Ford are both running incentives around $4500 to $5000. A program vehicle a year old with ten to fifteen thousand is around $3000 below what they are asking for new. When you do the math, with the incentives, I can walk off the lot with a new vehicle cheaper than I can walk off the lot with a used vehicle. Anyway that has been the way is is this last week. I'm open to a used vehicle, but I'm not paying more than new for it.
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Year old at a dealer is going to be tough. They'd rather you buy the new one. Try looking about 3-5 years older, private party, and you'll save a boat load. Map out the purchase cost and depreciation curve for the vehicle new and several years old. It'll be different for every manufacturer / model but will help show you the sweet spot where you'll save the most money. Now perhaps it's not all about saving the most money to you and you simply want something new. That's fine too.
 
jesse said:
Year old at a dealer is going to be tough. They'd rather you buy the new one. Try looking about 3-5 years older, private party, and you'll save a boat load. Map out the purchase cost and depreciation curve for the vehicle new and several years old. It'll be different for every manufacturer / model but will help show you the sweet spot where you'll save the most money. Now perhaps it's not all about saving the most money to you and you simply want something new. That's fine too.
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I already have a truck that is 5 years old, and I don't want to buy two more years. If I were going to do that, I would just drive the Dakota until it dies. That still might be an option. I don't need a new truck, I just want a new truck. If I was backed against the wall, I think that your advise is sound. To me, new is no more than a year old, and no more than 15,000 miles. That is pushing it on the miles.It doesn't have to be brand new, but brand new, off the lot, is in that range. So far, brand new is my least expensive option. I also don't want the cheapest truck on the lot. I want a nice truck.
 
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Henning said:
Take the initiative. "I'll give you $12k and my truck". Now he just screwed himself and is going to have to come back with something on the low end. When ever they don't want to come up with a real price, then I get to set the opening numbers. If you have Edmunds and the Black Book, you have the information available to you to calculate what deal you can get. BTW, your Dakota is low mile so he has the ability to move it.

I'm guessing the real deal you'll be able to write on a Silverado at that sticker with a trade in of your truck is going to be around a $20k difference.
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Good plan and I think that your numbers are probably right, but I didn't really like the Silverado. It just didn't talk to me. Actually, I was looking at Ford F-150s, and they weren't talking to me either, but then I saw a Ford Sport Trac and it is talking to me a little. I am leaning toward Fords, for a couple of reasons, so if I get a new one, it could very well be a Ford. I have not bought a vehicle for a while, so I'm learning what options are on the market and trying to make up my mind which ones are important to me. I think that I can get a pretty good deal on a Ford, but money is not going to be the only thing. I don't buy something just because it is cheaper than the next guy. I'm liking what I see on the Ford lot. I'm still looking though. I'm in no big hurry.
 
Maxmosbey said:
I already have a truck that is 5 years old, and I don't want to buy two more years. If I were going to do that, I would just drive the Dakota until it dies. That still might be an option. I don't need a new truck, I want a new truck. To me, new is no more than a year old, and no more than 15,000 miles. That is pushing it on the miles.It doesn't have to be brand new, but brand new, off the lot, is in that range. So far, brand new is my least expensive option. I also don't want the cheapest truck on the lot. I want a nice truck.
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It's all relative I guess. To me, 5 years is new, because I don't buy vehicles brand new. I do most maintenance myself and spend little doing so. As a result, transportation makes up a very small part of my budget.

No problem with liking something that is new. It's just not for me since I don't fall in love with vehicles and like to be as cost effective as I can.
 
jesse said:
It's all relative I guess. To me, 5 years is new, because I don't buy vehicles brand new. I do most maintenance myself and spend little doing so. As a result, transportation makes up a very small part of my budget.

No problem with liking something that is new. It's just not for me since I don't fall in love with vehicles and like to be as cost effective as I can.
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You sound like my wife. She is wondering why I want to trade in a perfectly good vehicle with only 75,000 miles and spend money for a new one. When I was younger I was a lot like you. I changed my own oil, did my own brake jobs, installed new ball joints, I saved a lot of money doing that stuff myself. I even used to buy a vehicle based on how much money it would cost me to fix it all up. I'm a little older now, and I don't do a lot of my own repairs and upkeep. You'll be that way some day. :D I would rather buy something with a warranty.
 
jesse said:
No problem with liking something that is new. It's just not for me since I don't fall in love with vehicles and like to be as cost effective as I can.
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For me it's not about so much about being cost effective or falling in love with my vehicles. I just want them to work and I don't want to spend any time either fixing them or modifying them. My Subaru is just about the same way it was when I drove it off the lot 7 years ago. I think the only things I've replaced are the windshield and tires. When things start to go wrong with it I'll think really hard about getting something new.
 
Everskyward said:
My Subaru is just about the same way it was when I drove it off the lot 7 years ago. I think the only things I've replaced are the windshield and tires. When things start to go wrong with it I'll think really hard about getting something new.
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Which might be a while. My Subaru is 11 years old, and has 170,000 miles on it. So far I also have only replaced windshields and tires...knock on wood. I hope to get another 100,000 out of it.
 
Everskyward said:
For me it's not about so much about being cost effective or falling in love with my vehicles. I just want them to work and I don't want to spend any time either fixing them or modifying them. My Subaru is just about the same way it was when I drove it off the lot 7 years ago. I think the only things I've replaced are the windshield and tires. When things start to go wrong with it I'll think really hard about getting something new.
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The newest vehicle I've ever bought was 6 years old. I've never broke down on the road and the amount of maintenance I do in a year is very negligible, few hundred dollars and a hour or two (including oil changes). I've probably gotten lucky so far.

I've owned three vehicles so far.

In 2003: Bought 1989 Dodge Dakota for $1200. Rear end went out after 1.5 years. Was able to drive it home. Sold it for $300 to some guy.
In 2004: Bought 1998 Pontiac Sunfire for $3500. Owned it for 6 years. Put over 120,000 miles on it. Replaced brake pads, swapped tires, spark plug wires, and quit changing the oil in like 2008. Gave it to family. It's still running. No maintenance since I gave it away.
In 2010: Bought 1998 Chrysler Concorde for $500. Bought a new tire when I crashed into a curb and have changed the oil twice.

I've been watching Craig's list in the tri-state area looking for a nice 4x4 truck for less than $1500. I might find one someday. I'm patient :)
 
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stagecoachco said:
Which might be a while. My Subaru is 11 years old, and has 170,000 miles on it. So far I also have only replaced windshields and tires...knock on wood. I hope to get another 100,000 out of it.
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No kidding that is the problem I have with my 89 Jeep Commanche, I am still waiting for something serious to break so I can justify replacing it. But is just rolled over 260,000 miles and I have been driving it for 17 years it has been paid for for 15 years.

I keep thinking I need to upgrade but then I look at my total annual maintenance bills that are less than one new car payment and decide to keep driving it until it gives me a reason to do something different.

Brian
 
I'm down to a Ford F-150 vs a Chevy Silverado. I like them both, but I can't have them both. I like the fit and feel of the Ford. It is nice. The Silverado has more bells and whistles and it gets better gas mileage. At least according to the sticker the Silverado gets better mileage. They are within $600 of each other. Bells and whistles are good. I'm not a bare bones kind of guy, but there is a limit to that. I don't need leather interior and heated seats. At the same time, things can go wrong with bells and whistles, and the more of them there are, the more chances of something going wrong. I'm just sitting here waiting for something to speak to me.
 
Maxmosbey said:
I'm down to a Ford F-150 vs a Chevy Silverado. I like them both, but I can't have them both. I like the fit and feel of the Ford. It is nice. The Silverado has more bells and whistles and it gets better gas mileage. At least according to the sticker the Silverado gets better mileage. They are within $600 of each other. Bells and whistles are good. I'm not a bare bones kind of guy, but there is a limit to that. I don't need leather interior and heated seats. At the same time, things can go wrong with bells and whistles, and the more of them there are, the more chances of something going wrong. I'm just sitting here waiting for something to speak to me.
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Have you ever had heated seats in Iowa!? Oh man... SOOOO nice. My parents' Honda Pilot has them - definitely a nice feature to have 4 months out of the year. ;)

My family has always been Chevy. Not sure why, just one of those things - granddad and dad always had Chevy's for farm trucks, so I guess it just stuck.

Good luck and make sure to post pics of what you end up with!
 
Maxmosbey said:
I'm down to a Ford F-150 vs a Chevy Silverado. I like them both, but I can't have them both. I like the fit and feel of the Ford. It is nice. The Silverado has more bells and whistles and it gets better gas mileage. At least according to the sticker the Silverado gets better mileage. They are within $600 of each other. Bells and whistles are good. I'm not a bare bones kind of guy, but there is a limit to that. I don't need leather interior and heated seats. At the same time, things can go wrong with bells and whistles, and the more of them there are, the more chances of something going wrong. I'm just sitting here waiting for something to speak to me.
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Leather seats in a truck?

'nuff said.
 
Bob Noel said:
Leather seats in a truck?

'nuff said.
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My father-in-law bought a Honda Ridgeline. He had it two years and traded it off for exactly the same truck, except it was new of course, and it had leather heated seats. Actually, at our house the truck is not a work vehicle. Our other vehicle is a turbo charged Solstice. It does have a leather interior. It holds two people, provided neither is too much over weight, and a light jacket each. Especially if you want to put the top down. There is no room for anything else. Anyway, if we are want to take the kids, friends, or it is between Thanksgiving and April fools day, we take the truck. For that reason we like a few of the luxuries and the truck doesn't get dirty, inside or outside.
 
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The dodge woes continue. I need a new turbo. 3 years, 61,000 miles, second turbo. At least it's under warranty. The first one was covered under one of the (at least) 1/2 dozen recalls this truck's had.
 
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timwinters said:
The dodge woes continue. I need a new turbo. 3 years, 61,000 miles, second turbo. At least it's under warranty. The first one was covered under one of the (at least) 1/2 dozen recalls this truck's had.
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This is especially galling, inasmuch as the engine is entirely a Cummings unit (including the turbo), known for its durability and robustness. Client of mine has over 300k on his, and all he does is change the oil.
 
I've owned Chevys, Fords, and Dodges (with the Cummins). The Dodge was a good truck, but I only owned it for two years and 108,000 miles. In that time period the only things I ever changed on it were fluids and the serpentine belt (changed that at 100,000 miles).

The two Chevys I had were great. My '97 finally threw a rod on the 6.5 at 173,000 miles, but it always had a rod knock. My '95 Suburban had a 454, at 214,000 miles the 454 still worked great, and the 4L80-E was still shifting great as well. The transfer case seemed the weak point.

My Ford I think is my favorite. The Chevy is probably a better truck for several reasons. The Ford (an Excursion, which is basically an F-250) has a permanent exhaust leak, caused by a problem with exhaust studs snapping and exascerbated by my failed attempt at removing said snapped exhaust studs. I've accepted this and moved on with life. Otherwise, at 140k it needs the front end rebuilt and eats through brakes routinely. I haven't had problems with it. At 200k the Chevy was pretty much done and I had replaced a lot of parts on it that were pretty much dead.

My intention is to keep the Ford until it starts needing too much of my time to keep going. For now, I've had it for three years and put 50,000 miles on it, and including purchase price, insurance, and all maintenance has cost me less than $10,000 (I bought it when gas was over $4/gallon and everyone was panicing). It's pretty hard to argue with that, especially since I could probably sell it for close to that. I wouldn't pay the prices they're asking these days for new trucks, it just costs way too much.

I understand why a lot of people buy new vehicles. Personally, I wouldn't. My uncle used to tell me that cars stopped being reliable after 70,000 miles. I've only ever owned one vehicle with less than 70,000 miles, that was the Dodge (which I bought new). I later realized that it wasn't that the cars stopped being reliable, it was that my uncle was just that hard on his cars.

As to what you should buy, Max, beats me. My personal biases would say to either keep what you have or buy the F-150. It and the Chevy are both going to be good trucks, but I never like something until it's at least 5 years old. Luddite in me, I guess.
 
I bought the Chevy this morning. I was really torn between the Chevy and the Ford. The Tundra and the Dodge never had a chance although I looked at both of them. The Chevy ended up costing me a little more than the Ford would have. It had a few more options that I liked. Probably the deal breaker was that the Ford had a 4H and 4L . The Chevy had both of those settings, but it also had an auto mode that allowed the truck to determine the surface conditions and apply four wheel drive accordingly. I like having that option. The second thing is Stabilitrac. My wife's car has Stabilitrac, and it really works. The price of both the Chevy and the Ford were close, within five hundred dollars. I got the Chevy dealer to throw in a brake controller for the trailer, and running boards so that my wife can get in easier. It is also the same color as my wife's Solstice. The Ford came with the running boards and they were going to throw in the controller. I really liked the Ford. It felt good. It was very hard to decide. It was kind of fun though. I don't think that I have ever spent more than two days thinking about it when I have bought a vehicle in the past. I spent three weeks on this one, probably drove a half dozen trucks, and sat in more than I can remember. One thing before I leave this thread and let it move down to the next page. At both the Chevy dealership and one of the Ford dealerships, I had them give me a price on both a new vehicle and a program vehicle. The program vehicles were both low mileage and a year old. In both cases the new trucks could be had for within four hundred to eleven hundred dollars respectively of the used ones once it was all penciled out. Not even enough to make me buy the used one Right now, both Ford and Chevy are trying to get their new 2010s off the lots. There are huge incentives on the 2010s. That is why you can buy a new truck cheaper than a used one right now. Thanks everyone who offered me advise. I appreciate it. Really.

Max
 
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Funny thing is, when I buy a vehicle typically I decide what I want, go on eBay, and buy it. I rarely search for more than a day or two, typically I purchase it within a few hours of deciding. Worked out pretty well for me overall.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Funny thing is, when I buy a vehicle typically I decide what I want, go on eBay, and buy it. I rarely search for more than a day or two, typically I purchase it within a few hours of deciding. Worked out pretty well for me overall.
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The trick is figuring out what you want.
 
Bob Noel said:
The trick is figuring out what you want.
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That can be the hard part. Being a recovering car guy, I've got a very long list of vehicles on the list of "things I want." So when it's time to buy another car, I usually figure what's next on the list that I can buy for what I'm willing to pay, and then go for it.
 
alaskaflyer said:
Chevys have tie rods about as strong as peppermint sticks. Don't bounce it off rocks too much.
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The worst it is going to get in that department is ten feet into a picked corn field to take me pheasant hunting. In Iowa 4 wheel drive means snow. At least for most Iowans. We don't have rocks big enough to "bounce" off of.:D Thanks though.
 
Maxmosbey said:
You sound like my wife. She is wondering why I want to trade in a perfectly good vehicle with only 75,000 miles and spend money for a new one. When I was younger I was a lot like you. I changed my own oil, did my own brake jobs, installed new ball joints, I saved a lot of money doing that stuff myself. I even used to buy a vehicle based on how much money it would cost me to fix it all up. I'm a little older now, and I don't do a lot of my own repairs and upkeep. You'll be that way some day. :D I would rather buy something with a warranty.
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First, you have to decide if you want to try to make economic sense out of this, or just buy something because you like it. If you want to make economic sense, let your trailer pulling needs dictate the truck specs, then buy used via Auto Trader or Ebay. Be prepared to go to Kansas City, Omaha or Minneapolis to get the best deal (but you can make the deal by computer or phone, you just have to go there to close the deal). You won't get a good price buying in central Iowa, there aren't enough dealers to make a competitive environment. For everyone that loves/hates a Dodge, there's someone that loves/hates Fords or Chevys or Toyotas. If you want to drive something for a long time, buy a 3/4 ton over a 1/2 ton. Your kidneys will pay for it, but a 3/4 ton will live longer than a 1/2 ton.
 
Trapper John said:
First, you have to decide if you want to try to make economic sense out of this, or just buy something because you like it. If you want to make economic sense, let your trailer pulling needs dictate the truck specs, then buy used via Auto Trader or Ebay. Be prepared to go to Kansas City, Omaha or Minneapolis to get the best deal (but you can make the deal by computer or phone, you just have to go there to close the deal). You won't get a good price buying in central Iowa, there aren't enough dealers to make a competitive environment. For everyone that loves/hates a Dodge, there's someone that loves/hates Fords or Chevys or Toyotas. If you want to drive something for a long time, buy a 3/4 ton over a 1/2 ton. Your kidneys will pay for it, but a 3/4 ton will live longer than a 1/2 ton.
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Read #64
 
Maxmosbey said:
Read #64
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Enjoy your Chevy. The LS-series engines are really really good, as is the 6L80e transmission. A bonus is you can get a power programmer from Superchips if you get frisky and want to wear out your tires. A couple of minutes with laptop and a USB to OBDII cable beats a day of swapping jets, metering rods and playing with distributor weights and springs...
 
Referencing my first three refuelings of the 2007 F-150(46,650 miles at purchase) I calculated 16.67mpg, 17.3, and 16.9mpg. That was all local area driving and doesn't seem too bad for the small V8 engine. It's STX 4 x 4, cloth seats, manual windows, sprayed bed-liner; and should be ready from the signage company in a couple days(pictures, later).

HR
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Blatant commercial video

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Pretty impressive but it's not like anyone would ever do that to a truck.

When I go shopping later this year, I'll be looking at three out of those four. The truck that I judge will be the most comfortable on a 6 to 8 hour drive will win. Everything else is secondary. I'll pull a trailer maybe 10 times a year. I'll go over a course like is in this video (at those high rates of speed) never. I'll have it locked into 4x4 maybe two dozen times a year. I'll frequently fill the bed but seldon push the weight envelope. But on average I'll go on 4 hour road trips twice a week and 8 hour road trips twice a month.

Ride is #1 for my needs. It can be built ford tough but if it ain't comfortable like an easy chair then it'll be staying on the lot.
 
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gprellwitz said:
It's too late now, but did you look at whether the Ford program with EAA (http://www.eaa.org/ford/) would save anything, or is it pretty much meaningless?
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I had someone offer me the X plan for the Ford. I think that it is probably the best deal that I could get on a Ford. I found that there is a lot of variables when it comes to the bottom line. A $38,000 truck can drop to $25,000 in the first visit. There are so many incentives out there right now on the 2010 trucks. The Chevy and the Ford came close to each other when it got down to the bottom line. Close in that less than a thousand dollars. When it comes to the bottom line, money is important, but I'm not looking for the cheapest ride. If I were, I could have gotten a bare bones truck instead. I paid a little more for the Chevy than I would have had to pay for the Ford. The Chevy had several upgrades that I liked. The real bottom line is that I took my time and got exactly what I wanted.
 
One question that someone might know the answer. When it got down to the end, the Chevy dealer agreed to throw in running boards, change the brake controller over from the Dodge to the Chevy, and knock a couple of hundred dollars from the bottom line. They had already offered me $4000 more than Edmunds and Kelly Blue Book valued my Dodge Dakota for trade, which really surprised me the first day. So when I went to pay up, the invoice showed that they were charging me for those extras up front, but they added that amount, including the couple hundred dollars that they went down in the end, to my trade in. Why did they do that?
 
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Maxmosbey said:
One question that someone might know the answer. When it got down to the end, the Chevy dealer agreed to throw in running boards, change the brake controller over from the Dodge to the Chevy, and knock a couple of hundred dollars from the bottom line. They had already offered me $4000 more than Edmunds and Kelly Blue Book valued my Dodge Dakota for trade, which really surprised me the first day. So when I went to pay up, the invoice showed that they were charging me for those extras up front, but they added that amount, including the couple hundred dollars that they went down in the end, to my trade in. Why did they do that?
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Dunno. Tax issues?
 
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