Buyer Beware when using Aviation Seminars

Cld9

Filing Flight Plan
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Cld9
My FIRC classroom was recently canceled with Aviation Seminars. They emailed me that I could do the online course and that they would credit me the difference of $224.
It has been 1 month of trying to get a response from the owner to get my credit processed. I still have not gotten it, and by my research, probably never will. I have found many others, like me, who were promised refunds and never got them.
It is reprehensible to me that a seemingly legitimate company can do this to pilots.
 
Dispute it with your credit card company.
Just wanted to repeat this. "Service not delivered".

That's one of the main reasons I use credit cards for almost everything. In many many years, I have only had to dispute a handful of charges, and they all went my way.
 
My FIRC classroom was recently canceled with Aviation Seminars. They emailed me that I could do the online course and that they would credit me the difference of $224.
It has been 1 month of trying to get a response from the owner to get my credit processed. I still have not gotten it, and by my research, probably never will. I have found many others, like me, who were promised refunds and never got them.
It is reprehensible to me that a seemingly legitimate company can do this to pilots.

I don't know this particular outfit, but there are many legitimate companies offering FIRC. I did Gleim for many years, and recently I switched to Sporty's because it was free. But I feel bad using their great product and not paying for it, so I buy something from Sporty's just to give something back.

Regarding credit card disputes, I've had card companies tell me that if I voluntarily gave my card number to a vendor, then it is a legitimate transaction, even if I received a bad product or no product at all. A fraud is when someone charges your card without your consent.
 
Regarding credit card disputes, I've had card companies tell me that if I voluntarily gave my card number to a vendor, then it is a legitimate transaction, even if I received a bad product or no product at all. A fraud is when someone charges your card without your consent.
That's surprising. I've probably done 10 chargebacks over the years and never had one denied.
 
Regarding credit card disputes, I've had card companies tell me that if I voluntarily gave my card number to a vendor, then it is a legitimate transaction, even if I received a bad product or no product at all. A fraud is when someone charges your card without your consent.
They lied to you, unless perhaps you are talking about debit cards and not credit cards.
 
Just wanted to repeat this. "Service not delivered".

That's one of the main reasons I use credit cards for almost everything. In many many years, I have only had to dispute a handful of charges, and they all went my way.
I once bought lobster in Georgia having never been to Georgia. They still didn't reverse the charge until I appealed the resolution.
 
Seminars provide the course presentation and contracts with local instructors who provide the classroom and are paid per student. The course is advertised, fees collected, and the instructor gets a student list. There is a enrollment minimum and when enough students don’t enroll for a date, the class is cancelled. Unless it’s been updated, the course historically was far from the best quality and was basically a test question explanation and review.
 
I once bought lobster in Georgia having never been to Georgia. They still didn't reverse the charge until I appealed the resolution.
This is a variable between card providers (bank). I have never had an issue getting a charge reversed without appeal.
 
I don't know this particular outfit, but there are many legitimate companies offering FIRC
Aviation Seminars is a legit company that has been in this business for decades. I don't know how long, but I first used their live program for my private written in 1990. (My instrument rating and commercial too.)

Yes plenty of others but not that many doing live FIRCs these days.

Yeah, I’d be disputing the charge with my credit card company.
 
Aviation Seminars is a legit company that has been in this business for decades. I don't know how long, but I first used their live program for my private written in 1990.
I’m pretty Aviation Seminars is who conducted the FIRCs my dad attended in the ‘70s.
 
I’m pretty Aviation Seminars is who conducted the FIRCs my dad attended in the ‘70s.
I wouldn't doubt it. They were pretty well established when I used them for the knowledge tests. They were probably among the first authorized when the FAA initiated the FIRC program.
 
My FIRC classroom was recently canceled with Aviation Seminars. They emailed me that I could do the online course and that they would credit me the difference of $224.
It has been 1 month of trying to get a response from the owner to get my credit processed. I still have not gotten it, and by my research, probably never will. I have found many others, like me, who were promised refunds and never got them.
It is reprehensible to me that a seemingly legitimate company can do this to pilots.
Edit: forgot Disclaimer: I’m not your attorney, this is not legal advice, this is a casual conversation. I can’t be held liable for anything that happens. If you have any concerns, I strongly encourage you to consult with an attorney (preferably one in San Diego County) before pursing any legal remedies.

Threaten to file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau (BBB), give them a week to respond and then actually do it.

If that doesn't work, threaten to go small claims court, give them a week to respond and then actually start the filing process. San Diego County has a free mediation service, where a third party will decide your case. Be aware that mediation isn't binding, so whoever loses can still elect to go to small claims court. In cases like this, this outcome is very unlikely. You have 3-4 years to start the filing process in California for a theft/fraud/breach of contract case after this behavior was discovered, so make sure to save screenshots of all of the emails. San Diego County has a free small claims court legal advisor, give them a call if you ever need help filing: 1(858) 634-1700 (Monday-Friday, 8:30 AM - 12:30 PM, 1:30 PM - 4:30 PM). For a simple case like this, you could probably file the case and submit all of the evidence over a long weekend. You'll have to find someone who can serve Aviation Seminars, which will typically cost between $50-$100 if hiring a professional process server. Despite the cost, I would highly encourage you to hire a professional (see the Bricks and Minifigs/Reckless Ben case for why that's important). Besides this, you'll have to figure out who to serve, see Form SC-104C for that (though this is usually handled by the process server). Once properly served, Aviation Seminars has 30 days (180 days if improperly served) to file a motion. If they fail to do so, you can file a motion for default judgment, which means the judge can decide that you win without you ever having to appear in court. This is the most likely outcome when dealing with large companies, they're usually not too eager to go to court over $224 even if they somehow let it get this far. In the event that they actually want to go to court with you over this, I believe you can opt for a virtual hearing in San Diego County if you provide sufficient notice to the court. In that event, you just have to appear on Zoom, Teams, or whatever and explain your side of things. Cases like this typically last under an hour.

That's it! I understand this can seem like a daunting process, but keep in mind that firstly there is less than 5% chance that Aviation Seminars lets it get to this point. Secondly, this entire process takes months, so in reality, you'll only be spending 1-2 hours on this every few days/weeks. The most annoying part is the filing process and submitting all of the evidence, which should be fairly manageable for a case of this magnitude. Remember the best part is that you can't hire a lawyer or anyone else (except the process server). Your profit will be $224 if Aviation Seminars can handle this properly or $124-174 if Aviation Seminars continues ignoring you to the bitter end. There are a lot of articles on the Small Claims Court Process in San Diego County that are likely more informative than my post and I strongly encourage you to look them over.

Whatever you decide, best of luck!!
 
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