Kevin16587
Pre-takeoff checklist
I've never met a police officer that made anybody complete an FAA report, but whatever.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Breathalyzer "not admissible in court" -- say what???
- Thread starter AggieMike88
- Start date
I've never met a police officer that made anybody complete an FAA report, but whatever.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ircphoenix
En-Route
If I'm manning a checkpoint and I have you pull up and give me your little card and DL, and I don't have any reasonable suspicion, I'm going to roll my eyes and tell you to have a nice night, simple as that. Because I don't really care if you're nice or not. I'm there looking for drunks, and if you're not, well... Bye.
Not advocating otherwise here.
Nowhere in the Constitution does it say you have to be nice. Or polite for that matter. To anyone. You don't have to talk to the police. You can exercise your rights all day long, provided you are actually familiar with your rights and you don't just *think* you are. Many people think they know, and that's what gets them into trouble.
I'm just saying from a personal perspective I'd rather be friendly than hand over a card that says "I refuse to answer questions, because it's my right." It's absolutely your right. Have fun feeling superior if that's what it does for you. But it's still kind of a dick move on the human level. But again, that's your right.
comanchepilot
En-Route
Then you don't know shlt about being a pilot or a cop. [sorry for the snide comment]
An ARREST for an alcohol related event, which is a DUI, is an FAA reportable event. Even if, as you say, the prosecutor drops the charges for lack of evidence.
comanchepilot
En-Route
But you're not acting as a human being - you are acting as the agent of the state. Which certainly is not human and does not give a crap about me or you.
I meet you in fast food restaurant in uniform on duty, I'm gonna buy your meal. I meet you on the side of the road - its a professional encounter. You are not my friend or my buddy.
You gotta deal with idiots who don't know their rights every day - so do I. Does it seem like I don't?
You decide you're gonna do a tap dance on my head on duty - I'm not gonna stop you. I exercised my rights in an appropriate manner. You decided you're gonna search me or my vehicle, arrest me to **** me off, detain me for the drug dog - whatever. You the man. You got the gun and friends with guns. You're gonna do what you're gonna do. It's not the place to argue over it. But I know where that place is.
No one is gonna be mean, or rude, or even impolite. No reason to be. Everyone has a job to do.
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
Good grief.... this has become as interesting as two old ladies arguing over meatloaf recipes.....
ircphoenix
En-Route
Fair enough.
ircphoenix
En-Route
Pfffffft. @comanchepilot and I had a reasonable discussion without calling each other names or saying the other was an idiot. Seems like we're setting a good example for the rest of you uncouth heathens. =D
Kevin16587
Pre-takeoff checklist
I'm both a competent pilot (still pretty new) and an even more competent officer (not new). I'm aware that a DUI is a reportable offense to the FAA. I filled out the same paperwork you did when I got my medical. I won't comment about the FAA criteria or reason to hold that against you if you aren't convicted of a DUI. I don't know anything about that stuff.
The FAA is a regulatory agency by design. There are no FAA cops that will write you a ticket if they witness you flying unsafely. Under rare circumstances, an FAA representative will call the local law enforcement agency to cite a pilot for a FAR violation. I've heard of it happening, but never met an officer that wrote a ticket for a FAR violation. That's why I made the comment I did.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
denverpilot
Tied Down
Nice dodge but you need to be very aware your actions have consequences far beyond your job in the real world. An arrest of an innocent person can lead directly to job loss in a significant number of jobs.
I've got friends who have to take a polygraph if they get so much as a speeding ticket. Those same friends would be instantly suspended from work with an arrest. Doesn't matter if they're found innocent, they're off the job instantly.
Dodge and weave, but your story about your LE friend who shot himself is the perfect example of everyone "doing their job" to an innocent person until they killed themselves.
Give everyone a pat on the back and a freaking Gold Star for that one. Super job.
Doesn't even matter what the guy's job was, he could've been a dentist for all it mattered to your story. The system screwed that guy.
He'd have at LEAST been able to fight if he'd have shut up about taking a legal prescription drug and when. Someone would have had to work harder to prove if and when, and he handed the information over willingly.
His right was to shut up. Completely. He didn't exercise it and lowered his chances of a successful defense. *Everything* you say to LE, lowers your chance of a successful defense.
I'm pro LE. I was a dispatcher. I have friends who are LE. I'll never do their job for them by running my mouth unless I CHOOSE to incriminate myself. And I did in my story above. I was willing to take that rap. But it's my decision.
And LE doesn't get to whine if I won't make their case for them. Well they do get to whine, but anyone smart will simply choose to ignore the whining. Oh bummer, your job is tough. Let me dig out my tiny violin and play a concert for you.
comanchepilot
En-Route
I agree. We are discussing facts and law and jobs and attitudes.
And as for my comment about the FAA - like I said I'm sorry for the sarcasm - but it does show you are doing your job. The consequences be damned - at least for me. It's how the system works.
We disagree perhaps about how you're coming at it - you do what you are told within the meaning the law as it is explained to you. You know more about what you do than I - and vice versa. There is ZERO reason to call anyone a name or an idiot. We're not idiots- were just coming at the encounter from two different perspectives.
As both @Kevin16587 and @ircphoenix have noted - they have to deal with roadside lawyers all the time. Most people [esp if they're intoxicated] get loud and obnoxious and lack judgement - others are like that all the time. However, I'd bet 99% of the people LEO encounter lack even a basic understanding of their rights on the side of the road [damn few]. I bet even most of the lawyers would get it wrong. Every area of the law has some specialization. Then you have what people 'think' or 'believe' it to be.
Look at the abuse Gen. Flynn is getting for even suggesting that immunity is a necessity to testify. Anyone who speaks to a police officer who is conducting an investigation without an attorney present is responsible for their own conviction. End of story. It'ss not about being nice, or decent or anything other than polite. A polite no thank you.
comanchepilot
En-Route
I will leave with just one last comment - its not beholden on moi to prove myself innocent. That's not how any of this works. . . . No matter what, even if I am innocent, I am not making your job easier!
Kevin16587
Pre-takeoff checklist
I had a moment to organize my thoughts while waiting for my daughter at the dentist and the conversation is starting to go the way I was hoping.
I think some of you are making this way more complicated than it is. There seems to be a confusion between the perception that it's "cops vs citizens" and basic human interaction. I don't have a psychology background so maybe an expert can weigh in.
If a human encounters atypical behavior, they will respond with atypical behavior. For example, if I'm meeting you for the first time and I spit on my hand before extending it to shake yours, you will most likely pull your hand back and have a negative response. Our encounter will be awkward at the least. Someone spitting on their hand before shaking yours is unusual. Likewise, a person invoking their right to remain silent during a "routine" law enforcement contact is atypical. Like it or not, but most people contacted by law enforcement go with the program. Many lie or provide false info, but very few invoke their rights and stay quiet. I can probably count on one hand the number of people that have during my 16 years. So, that atypical behavior is naturally going to provoke a response from the officer that could be perceived as negative. You might see it as a power trip, but I think it's more primal than that. During normal human interaction conversation goes back and forth between people. When one of the parties isn't participating in the conversation, it could come across as being rude.
You mentioned being an agent of the state and not acting as a human being. Please tell me how a human is not supposed to act like a human? Officers are humans first and humans are not perfect beings. All of the training in the world can't change that. Your expectation of having a bunch of robotic, emotionless officers out there is not realistic nor would it be healthy for society. I have to rely on empathy and act as a counselor WAY more often than I have to act as a robot when somebody invokes their right to remain silent.
Please continue to do what you are doing. Law enforcement needs a good challenge every now and then. But please remember that officers are human with human behaviors.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited:
RJM62
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2007
- Messages
- 13,157
- Location
- Upstate New York
- Display Name
Display name:
Geek on the Hill
As I said earlier, I cooperate because it's the path of least resistance. I suppose I also do it because I actually like cops and haven't come across any who were anything other than professional toward me. I see no gain in making their lives or my own any more difficult. Even if the roadblock placement is utterly idiotic in view of the traffic delays and disruption it causes, it almost certainly was not the officer standing outside my car who decided to set it up there.
My gripe is against the practice itself, not the poor schlub whose job it is to implement it.
Rich
My gripe is against the practice itself, not the poor schlub whose job it is to implement it.
Rich
Kevin16587
Pre-takeoff checklist
The story about my friend was only in response to a statement that law enforcement officers are always innocent. Nothing more. Don't read into it.
My friend was put through what he was BECAUSE he was an officer. A plumber in the exact situation would have never been put through that. I get it, officers are held to a higher standard but come on. How many people here have had the media show your picture on the news for weeks, knock on your door and talk to your kids, get statements from your employer, all because of a silly sleeping pill DUI?
Pilots are one of the few professions I can think of that come close. One of my partners arrested a regional pilot for DUI one time. The guy was in tears the whole time. I hated him for putting us in that situation because I knew what it meant for his career. But he never ended up on the news.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RJM62
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2007
- Messages
- 13,157
- Location
- Upstate New York
- Display Name
Display name:
Geek on the Hill
To add an amusing anecdote...
A few years ago, I was stopped by a State Trooper at Hancock, New York after coming over the bridge from PA. At the time, cigarette taxes in PA were much lower than in New York, so a lot of New Yorkers bought them there rather than here.
I'd already switched to e-cigs by then, but my passenger smoked. When the cop pulled me over, he asked me in an obviously bored manner, "Do you have any cigarettes?" I really didn't know about the price difference because I didn't smoke at the time. So I turned to my friend and said, "Give me a cigarette for the Trooper." He handed me a cigarette, and I handed it to the cop.
He looked at me with the world's most puzzled look until it dawned on him that I thought he was asking to bum a cigarette. Then he laughed, handed me the cigarette back, and thanked me for making his day.
Rich
A few years ago, I was stopped by a State Trooper at Hancock, New York after coming over the bridge from PA. At the time, cigarette taxes in PA were much lower than in New York, so a lot of New Yorkers bought them there rather than here.
I'd already switched to e-cigs by then, but my passenger smoked. When the cop pulled me over, he asked me in an obviously bored manner, "Do you have any cigarettes?" I really didn't know about the price difference because I didn't smoke at the time. So I turned to my friend and said, "Give me a cigarette for the Trooper." He handed me a cigarette, and I handed it to the cop.
He looked at me with the world's most puzzled look until it dawned on him that I thought he was asking to bum a cigarette. Then he laughed, handed me the cigarette back, and thanked me for making his day.
Rich
denverpilot
Tied Down
You've accurately defined the problem - it should NOT by atypical. People go along because they see you as "authority" and authority was mommy and daddy growing up. They also go along because they think you're "there to help", and there's literally NOTHING (if they committed a crime) that you can do to help them.
You act like a human by understanding the basic HUMAN right of not self-incriminating trumps your job. Someone exercising those rights is being MORE human than not.
I think "agent of the state" is misleading. You are an agent of the LAW, and the law, as we all know is continually refined and broken... the law is NEVER 100% right. Your job is LAW enforcement.
My job as a HUMAN is not to incriminate myself to any agent of the LAW. A base, key, bottom line, most important, HUMAN right.
Maybe, maybe not. Plumbers HAVE been made examples of by over-zealous DAs. Surely you don't think they haven't?
Take, for example, the laws surrounding a shooting. We have real live cases where people defending themselves from armed attackers in their own homes with firearms, are prosecuted for murder by politically motivated anti-gun DAs. That's not sane.
All your story proved was that anyone can be bent over by any DA who feels like it. They felt like "making an example" of your buddy. They sometimes feel like "making an example" of civilians. Even if the ARRESTING Officer does NOT AGREE with the case.
Once your buddy's arrest was made, he was screwed. He screwed himself harder by offering up information used to hang himself... literally. His defense attorney, even a cheap one, had more options if he'd never said a word, and there's nothing, no whining about "human behavior", no complaining that the "job is hard", changes that. He was going to get arrested no matter what, it sounds like. He took a shot at telling the truth and it did him NO GOOD with the arresting officers, obviously. NONE. They listened and arrested anyway.
Because THE LAW says operating a motor vehicle impaired, is illegal... period... full stop... and the DA decided his prescription made him impaired.
So the plea, "Help me, help you..." meant what in his case? ZERO. NOTHING. NADA. His peers slapped the cuffs on him. And the DA prosecuted. And the LAW was the LAW. If it weren't, the DA couldn't have done it.
Yeah, the DA is MORE to blame than the arresting officers, but the SYSTEM works as a SYSTEM. His only chance, in that scenario... ONLY chance... was to shut up. Completely.
He's dead partially because he didn't shut his pie hole and trusted that someone would listen to him. It's not the LAWs job to listen to you, nor LAW ENFORCEMENT's job. It's the JURY's job.
Bottom line... would you have arrested him? If so... you'd have been part of the accident chain that led to his suicide.
Think of it that way... people calmly and politely exercising their rights are MORE HUMAN than you give them credit for. They're "insulting" you in your "job" to prioritize a much more important part of their humanity than being friendly to someone who's not there to be their friend. And they're protecting themselves from abuse by a DA, the media, whomever needs negative infomation they willingly provided, to harm them. They're not protecting themselves from YOU as the cop. It's nothing to be insulted about.
If you're going to arrest because you're insulted by them being HUMAN, feel free. Their most basic right is not to self-incriminate and it severely trumps being your buddy in the street at the car window. Unless you're saying when the DA goes nuts, you'd sign up to testify for the defense? Any of the arresting officers on your buddy's case, do that? Think the DA might have just handed them their butts and said they weren't experts on prescription drug impairment, and then been ****ed at them for a very long time?
I'll happily be your friend off the job. On the job, you're representing a lot more than just yourself, you're representing the first step inside a system with some very large and well-known flaws. Everything I say to you is evidence against me... unless you're willing to be my "friend" and come testify against the DA for me? You willing? I'm not even CLOSE to being willing to take that risk. I don't even care if I've known you for 20 years. In uniform, at my car window, you are an EVIDENCE COLLECTOR.
I can be friends with an IRS AUDITOR too, but not sitting in their conference room. Nope. Sorry. Love y'all, know you have a job to do, but if you think me being a HUMAN and exercising my right to SHUT UP is somehow offensive to you, you've already started down a path of disregarding MY humanity... see how that works?
ircphoenix
En-Route
I didn't realize "hi, how are you doing tonight?" was a complete and utter disregard for people's humanity... I'm a monster!
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
I know, just yankin' the chains. Civilized discussions are unusual here.....
All I really know is never, never argue with a cop that has a tube of Preparation H sticking out of his shirt pocket....
paflyer
Final Approach
Being accosted and confronted by an armed guy with a shaved head and who looks like he's been chugging 'roids, wielding essentially unlimited power (in the moment) is not what I call routine or a "conversation."
"Do you know why I stopped you? Where are you heading this evening? Have you had anything to drink? Are you carrying any weapons? Mind if I look in your car for the safety of us (i.e., me- you're expendable) both ?"
From the suspect's position you are a threat. This is not "normal human interaction" and the typical response to a threat is fight or flight. Physical flight will probably get the suspect killed or injured, or certainly arrested. Mental flight turns people into sheeple who comply with anything they are asked (i.e., ordered) to do. So the only remaining response is "fight" and in the physical sense will also get a suspect killed or injured, and certainly arrested. Passive "fight" is the only course of action left.
The fact is that if you are stopped and questioned by the police, you are being investigated with the hopeful goal of a juicy, promotion-building arrest. That to me removes any requirement for social niceties on the part of the suspect and tough crap if that is perceived by the cop as "rude." There is no mandate that anyone "participates" in a conversation, certainly with an armed representative of the State. It is NOT a conversation. It is an interrogation that most people are too dumb/scared to resist. To 99.9% of cops, any resistance is a pretext to scrutinize further and maybe punish you for being "insolent."
BTW, you should start getting used to suspects pushing back.
paflyer
Final Approach
Nothing personal, but you really don't give a **** how someone is doing. It's a pretext to further questioning.
Kevin16587
Pre-takeoff checklist
You watch too much TV. An armed, shaved head, roid rager? A promotion based on a "juicy arrest." Thanks for the laugh.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
paflyer
Final Approach
I'll have to post some pictures of the typical LEOs around here. They all look like MPs or bulls. Not too many have hair on their heads even if capable. At least they finally got rid of the Village People mustaches.
Your disregard of my other editorial is noted. Must have touched a nerve or two. Good.
You have a good evening, now, and drive safely.
Kevin16587
Pre-takeoff checklist
I'm a busy family guy and admit I don't know which editorial you are referring too. I'll tuck the kids in and check back. Fire away.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Kevin16587
Pre-takeoff checklist
When I make traffic stops I keep things very professional but I also enjoy talking to people. While the violator digs through their glove box looking for the items I asked to see I almost always ask them where they are going. There are many vacation destinations near where I work and it's common to encounter tourists. I really am curious where they are going. I might even suggest an interesting back road to take to get there. If I notice an accent in their speech, I'll ask them where they are from. I've met some really cool people with interesting stories. Some of the most interesting stories come from hitchhikers. It's amazing how much we have in common with random people.
Why is so hard to believe that many cops out there really are just interested in learning about other people? I'm not the scary boogeyman looking for my next victim to take to jail. Hopefully people don't change. If everybody just handed me a 5th amendment card on every traffic stop it would be a shame to lose those friendly interactions. But, I guess that's what it will come to eventually.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
paflyer
Final Approach
How in hell can you think a traffic stop is an opportunity for a friendly interaction with a stranger?
Kevin, I'm sure you're the nicest guy in the world, but if you pulled me over and started probing where I'm going or where I'm from, you'll either get an icy death stare, a NOYFB, or "No habla Ingles" depending on my mood. And I'm a nice guy too, but I strongly object to being questioned by some person I have been forced -at the point of a gun- into having a "conversation" with. And I'm sure not going to contribute to prolonging it by answering "friendly" questions designed to provide PC for the "well trained" German Shepard to rip up the upholstery.
Sadly for all involved, somewhere along the way Jim Reed and Pete Malloy were replaced by militarized robocops who think they are are in Mosul...
Kevin16587
Pre-takeoff checklist
See, I talk to people the way I want to be talked to. Most of the traffic stops I've been involved with that turned into a fight or flight situation resulted in a pursuit. A couple wanted to fight, but I have tools to deal with that. On a "routine" stop I usually have no trouble putting people at ease and earning their trust. If they are agitated or nervous I'm pretty good at diffusing the situation and making them more comfortable. I don't see fear in people's eyes because I'm standing in front of them with my scary uniform and short hair. Maybe the cops in your area look different than my area.
Regarding the promotional process, why not just ask about how works instead of making up your own information? Since you brought it up I'll explain how my agencies' promotions work. It just so happens I'm currently in the middle of the promotional process. It's a two part exam, similar to the pilot certificate process. I took the written test two weeks ago. 110 multiple choice questions. I've been with the same department for almost 17 years. I studied several hours a day since September. There are roughly 9,000 pages of information they compile the test from and that information is constantly changing due to case law and policy changes. There are no practice tests and the questions change every time they offer it. Very few questions ever get recycled. Assuming I passed the written test, then I'll do the oral interview in a couple of months. That is an interview in front of a high ranking officer and a rep from HR. There are 5 scenario type questions printed on a piece of paper. You get roughly 7 minutes per question to respond. As you respond the examiners literally check their boxes to ensure you hit all the points. The overall score is based on 50% written test, 50% interview. I won't know the score of either test until June 30 when the promotional list gets published. I heard about 1,200 people took the written test. Only about the top 150 actually have a chance of promoting. No juicy arrests required.
No nerves were touched. Does that disappoint you?
Don't try to compare my responses in this make believe internet discussion to how you think I deal with suspects in the real world. You guys aren't suspects. You are just anonymous people on the other side of a computer. I have no problem handling suspects in the real world that push back. Thanks for your concern.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Kevin16587
Pre-takeoff checklist
Good gawd. I think the chem trails have gotten to you. Send me a PM and I'll arrange a ride a long in a beautiful part of sunny CA (I'm serious). I would love to show you first hand how I consistently turn a traffic stop into a friendly interaction and make small talk with strangers I just pulled over. I usually get a thank you at the end of the stop, even when I issue a citation. Who said anything about forcing people to talk at gun point? Holy cow!!! If that happens where you live you need to move.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
denverpilot
Tied Down
I think you're being honest and I appreciate it. I've simply seen the other form of cop, the guy who burnt out years ago who's just out there annoyed as hell all day every day and who's not interested in giving tips on nice back roads or anything like that. Their heart isn't in the job for service anymore but they're clawing their way to a pension. I worked with one as a dispatcher. He was a mess.
He'd seen too much and needed to not be the thing the public saw in a uniform but he met the requirements of the rules, he annoyed the hell out of everyone in sight, and he probably needed mental health care. He was the first to tussle with any suspect who needed "coaxing" too. Guy was a walking PTSD time bomb before PTSD became a household word.
And everyone covered for him. Because they felt bad for him. He was their "brother" and screw the people he came into contact with daily. Hourly, really. I remember clearly other dispatchers making sure I learned to send him cover on damned near anything whether he wanted it or not, because the cover might have to stop HIM from being an ass more than he needed the cover car.
Nobody talks about that kind of crap outside the blue line. I suspect you've seen it and know it happens. I only mention it because I'm NOT a dispatcher anymore and haven't been for a VERY long time.
When the recent tide of public perception about PD/LE started turning sour a LONG time ago, I had personal conversations with LE friends and told them, "Better get the house in order and get the bad cops off the streets. They're going to ruin things for all of you, and you know it." I'd get back the usual excuses about procedure and unions and nobody snitching to IA or the Sheriff... nobody took it seriously.
And now they're surprised when departments happily pay out over $3M on one hot head who shouldn't be on the street anymore, in MULTIPLE lawsuits and incidents and they're still hiding behind union, procedures, and the blue line? Is it really any wonder the public doesn't trust the uniform anymore?
Integrity counts. I think you have it. Does EVERY other cop that wears your department's uniform have it? They MUST. If not, YOUR interactions with the public will be diminished. Same with your DA? Are they solid? Or are they playing partisan politics with people's lives? People know instinctively when their local government has gone and decided to be willfully against common sense. And you're the first person they interact with in that system.
(You want corruption, my old suburb of Denver had to put the Sheriff in prison after he was first called the most "beloved" Sheriff in decades and they put his name on the fancy new "Justice Center". Quite ironic to be locked up in the building named after you because you had everyone fooled...)
The hard part is, it's like a lot of other jobs. It only takes one "oops" to erase a hundred "atta boys". Add willfully done "oops" where folks are covering for them to that list and nobody trusts anymore. It doesn't take much.
ircphoenix
En-Route
Rough crowd @Kevin16587 .
Just bear in mind many are borderline sovereign citizens around here... and the gubmint is just an evil organization designed to rob people of their freedom!
Just bear in mind many are borderline sovereign citizens around here... and the gubmint is just an evil organization designed to rob people of their freedom!
Kevin16587
Pre-takeoff checklist
I've definitely worked with the type of burnt out officer you describe. Both in my department and others. However, they are usually too lazy to do any paperwork and don't do much to get in trouble. Just do the minimum until retirement. We are usually glad to see them go but they really don't cause much trouble outside the walls of the department.
My department has a great reputation, not perfect, but really good. Ever heard of Ponch and John? My department is know world wide for our high level of training. As a result, we develop very professional employees and average a surprisingly low annual lawsuit settlement amount. Like really low for being the largest state agency in the country (sorry don't have exact numbers).
I've been on a mission to improve the public's trust and perception of law enforcement for a long time. I've even had a couple of positions where that was my primary duty. I've talked about things very similar to this thread in front of a room of 200 civilians. It's much easier to have a meaningful conversation in person. It's also really hard to earn the trust of the public if they put up a stone wall on a traffic stop and don't allow to let the officer to try to connect a little. I occasionally stumble on people who make it clear they don't want to talk to me and are visibly upset. Those stops go pretty quick because I don't talk much either. I don't take it personally and I've already forgotten about them by the time I get to Starbucks.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Kevin16587
Pre-takeoff checklist
Lol. These guys are ***** cats that like to push buttons.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Clark1961
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2008
- Messages
- 17,737
- Display Name
Display name:
Display name:
The "prove to me" bit
RJM62
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2007
- Messages
- 13,157
- Location
- Upstate New York
- Display Name
Display name:
Geek on the Hill
Oh.
You're in California.
That explains it.
About seven years ago, I spent a little over a week in San Diego attending to some family business. One morning while there I borrowed my host's car to run some errands, the first of which was to pick up a few items at a local CVS or RiteAid. I made the left turn into the store's parking lot, and was followed in and pulled over by by a cop. I don't remember which department. It was probably the San Diego PD because it was a local road.
The officer looked at my New York driver's license and very politely asked me if I was from New York. I resisted the urge to respond sarcastically -- Brooklyn sarcasm falls flat in San Diego -- and explained that I was in town taking care of some family business. He then smiled, excused himself, and went back to his car, presumably to check for warrants and whether the car had been reported stolen.
He came back a few moments later, apologized for the delay (which had taken less than a minute), then immediately and enthusiastically launched into a litany of recommendations of things that I should do while in San Diego, complete with his own personal commentary about each destination. He knew where to go, which days were best to go, attractions not to miss (I think he knew all the animals at the zoo and Sea World on first-name bases), places to eat, places not to eat, the best ways to get to those places, how to avoid the traffic, how to get discounted admissions, and pretty much any other information that any tourist could ask for. The guy was a walking tourism brochure.
Right when I thought he was done, he went into a spiel about how many people in San Diego had actually moved there from the East Coast, their reasons for doing so, and some amusing (to him) anecdotes about their adjustment to the vastly different way of life. He talked about the weather, the laid-back pace of life, the ocean, the nightlife, the artistic and cultural attractions, the music, the history, and whatever other reasons he could think of why I should move to San Diego.
I suppose his talk lasted only a few minutes, but it seemed like it went on for an hour. Having been raised in Brooklyn, I had the sentence "Can you shut up and give me the ticket already?" on the tip of my tongue -- locked, loaded, and ready to fire. But I somehow managed to refrain.
The thing was that the cop was so genuinely friendly and obviously enthusiastic about sharing all the good things about his city with a stranger that it actually mitigated my annoyance at being delayed. Also, I'd already discovered that San Diego residents in general had this odd habit of enthusiastically talking up their town to strangers and explaining all the reasons why they should live there instead of wherever they'd come from. Some even ended their spiels with, "So, are you going to move here now?" I think they get commissions.
So I sat there, politely listening to the officer, smiling, nodding, and laughing at all the right moments, until finally he handed me my paperwork back, wished me a good time in San Diego, and started walking back to his car.
But then he came back.
I figured he'd either decided to ticket me after all, or had thought of some other tourist destination that he'd neglected to tell me about before. But no, he just wanted to tell me why he'd pulled me over. Apparently the center lane on that road was an emergency vehicle lane, not a left-turn lane. He also explained that that's not especially clear to people from out of town, which was why he didn't ticket me.
I thanked him, and we went our respective ways. It was one of the strangest interactions I'd ever had with law enforcement. But it also was consistent with my interactions with people in general in San Diego, so in that weird context, it made perfect sense.
Rich
Last edited:
Kevin16587
Pre-takeoff checklist
It's not just San Diego. You described what I was making an attempt to explain previously. It's a human vs human thing and it's very much a cultural thing that can change depending on where you come from. I've lived or visited in many parts of the country, but I've never been to New York. I've always heard that New Yorkers are rude. Rude people are hard to talk to. In the words of the late Rodney King, "can't we all just get along."
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RJM62
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2007
- Messages
- 13,157
- Location
- Upstate New York
- Display Name
Display name:
Geek on the Hill
New Yorkers aren't rude. We just have different social rules. Sarcasm, for example, is considered an art form in The City. I doubt most Californians I've met could survive a day in a grittier neighborhood in Brooklyn or Queens (not someplace like Dumbo where the hipsters have ruined everything) without breaking down in tears. I mean, we'll have entire conversations in sarcasm -- and the sharper, the better.
But we don't consider it rude. We consider it art. It took me a while to realize that it falls flat in most other places.
I would go nuts in San Diego. All the niceness just irks me. It took me a while to get used to the niceness where I live now, and the local here are nowhere near as nice as the average person in California. Frankly, I don't know how you deal with it. It's scary.
Rich
Acrodustertoo
Ejection Handle Pulled
I have lived in 8 states all around the country but I always called Montana home. Everyone is very nice and relaxed, there is very little crime here and nobody is in your face, they let you alone to do as you please(within the law). I enjoyed living in all the places but there is just something special about Montana and the great people that call it home.New Yorkers aren't rude. We just have different social rules. Sarcasm, for example, is considered an art form in The City. I doubt most Californians I've met could survive a day in a grittier neighborhood in Brooklyn or Queens (not someplace like Dumbo where the hipsters have ruined everything) without breaking down in tears. I mean, we'll have entire conversations in sarcasm -- and the sharper, the better.
But we don't consider it rude. We consider it art. It took me a while to realize that it falls flat in most other places.
I would go nuts in San Diego. All the niceness just irks me. It took me a while to get used to the niceness where I live now, and the local here are nowhere near as nice as the average person in California. Frankly, I don't know how you deal with it. It's scary.
Rich
I've been to 42 states and the farther east you go the more crowded it is. This has a big effect on those who live there. I guess it is all in what you are used to. This country is filled with great people and I wish more of them would travel the country to see what is out there. It is a wonderful world we live in!
comanchepilot
En-Route
They're pretty much loonies anywhay - and what with chemtrails and moon landing hoaxers and all the rest - its a tough old world out there.
I've said repeatedly - and I tell some of the sovereign citizens I meet - that they can believe any damn foolishness they want - but when the time comes to interact with any official of government, they need to understand clearly the limits of the box they live in. Do or say what you want on your own property - no one is gonna bother you but once you set foot off of it - you need to live in the real world.
But between the tin foil hat brigade and the looney tunes who have no understanding of the scope of their rights in 2017, I can appreciate the distrust of government because given a chance, it''ll will make the wrong decision for the wrong reasons, but as you noted earlier incompetence is not conspiracy. There are too many people involved in government to have conspiracy any more - and if someone tries - it leaks like a collander used to transport water.
paflyer
Final Approach
Yeah, brilliant analysis there Rich.New Yorkers aren't rude. We just have different social rules. Sarcasm, for example, is considered an art form in The City. I doubt most Californians I've met could survive a day in a grittier neighborhood in Brooklyn or Queens (not someplace like Dumbo where the hipsters have ruined everything) without breaking down in tears. I mean, we'll have entire conversations in sarcasm -- and the sharper, the better.
But we don't consider it rude. We consider it art. It took me a while to realize that it falls flat in most other places.
I would go nuts in San Diego. All the niceness just irks me. It took me a while to get used to the niceness where I live now, and the local here are nowhere near as nice as the average person in California. Frankly, I don't know how you deal with it. It's scary.
Rich
ircphoenix
En-Route
New York sarcasm?