Bravo clearance without the "magic words"

[poadeleted20]

I once had a bravo clearance and was being vectored. The controller vectored me into a class delta than promptly chewed my ass for entering the delta without calling the tower up beforehand. It wasn't the airport I was landing at. Point is controllers aren't perfect. Some of them will attempt to blame you for their mistakes.

...and that was indeed a controller error, since controllers giving radar service to VFR aircraft are required by FAA Order 7110.65 to coordinate with Tower before sending aircraft they're working into Tower's airspace without handing the aircraft off to Tower.

 

[Brad Z]

Doesn't have to be the words "cleared into Bravo". There is no specified correct phraseology that constitutes a B clearance. It can be "Proceed as requested" or "stay on your heading and course", an instruction to fly to a point within Bravo, or any other implicit phrase. Or if you cancel IFR within B you're cleared to continue without any further clearance, etc.

Correction: The controller may say "Cleared as requested", not "proceed as requested" (FAA Order 7110.65 7-9-2). The word "cleared" indicates it's a clearance. Likely no one will get in trouble if the word "proceed" is substituted for "cleared", but it's technically incorrect.

Under IFR you have a clearance limit. If you cancel IFR and continue VFR along the same route, you have a clearance, provided the controller doesn't issue an instruction to the contrary, such as "continue VFR descent below class bravo" or the like.

According to the 7110.65, "cleared out of bravo airspace" is also a valid clearance, so one may receive a bravo clearance associated with their departure instructions (although I'd argue a take-off clearance is a clearance, and a further clearance is unnecessary).

 

[sixpacker]

I was thinking about this thread today while ferrying my wife and daughter to yet another show . I heard pilots requesting twice for confirmation that they were cleared into Bravo. In one case I heard approach giving a vector to VFR traffic coming in and obviously it was going to send them into the Bravo because they came back with "Approach, Cherokee 123 just want to confirm that I'm cleared into the Bravo?". Controller said, "Yeah you're cleared into the Bravo" just like that like "yeah of course you are stop bothering me". It sounds like to me that this is one of those things that some controllers get a little slack with. I know in my case probably 20-25% of the time I have to ask for confirmation. My home airport is under the Bravo shelf close to the main airport so I almost always have to pass through the Bravo. The rules should be changed or clarified that if you get an ATC instruction that will send you into the Bravo that this means that you're cleared into the Bravo. I know this is not the case right now.

 

[JC150]

Interesting topic. I've always gotten the "magic words" and if I don't I always ask. However, one time I was VFR 500ft under a Bravo and on an ATC assigned heading and altitude. The controller was so busy she probably forgot about me and I nearly flew into a tower. I was getting "obstacle obstacle, pull up" and simply told the controller that I was climbing into the bravo to avoid colliding with the tower. I simply got a "approved as requested". Never heard the "magic words" but I never got a letter from the FAA or heard anything else of it.

 

[sixpacker]

Interesting topic. I've always gotten the "magic words" and if I don't I always ask. However, one time I was VFR 500ft under a Bravo and on an ATC assigned heading and altitude. The controller was so busy she probably forgot about me and I nearly flew into a tower. I was getting "obstacle obstacle, pull up" and simply told the controller that I was climbing into the bravo to avoid colliding with the tower. I simply got a "approved as requested". Never heard the "magic words" but I never got a letter from the FAA or heard anything else of it.

This does bring up a good point though. If you're below the Bravo and you have not been given a Bravo clearance remember you are STILL VFR and you need to keep your eyes outside the plane. So just because she gave you a heading this doesn't mean that you now don't have to look out for obstacles. You also still need to be looking for other traffic and making sure you don't go in Class B or Class D as you continue below the Bravo shelf. The appropriate action would have been to go around the tower. What if where you climbed was on the approach path of a large airport and a 737 was where you climbed up into?

 

[JC150]

That's a good point Sixpacker. I climbed because it was a cluster of towers at the same height and I heard the "pull up" alarm so that was my first reaction. I was watching the towers from a distance and was waiting for ATC to assign a different heading to go around but I guess she was just too busy.