Brakes anyone?

[Gary Ward]

Finally changed the brakes on the Cessna.
The good thing is I bought them over 2 years ago and I bet they were cheaper then?
I have been keeping a eye on them even though they are under fairings. I take the fairings off to check them and my tires.
I replaced the brakes 4.3 years ago. 734 hobbs hrs and 587 tach hours ago. I haven’t added up the landings yet, it was a lot.
I am hard on brakes, no denying it.
Which means I am hard on tires.
My monster retreads mainly on the pilot’s side is pretty much gone. It is also because the runway got recoated with a sealer with crushed granite in it and it is like sand paper. It sucks!
Here’s some pictures for fun to look at.
I burnt those rotors up. Looks like rings around Saturn!

 

[Gary Ward]

It was hot outside and I don’t have AC.
Passenger side tire. Notice how sliced up it is. Look how much more worn the pilot side is. Is that because I fly by myself most times?
Last set of tire wore more evenly.

 

[Racerx]

Lots of tight turns one direction?

 

[Half Fast]

Last set of tire wore more evenly.

How many landings do you make before you rotate your tires?

 

[Gary Ward]

Lots of tight turns one direction?

You might be on to something? Cause I am a creature of habit. I do things the same every time.
I have never taken the time to rotate tires. I don’t want to disturb the tube once its set in the tire.
Those tires were installed 6-2022, just a tick over 3 years old.370 tach hours and 423 Hobbs time. Many many landings. Last set of tires lasted 2600+ landings. But now our airport and several others around us got recoated last year and it is eating our tires.

 

[kyleb]

That tire is more worn because of engine torque on takeoff. Your prop is turning clockwise from the pilot's perspective. It is trying to spin the aircraft the opposite direction - putting more load on your left side tire. You're probably compensating with right rudder, which further loads the left tire. Use more right aileron on takeoff and your tire wear will become more uniform side to side.

Unless the wind dictates otherwise, I start every takeoff with about 1/4 deflection of right aileron.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

Longshot - what is the prevailing crosswind direction and runway? Touching down on one side more than other?

 

[Lance F]

Wanna be a glutton for brake and tire punishment? Own a training 172. A student can flat spot a new tire the first hour it’s on the plane. A don’t ask me about students riding the brakes while taxiing.

 

[Half Fast]

Wanna be a glutton for brake and tire punishment? Own a training 172. A student can flat spot a new tire the first hour it’s on the plane. A don’t ask me about students riding the brakes while taxiing.

Not just students. I flat-spotted one on my Musketeer from not realizing how critical it was to raise the flaps prior to braking.

 

[Gary Ward]

Wanna be a glutton for brake and tire punishment? Own a training 172. A student can flat spot a new tire the first hour it’s on the plane. A don’t ask me about students riding the brakes while taxiing.

I remember flight training. I was instructed a few dozen times to stay off the brakes.
Probably why I use my brakes so aggressively now on my own plane? Brakes parts and tires used to be cheap compared to auto brakes, Not so much any more. One monster retread is $169 now.

 

[Gary Ward]

Make

That tire is more worn because of engine torque on takeoff. Your prop is turning clockwise from the pilot's perspective. It is trying to spin the aircraft the opposite direction - putting more load on your left side tire. You're probably compensating with right rudder, which further loads the left tire. Use more right aileron on takeoff and your tire wear will become more uniform side to side.

Unless the wind dictates otherwise, I start every takeoff with about 1/4 deflection of right aileron.

Makes a lot of sense, thanks for that advice.

 

[Hang 4]

I have never taken the time to rotate tires. I don’t want to disturb the tube once its set in the tire.

Potentially a stupid question as I've never done anything with airplane wheels, but aren't they rotatable as a unit? Meaning just take the entire wheel and move it to the other side? Or are you talking about the forces on the tube while it's in the wheel being reversed?

 

[eman1200]

I'm addicted to drinking brake fluid. but I can stop any time I want.

 

[Gary Ward]

Potentially a stupid question as I've never done anything with airplane wheels, but aren't they rotatable as a unit? Meaning just take the entire wheel and move it to the other side? Or are you talking about the forces on the tube while it's in the wheel being reversed?

Yes that could be done, but. I would want to flip them on the rims/wheels so the other side of the tire wears. Look real close on the pilots side tire in my picture above. It is worn more on the inside than the outside because of the camber in the landing gear. If I just swapped them side to side then both would continue to wear on the inside. Then what about the brake rotors? do I swap the pads side to side or put a different rotor up against used pads that might not seat to the used rotor.
Then the other challenge I would have is don't have aviation jacks to be able to jack up both sides at the same time. If I had a low wing then we have aviation jacks for those since we use em to swing the gear on my buddy's arrow.

It's enough work to just to take the fairings off to inspect tires and brakes.

 

[Clip4]

How you use brakes determines brake component life, not Hobb/tach times. There really aren’t many operations that require a lot of brake use. Lower brake component life are a result the pilot abusing them and evidence of brake abuse is usually seen on the tires, but there is abuse that isn’t.

 

[Gary Ward]

How you use brakes determines brake component life, not Hobb/tach times. There really aren’t many operations that require a lot of brake use. Lower brake component life are a result the pilot abusing them and evidence of brake abuse is usually seen on the tires, but there is abuse that isn’t.

Totally agree. I am ruff on brakes, tires and other stuff but I have fun.
I like to do short field landings. I do a lot of landings and a lot of flying. I have fun with it and don't worry to much about maintenance since I do it myself.
I log every flight on paper and all maintenance events on the same paper log, then transfer them to my real logs. So I always have my paper log in the plane which makes easier to see how long things last and when service is due. I think I went squawk free for the last year.
I have logged every flight and every repair on this legal pad since my first flight in this plane April 2018.

 

[Clip4]

Also if you pulled the McCauley brake assemblies and installed new Cleveland you would be amazed how much improvement you have in braking and you will see some improvement in component replacement times.

 

[Magman]

I’ve seen numerous failure of the early 3 piece McCauley wheels.

Sometimes you can hear the crunching while moving aircraft by hand.

Doing the Cleveland conversion WHERE you want to is important.

With Flight Schools having a built up wheel can be almost as good as

having a spare aircraft. It can be easily swapped between flights.

 

[Gary Ward]

I’ve seen numerous failure of the early 3 piece McCauley wheels.

Sometimes you can hear the crunching while moving aircraft by hand.

Doing the Cleveland conversion WHERE you want to is important.

With Flight Schools having a built up wheel can be almost as good as

having a spare aircraft. It can be easily swapped between flights.

Luckily mine are 2 piece McCauley wheels.
I know what you mean as I can hear mine sometimes make noise as I am pushing it into the hangar.
Couple years ago the left side was making too much noise when I was pushing it.
I found the outer bearing race loose in one wheel half. I found a good condition used one on E bay that has been on the plane for 2-3 years now. That would have been the time to make the change to Cleveland wheels and brakes.

 

[Magman]

The “webs” in the hub fail as the Cap Screws hole had very little metal

surrounding it. There is a rumor that one had this occur and the disk

was loose. Seems it flew home minus one brake disk. Just a rumor?


2 piece McCauley per Gary were good long term as are Cleveland’s.

 

[Clip4]

The “webs” in the hub fail as the Cap Screws hole had very little metal

surrounding it. There is a rumor that one had this occur and the disk

was loose. Seems it flew home minus one brake disk. Just a rumor?


2 piece McCauley per Gary were good long term as are Cleveland’s.

McCauley brakes are the Little Caesar’s of the brake world. It they are all can afford better you can justify them.

 

[Stewartb]

If you’re hard on brakes, don’t overlook your masters. Lose one of those and you may have a bad day. Brake masters are probably the most under-maintained component in a typical GA airplane.

 

[Gary Ward]

If you’re hard on brakes, don’t overlook your masters. Lose one of those and you may have a bad day. Brake masters are probably the most under-maintained component in a typical GA airplane.

Other than changing the fluid what else should be done?

 

[Gary Ward]

McCauley brakes are the Little Caesar’s of the brake world. It they are all can afford better you can justify them.

It's what came on the aircraft and have done the job so far.
Wonder what a Cleveland brake and wheel upgrade would cost?

 

[Mikey52]

About 4 AMU's.

 

[4RNB]

Other than changing the fluid what else should be done?

O rings.

 

[Dan Thomas]

O rings.

I have rebuilt the masters. After 40 and 50 years they end up full of black sludge, a product of deteriorating O-rings and atmospheric moisture absorbed by the hydraulic fluid. That fluid also slowly loses its more volatile elements and becomes thicker and stickier.....

....which is why I disagree with wiping down the oleo struts with 5606. The oil get sticky and attracts dust that then grinds away at the seals and strut bearing and scraper rings. Lubrication is not always the answer.

 

[Clip4]

It's what came on the aircraft and have done the job so far.
Wonder what a Cleveland brake and wheel upgrade would cost?

The plane also probably came with Cessna ARC radios and audio panel. Hopefully you opted for a better option. What did that cost?

 

[Dan Thomas]

Those old 3-piece McCauleys are fine for lighter homebuilts. I had them on the Jodel. I have seen them modified; the hex-head capscrews are all removed, the holes are carefully drilled 1/4" or 5/16" all the way through to the other side's holes, and AN4 or -5 bolts and nylock nuts are used to clamp it all together. It was overtightening of the capscrews that used to split that casting at the screw holes, and with thru-bolts instead of capscrews that splitting risk is gone.

The capscrew torque was stamped right on the wheel flanges near the bolt holes, yet people persisted in overtorquing them. "More is better," they think. Nope. More is expensive.



Those are aluminum flanges. Many were steel instead. Like this:

 

[Clip4]

Other than changing the fluid what else should be done?

Replace o-ring.

 

[Gary Ward]

I have rebuilt the masters. After 40 and 50 years they end up full of black sludge, a product of deteriorating O-rings and atmospheric moisture absorbed by the hydraulic fluid. That fluid also slowly loses its more volatile elements and becomes thicker and stickier.....

....which is why I disagree with wiping down the oleo struts with 5606. The oil get sticky and attracts dust that then grinds away at the seals and strut bearing and scraper rings. Lubrication is not always the answer.

I have been using mineral spirit's on the strut. That was suggested by McFarlane years ago.
Once your in there at the master cylinders o rings then it's time for new hoses also.

 

[Magman]

There were several different configurations of the 3 pc wheel.

I think the first hubs were magnesium with cap screws.

Later came an aluminum hub.

Still later came factory bolts and nuts.

IMHO. The 3 pc was junk on Cessnas but the 2 pice was equal to

Clevelands . Of course there were trying to mismatch pads and rivets.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

I remember flight training. I was instructed a couple hundred times to stay off the brakes.
Probably why I use my brakes so aggressively now on my own plane? Brakes parts and tires used to be cheap compared to auto stuff. Not so much any more. One monster retread is $169 now. I am going to order a set and tubes tomorrow.

"Heels on the floor!" — every flight instructor with a primary student on takeoff.

 

[Gary Ward]

"Heels on the floor!" — every flight instructor with a primary student on takeoff.

Yes! exactly.
I was trained to say that at first out loud.
Then I started flying with a new friend who is a standards check airmen for 12 years and Captain for 22 years.
He asked me not to say that each time and taught me how to talk on the radio.
I forgot about that, Heels on the floor!

 

[Ed Haywood]

"Heels on the floor!" — every flight instructor with a primary student on takeoff.

I think that's the rule for teenage daughters too.