Boy I hate MD-80's

Long Beach Death tubes are ok. I liked that when I was stuck in coach I had less of a chance of getting a middle seat than on the 737.
 
I always thought they were a cool-looking plane. Triple that for the 717. :)
 
I like MD80s- sit near the front on the left side, it's like they are powered by ghosts, they're so quiet.

Get stuck in the back, between the engines, and you are in hell.
 
What Spike said.

If you can scarf a seat in the F cabin, they are the quietest planes around. I've flown a lot of the MD-88 and MD-90 series.

In back, there's a lot less chance of a middle seat.

They ARE fuel hogs, however....
 
Even up in F they suck. Old, broken, and stink.

Actually, I take that back. That's the way most of AA's fleet is. In fact, AA is one more f'd up leg from losing me as a customer, after the way AA and BA treated us last week. Terminal 5 at LHR 24 hours after opening was an unmitigated disaster, in addition to other things that boiled my blood.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
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Things such as this are why I fly Southwest. No chance of getting stuck on a POS RJ.
 
Even up in F they suck. Old, broken, and stink.

Actually, I take that back. That's the way most of AA's fleet is.

Most of my AA time has either been on a 73 or a 75. For the <1 hour flight on the MadDog from DFW-SAT I sat in the back as it wasn't worth burning an upgrade. The back of the bus is the same regardless. The old TWA 75's badly needed refurbishment up front, but those have been pawned-off to DL who IS doing the full refurbishment.

Most of my MD-88/90 time has been on DL - who tends to take much better care of the aircraft interiors.

In fact, AA is one more f'd up leg from losing me as a customer, after the way AA and BA treated us last week. Terminal 5 at LHR 24 hours after opening was an unmitigated disaster, in addition to other things that boiled my blood.

Oooohhh Terminal 5. Not me, sir. Heathrow ranks among my "worst airports in the world". I personally think it's worse than Cairo.

I gave up on AA last year (after requal'ing as Platinum) due to the problems with delays, cancellations, and outright lack of customer service. IIRC, my last trip throug DFW involved a terminal "lock-down" by the TSA for a phantom passenger that got something through security. I realized that I could do far better on a WN non-stop as I could with either DL thorough ATL or AA through DFW.
 
Oooohhh Terminal 5. Not me, sir. Heathrow ranks among my "worst airports in the world". I personally think it's worse than Cairo.

See my post here:

Andrew Stanley said:
Remind me to check the Heathrow website next time I plan to travel through there, lest they decide to do some major unveiling of their latest screwed up infrastructure project. Had I done that, I would have opted to rent a car or something to get to Milan.

Off the plane, through Terminal 3, to the bus, to Terminal 5, to passport control, and into the first of many queues. Security, using their fancy new system upstairs, was all screwed up because the "automatic tray returns" would frequently jam and require intervention by the company that built them. We waited just under 1 hour to get to the head of the security line.

Then, a small-ish (10"x20"x4") tray is placed in front of me by an attendant. I wear my glasses on red-eyes, and those, including every other potential object containing metal had to be placed in this bin. In addition, my bags were stacked on top of this bin, such that one bin represented one traveler (this, according to the kind fellow, was the new policy at Terminal 5)

I asked for a hand inspection of my film and was denied. I rapidly protested (I had a bunch of 1600 in there, and even in the X ray bag I'm paranoid), but was told that unless I wanted to junk it in the designated rubbish bin, it had to be X rayed. Given the queue, I made what might have been the worst decision of my trip (we'll see what happens when I get the work developed this week) and sent them on through. I was assured that these machines were safe up to ISO 3200 film (how the heck can they see the items in the bags then?!), and that all would be OK.

These new baggage machines are completely automated, with bags flagged for further inspection automatically removed from the pickup queue and routed over to a secure central area (two lines share a central area). As I guessed, my bags were kicked out (maybe the lead has something to do with it) and sent for further inspection.

Shoeless, beltless, and glasses-less, I waited in the surly line for 25 minutes. Four people were in front of me, including a dementia-addled Balkan man trying to get home with the help of a skycap and intepreter (who had large quantities of American cosmetics in his backpack), two extremely agitated Germans who clearly spent a months pay on Duty Free Booze, an Indian couple trying to get through a case of water and various other illegal items, and me, the evil photographer.

When it was my turn, all of the items had to be unpacked. Backpack completely unpacked, lenses removed from protective cases, lens caps removed from lenses for visual inspection, and each item swabbed and placed in a handy orange tote to be quarantined until proven that they were in fact not explosive. 6 Cokin filter holders? Opened, swabbed, and inspected. Tiffen velcro pouches? Opened, swabbed, inspected. Camera? Opened, swabbed, and inspected (she did swab the grip, I think I might have lost my temper if she dare touch the shutter). All in all, there were 28 items that were removed and swabbed, which does not include the change of clothes, small ziplock of chapstick and other sundries, my mp3 player, and so on.

After the explosive screen came up negative (clearly she was unable to detect my impending nuclear meltdown), I was permitted to wear my glasses again and repack all of my items.

Overal Grade: F-

The lounges in the airport were clean, but the staff basically clueless. Even the woman working the desk at the Concorde Club (rarefied air I will most likely never breathe) didn't have a clue how to look up flights and status on her computer.

I don't particularly hate LHR, I've flown through there a number of times; but I do hate the BOS-LHR AA 777 run, it's a milk run for FAs and hosts a number of retirement parties. (The past three BOS-LHR segments I have been on have been a FA retirement party. Imagine 10 FAs cackling about this and that while eating pizza's they brought on the plane and bitching about AAs terrible pay practices... and you start to get a taste). CDG is the airport that I hate with a furious passion.

I gave up on AA last year (after requal'ing as Platinum) due to the problems with delays, cancellations, and outright lack of customer service. IIRC, my last trip throug DFW involved a terminal "lock-down" by the TSA for a phantom passenger that got something through security. I realized that I could do far better on a WN non-stop as I could with either DL thorough ATL or AA through DFW.

I'm almost with you. The access to the lounges internationally is nice, because I'm not always lucky enough to expense biz and above. But, by the same token, customer service is in the toilet and BA said, and I quote: "We've washed our hands of you" after rebooking me on Monday, when I asked if we could use the lounge during our layover.

Errrgggh, my blood is boiling again. Hey, you United guys, how much do you like it?

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
Yesterday morning my AA flight to Minneapolis got cancelled as a result of the groundings. Wound up getting on a NWA flight. A mother with two children (couldn't have been more than 3 and 5) plunked them down in the two seat row behind me and then sat in a different row. Those two kids kicked the seats and slammed hands on tables for the whole flight. I finally turned to my "partner in torture" and stated it could be worse, we could be going to Europe! On my return trip on a CRJ I got the very back row, beside the toilet, with no window - seat backs don't recline so when the guy in front of me reclined his seat I felt I could drool on top of his head! The "not so small flight attendant" whose seat folds down into the center aisle was half in my seat as she kept dozing off and falling over.

All I kept thinking was that I should have flown myself! If it wasn't for my foot (recent bunion surgery) I would have!
 
I'm almost with you. The access to the lounges internationally is nice, because I'm not always lucky enough to expense biz and above. But, by the same token, customer service is in the toilet and BA said, and I quote: "We've washed our hands of you" after rebooking me on Monday, when I asked if we could use the lounge during our layover.

Errrgggh, my blood is boiling again. Hey, you United guys, how much do you like it?

Cheers,

-Andrew

I've got so much status-wise on DL (lifetime level) that I end up on them or a partner (CO/NW/AF/KL) most of the time. AA is my number 2 carrier for international travel. Depending on the cities, WN is near the top domestically. Lounge access is nice (if you're top tier - and I am on DL) that gets you lounge access even if you're in steerage. IME, the inflight crews on DL are better than AA and UA, though the overall experience on CO has been the best I've ever had on a US-based carrier. Too bad CO hubs at EWR on the east coast - another cluster-fun airport.

I rank LHR as worse than CDG, though CDG is NOT a place you want to make a close connection. I spent almost 30 minutes riding around the airport in one of the buses after we arrived at a remote stand.

I just had a guest in the office - we were talking about this subject. We each rank ZRH, CPH, and AMS as among the best airports in Europe to make a connection - LHR, CDG and FCO as the bottom 3.
 
I've got so much status-wise on DL (lifetime level) that I end up on them or a partner (CO/NW/AF/KL) most of the time. AA is my number 2 carrier for international travel. Depending on the cities, WN is near the top domestically. Lounge access is nice (if you're top tier - and I am on DL) that gets you lounge access even if you're in steerage. IME, the inflight crews on DL are better than AA and UA, though the overall experience on CO has been the best I've ever had on a US-based carrier. Too bad CO hubs at EWR on the east coast - another cluster-fun airport.

I rank LHR as worse than CDG, though CDG is NOT a place you want to make a close connection. I spent almost 30 minutes riding around the airport in one of the buses after we arrived at a remote stand.

I just had a guest in the office - we were talking about this subject. We each rank ZRH, CPH, and AMS as among the best airports in Europe to make a connection - LHR, CDG and FCO as the bottom 3.

As I have status with American... it's the only reason I'm staying right now. The cattle seats are #$@#$% torture, to boot.

See, to me, CDG is the worst. I'm 5-for-5 on losing bags there. I had a 1.5 hour layover that had me sprinting for dear life to get to the gate as they called my name. Security is always screwed up, those @#$@#$@# remote stands (which I seem to get every time it is raining), and the airport is a monument to itself, not efficent travel.

I just had my first arrival/connection in ZRH and I'd have to agree. Clean, modern, everyone from the Burger King guy up through the Captain speak at least three languages, great facilities, and nice people to boot. I loved it.

You can't really measure any of the airports in Italy against the rest of Europe. Poorly designed, marked, and laid out terminals with decrepit facilities and staff who just don't give a crap. In many ways, it's a reflection of the rest of Italy: beautiful countryside, wonderful food, terrible infrastructure. I've been on 3AM trains in Spanish Harlem (don't ask) that were nicer than the Trenitalia regional train that services the Cinque Terre -- a UNESCO World Heritage site! Seriously, you are better off comparing Indira Gandhi International in New Delhi with FCO and MXP. But I love Italy, so it gets a pass :)

SNN is the third worst airport in Europe. It's an out-station dump masquerading as a some grand hub to Europe.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
Kinda unrelated AA story. My sister was an investment banker with Morgan Stanley, ( Not to be confused with Andrew Stanley) The head honcho there had like a gajillion miles and was AAs MOST frequent flyer of all time. AA gave him a first class seat and by that I mean the actually shipped a first class seat to his office in NY.
 
As I have status with American... it's the only reason I'm staying right now.

Yeah, that's a lure. The fact that I'm lifetime on DL gave me freedom to get Plat. status on AA last year... and I'm 1 RT short of A-list on WN.

I've been on 3AM trains in Spanish Harlem (don't ask) that were nicer than the Trenitalia regional train that services the Cinque Terre -- a UNESCO World Heritage site! Seriously, you are better off comparing Indira Gandhi International in New Delhi with FCO and MXP. But I love Italy, so it gets a pass :)

I agree on the trains and FCO/MXP in Italy. I have a long story about having to go to Torino from Geneva (and return) on a same-day basis. I took the train. This was before the days of open borders - the route was Geneva -> France -> Italy. Miserable ride, especially the return.

SNN is the third worst airport in Europe. It's an out-station dump masquerading as a some grand hub to Europe.

My experience at SNN wasn't that bad. Then again, the last time I was there was during the hoof-mouth days where we had to be disinfected leaving our flight.

Kinda unrelated AA story. My sister was an investment banker with Morgan Stanley, ( Not to be confused with Andrew Stanley) The head honcho there had like a gajillion miles and was AAs MOST frequent flyer of all time. AA gave him a first class seat and by that I mean the actually shipped a first class seat to his office in NY.

Yeah, they did that with a disk jockey who did a morning show in Chicago and an afternoon show in another city (Dallas, maybe).
 
...
Yeah, they did that with a disk jockey who did a morning show in Chicago and an afternoon show in another city (Dallas, maybe).

Tom Joyner. He accepted jobs in both Chicago and Dallas once he found what the airline schedule was.

He never did get either one to agree to let him do the show remotely.

I don't think he missed many shows.

He'd be up a creek now.
 
This grounding of AA MD80s was a bit of an eye-opener for me: came into KORD on one just this Monday morning.
But from what I heard today, the problem is cable ties spaced 1 1/4" inches apart rather than 1" apart...?
I'm quite happy on the 80s, and even the old DC9s ( unless of course I'm stuck in that rearmost seat, with the blanked-out window and visions of failed turbine discs dancing in my throbbing head)... they just seem... solid, I guess.
 
I just got back from a trade show- bunch of my colleagues got their schedules messed up do to this. I got to stay in New Orleans an extra day since they were a little slow bringing boxes back.
 
Looks like the govmint gone haywire again to me !
 

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Looks like the govmint gone haywire again to me !

Exactly my opinion. Unfortunately the Sheeple have been well trained to think that the government is right, and the airline is wrong. I'll stop there before I have to move this to Spin Zone. It is, by the way, a great example of why airport security will never change for the better.
 
Man am I glad I don't have to travel any more. My only trips on airlines are leisure trips; I have lots of flexibility to pick and choose.

That being said, I've never had a problem at Heathrow, but I've only gone through about 10-12 times. Zurich is fantastic. Frankfurt has never been a problem for me, though that may have changed since I was last there.

I need my wife to have a crappy trip somewhere so I can convince her to upgrade to a Cessna 340 and leave the airlines behind for good. :D
 
Man am I glad I don't have to travel any more. My only trips on airlines are leisure trips; I have lots of flexibility to pick and choose.

That being said, I've never had a problem at Heathrow, but I've only gone through about 10-12 times. Zurich is fantastic. Frankfurt has never been a problem for me, though that may have changed since I was last there.

I need my wife to have a crappy trip somewhere so I can convince her to upgrade to a Cessna 340 and leave the airlines behind for good. :D

Frankfurt is a wonderful airport, EXCEPT the staff can be the most surly in all of Europe. They have, to me, the same problem as CDG -- try and speak English and suddenly you are a second class citizen. In Zurich? No problem. In Italy? No problem, although Italian will get you farther, same with Spain and AMS.

In terms of friendliness, though, the most friendly airport I've ever been to is Narita. People were just super nice to me.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
In terms of friendliness, though, the most friendly airport I've ever been to is Narita. People were just super nice to me.

Cheers,

-Andrew
Even security is nice there. They ask you permission to do everything, and smile, even occasionally laugh. Narita is a central meeting point for so many flights that I would get there several times a year and got to know a lot of the staff, even had drinks with a few when I would have to spend the night in transit there.
 
The Airlines have known about AD 2006-15-15 since Sep 5 2006 and had 18 months to comply with it. They also have known a problem with the wires since the alert came out in July 28 2005.
 
Originally Posted by jpflys View Post
Looks like the govmint gone haywire again to me !
Exactly my opinion. Unfortunately the Sheeple have been well trained to think that the government is right, and the airline is wrong.
Wait just a moment here.

Remember back when an AA DC-10 lost a wing engine on takeoff from ORD? (and I mean lost the engine as in it removed itself from the plane, not just stopped producing thrust :hairraise: ). It produced an assymetrical slat situation, the plane rolled over and crashed; fatal to all 271 aboard.

The problem was caused by an unauthorized mx procedure: they were mounting complete engine/pylon assemblies using forklift trucks, saving time. However, this unauthorized procedure caused stress on some of the mounting hardware and bingo! off came the engine at takeoff thrust.

The MD-80 case sounds much more benign. The wire bundle ties weren't installed according to the book. Well, frankly I don't want some A&P deciding that the new and creative method of bundle tying is safe.

Yes I am being a bit pedantic here but ... now tell me how a mx person makes the decision that one unauthorized procedure is safe and another is not?

American's history here is far from perfect (e.g., the DC-10). Particularly when the mx guy/gal is under the gun to get 'er done quickly? It is no different than you or I going down to the NAPA store's STC/PMA aisle to get parts for your Piper or Cessna.

Do it by the book. Got a good shortcut? Take the steps necessary to get the procedure authorized.

-Skip
 
Wait just a moment here.

Remember back when an AA DC-10 lost a wing engine on takeoff from ORD? (and I mean lost the engine as in it removed itself from the plane, not just stopped producing thrust :hairraise: ). It produced an assymetrical slat situation, the plane rolled over and crashed; fatal to all 271 aboard.

The problem was caused by an unauthorized mx procedure: they were mounting complete engine/pylon assemblies using forklift trucks, saving time. However, this unauthorized procedure caused stress on some of the mounting hardware and bingo! off came the engine at takeoff thrust.

The MD-80 case sounds much more benign. The wire bundle ties weren't installed according to the book. Well, frankly I don't want some A&P deciding that the new and creative method of bundle tying is safe.

Yes I am being a bit pedantic here but ... now tell me how a mx person makes the decision that one unauthorized procedure is safe and another is not?

American's history here is far from perfect (e.g., the DC-10). Particularly when the mx guy/gal is under the gun to get 'er done quickly? It is no different than you or I going down to the NAPA store's STC/PMA aisle to get parts for your Piper or Cessna.

Do it by the book. Got a good shortcut? Take the steps necessary to get the procedure authorized.

-Skip[/quote
Yes, But where is the FAA's regard for their Employer (the MD -80 passengers) looks like a case of overzealous CYA to me.
 
Wait just a moment here.

Remember back when an AA DC-10 lost a wing engine on takeoff from ORD? (and I mean lost the engine as in it removed itself from the plane, not just stopped producing thrust :hairraise: ). It produced an assymetrical slat situation, the plane rolled over and crashed; fatal to all 271 aboard.

The problem was caused by an unauthorized mx procedure: they were mounting complete engine/pylon assemblies using forklift trucks, saving time. However, this unauthorized procedure caused stress on some of the mounting hardware and bingo! off came the engine at takeoff thrust.

The MD-80 case sounds much more benign. The wire bundle ties weren't installed according to the book. Well, frankly I don't want some A&P deciding that the new and creative method of bundle tying is safe.

Yes I am being a bit pedantic here but ... now tell me how a mx person makes the decision that one unauthorized procedure is safe and another is not?

American's history here is far from perfect (e.g., the DC-10). Particularly when the mx guy/gal is under the gun to get 'er done quickly? It is no different than you or I going down to the NAPA store's STC/PMA aisle to get parts for your Piper or Cessna.

Do it by the book. Got a good shortcut? Take the steps necessary to get the procedure authorized.

-Skip[/quote
Yes, But where is the FAA's regard for their Employer (the MD -80 passengers) looks like a case of overzealous CYA to me.

I just saw someone (Richard Clarke? on Real Time?) saying that AA outsourced the maintenance, so the AD work was done in China or somewhere else in the Asian Pacific?

The FAA rep is saying they had 18 months to the work. The point is they did do the AD work, they just didn't get the exact 1" spacing of the wire ties, AND they had no idea they would be made the whipping boys for the Dallas FSDO incompetence while the acting FAA administrator was testifying before congress to become the actual administrator.
 
Frankfurt is a wonderful airport, EXCEPT the staff can be the most surly in all of Europe. They have, to me, the same problem as CDG -- try and speak English and suddenly you are a second class citizen. In Zurich? No problem. In Italy? No problem, although Italian will get you farther, same with Spain and AMS.

In terms of friendliness, though, the most friendly airport I've ever been to is Narita. People were just super nice to me.

Cheers,

-Andrew

I guess I'm lucky that I know enough German and French to get by, albeit on a rudimentary basis. In Italy, all you need to do is wave your hands a lot. You want surly, try Athens. Even with my wife speaking Greek they were surly.
 
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