Bottom end inspection...

N2124v

N2124v

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
Messages
633
Location
Austin, TX
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Display name:
N2124V
I am considering a 1978 172N that has the factory engine and 2200 total time. This was a logbook entry from a few years ago. I'm slightly confused as to why you wouldn't go on and rebuild the engine. Compressions are 70+/80 on all cylinders.

I want a Cessna 140, but the wife and daughter want to go with me....

mynuqaza.jpg
 
Wasn't required, in fact Pt 91 it's never required. There are lots of other small parts and other processes that add up to a few thousand dollars that need to be done to call it an overhaul, and pilots are cheap.
 
Looks like the poor airplane was never flown and the cam/lifters got rusted/galled as a result and had to be replaced. The crank was probably overhauled while it was out mostly to fully comply with SB 505B. The problem is the cylinders may also be rusted/galled due to not flying much. I would have them checked (borescoped) to be sure before pulling the trigger. The H2AD is not really a bad engine as long as it it flown frequently. Some will not agree ;-)
 
Henning said:
Wasn't required, in fact Pt 91 it's never required. There are lots of other small parts and other processes that add up to a few thousand dollars that need to be done to call it an overhaul, and pilots are cheap.
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I know pilots are cheap!

I'm looking at this plane knowing the engine will need to be done at some point sooner versus later, and the plane is priced accordingly.
 
Assume you are going to have to spend in the high $20k range for an engine soon and figure that into your purchase price. Or spend a little more to upgrade to the 180.

What is the rest of the plane like and how much are you going to want/be able to sink into that? Paint job, Panel upgrades? Plexiglass, interior?

Have you read the thread on pre-buys? Good info in there.
 
Let me see if I understand ...

THe engine was pulled off the airframe, the case was split, the bottom end was "serviced" but no mention of looking at valves? Reinstalled the old piston rings?

I'm not understanding ...

By the way, a C-170 is a C-140 on steroids and a hell of a lot easier to work on than your 172. Did'ja look around for a good 170? The ragwing is about 5 knots faster than the later A/B metal wings.

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
Let me see if I understand ...

THe engine was pulled off the airframe, the case was split, the bottom end was "serviced" but no mention of looking at valves? Reinstalled the old piston rings?

I'm not understanding ...

By the way, a C-170 is a C-140 on steroids and a hell of a lot easier to work on than your 172. Did'ja look around for a good 170? The ragwing is about 5 knots faster than the later A/B metal wings.

Jim
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I'm looking for one of those also. My hunt continues, problem is I can't make up my mind.
 
Perhaps the top end had been done at some reasonable time in the past. There's no reason to replace perfectly good cylinders just because you're doing the bottom end because it's generally going to outlast them anyway - even if they were new. Also, with all the crap going on with new cylinders these days I'd hold onto any that were doing fine with no AD's.
 
Your all missing the fact that it was an H2AD, they crapped cams and lifters left & right. The cheap owner decided not to overhaul it. Then there is the crank AD on 160 HP lycs
 
Why do you and others automatically categorize the owner as cheap when you have no idea of the financial consequences to him of his decision?
bnt83 said:
Your all missing the fact that it was an H2AD, they crapped cams and lifters left & right. The cheap owner decided not to overhaul it. Then there is the crank AD on 160 HP lycs
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bnt83 said:
Your all missing the fact that it was an H2AD, they crapped cams and lifters left & right. The cheap owner decided not to overhaul it. Then there is the crank AD on 160 HP lycs
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You know, considering the fact that he is now trying to sell it I'm gonna have to agree.
 
N2124v said:
I am considering a 1978 172N that has the factory engine and 2200 total time. This was a logbook entry from a few years ago. I'm slightly confused as to why you wouldn't go on and rebuild the engine. Compressions are 70+/80 on all cylinders.
Click to expand...
AFaIK, this engine absolutely must have Lycoming's anti-scuff agent in the oil. If operated without it or if the engine is started when cold without pre-heat, pre-mature camshaft failure and subsequent replacement is usually the result.
 
N2124v said:
I am considering a 1978 172N that has the factory engine and 2200 total time. This was a logbook entry from a few years ago. I'm slightly confused as to why you wouldn't go on and rebuild the engine. Compressions are 70+/80 on all cylinders.

I want a Cessna 140, but the wife and daughter want to go with me....

mynuqaza.jpg
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Looks like a shop work order sign off, they did what they were paid for.

Why was it done? the engine probably failed the AD on the lifter replacement. they can be removed and the cam inspected with out splitting the case. Some one probably saw some thing they didn't like, and milked the golden cow.
 
Hey Tom
I usually agree with your take on things aeronautical. Not quite sure where you are going with that last post though. That guy has rebuilt 3 engines for me and you will not find a more ethical or meticulous engine mech. anywhere. If something needed done he did it. If it didn't he told you why. Unless you personally have had other experiences with him, since his name has been put up on a public board it might be better not to make guesses about his work.
Howard
 
Howard Wilson said:
Hey Tom
I usually agree with your take on things aeronautical. Not quite sure where you are going with that last post though. That guy has rebuilt 3 engines for me and you will not find a more ethical or meticulous engine mech. anywhere. If something needed done he did it. If it didn't he told you why. Unless you personally have had other experiences with him, since his name has been put up on a public board it might be better not to make guesses about his work.
Howard
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My post was not about the quality of his work, it's more to the point of why it was sent to them.

Some body had to pull it off the aircraft. Why?
 
Has is occurred to you that owners routinely share logs and MX records with potential buyers or on public websites?

Tom-D said:
My post was not about the quality of his work, it's more to the point of why it was sent to them.

Some body had to pull it off the aircraft. Why?
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wabower said:
Has is occurred to you that owners routinely share logs and MX records with potential buyers or on public websites?
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I'm missing your point?
 
This was done by the previous owner and the current owner has no idea why. I had heard these engines had some issues and that is why I posted this here, just trying to get some information based on past experience as to why this might have been done.
 
N2124v said:
This was done by the previous owner and the current owner has no idea why. I had heard these engines had some issues and that is why I posted this here, just trying to get some information based on past experience as to why this might have been done.
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The H2AD has had a few major alterations over the years the biggest id the case "T" mode completed by Chuck Ney.

Check your records and see if that mod has ever been completed, it cured most of the cam issues.
 
N2124v said:
This was done by the previous owner and the current owner has no idea why. I had heard these engines had some issues and that is why I posted this here, just trying to get some information based on past experience as to why this might have been done.
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IIRC the cam and lifters had some galling problems on the H2AD engine. The work done in the logbook that you posted should have taken care of the problem. In my experience the mechanic that did that work is one of the best!

Regards Howard
 
Tom-D said:
My post was not about the quality of his work, it's more to the point of why it was sent to them.

Some body had to pull it off the aircraft. Why?
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From the sounds of it, it had ate a cam lobe, not rare on a Lycoming that barely flies. While it's open, freshening the bottom end, especially if there's an AD on the crank requiring service the next time the engine is open, makes sense to me.
 
Howard Wilson said:
IIRC the cam and lifters had some galling problems on the H2AD engine. The work done in the logbook that you posted should have taken care of the problem. In my experience the mechanic that did that work is one of the best!

Regards Howard
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Cams are a problem on all Lycomings that sit.
 
A question about your user name ...

It appears that this N-number was abandoned when the 172S that it was assigned to was imported into Canada. It has not been reserved to any other entity.

Why are you using it?

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
A question about your user name ...

It appears that this N-number was abandoned when the 172S that it was assigned to was imported into Canada. It has not been reserved to any other entity.

Why are you using it?

Jim
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Why does that matter any more than all the other posters that use a moniker to duck the responsibility of the their statements.?
You, me, Ron, and several other post in the open take our lumps, when we make mistakes. It is my opinion that those who elect to hide and snipe are simply cowards that can't take responsibility for their actions.
IMHO there can be no credibility with out identity.
 
Tom-D said:
Why does that matter any more than all the other posters that use a moniker to duck the responsibility of the their statements.?
/
no, No, NO, I just thought that maybe you were reserving it on the off chance that you would find an early C-120/140. THat was the sequence they used back in 1946, at least on the 120 I had at the time (2014V).

I just wanted to let you know that that number is up for grabs.

Jim
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weirdjim said:
A question about your user name ...

It appears that this N-number was abandoned when the 172S that it was assigned to was imported into Canada. It has not been reserved to any other entity.

Why are you using it?

Jim
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I bought N2124V new from Cessna in July of 2003 to use in the flight school I owned. No reason other than I liked the plane and the N number.

As far as posting, when I first got on the site I saw a lot of N numbers used as ID's so I picked this one. Not trying to hide, just the way it is.

Wade
 
For the purposes of buying this plane, the engine is 33 years with 2200 hours. For aircraft valuation purposes, it needs an overhaul.
 
If it was me once you split the case you might as well do a full OH on a high time engine. That's what I did. In the end only the case was re-usable. What you have is a new bottom end attached to an old top end and accessories. But not zero time.
 
Clip4 said:
For the purposes of buying this plane, the engine is 33 years with 2200 hours. For aircraft valuation purposes, it needs an overhaul.
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No, the engine value in the appraisal report simply will be reduced by the hours and years calculation in the software. Needing an overhaul is a different issue.
 
Prop strike? Then the cam and lifter work was ancillary to the crank insp cause it was an H2 engine. meh - I don't know but it sounds like a prop strike insp to me.
 
docmirror said:
Prop strike? Then the cam and lifter work was ancillary to the crank insp cause it was an H2 engine. meh - I don't know but it sounds like a prop strike insp to me.
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If I broke open the engine to do the cam, as long as the line bore checked good I'd do the same thing he did, rods, bearings and bolts and polish the crank if it needed it.
 
Crank and rods magged, check flange. sounds like prop strike to me, and WYAIT, do the cam and lifters. If it was split to just do cam work, why all the fussing with the crank and rods?
 
docmirror said:
Crank and rods magged, check flange. sounds like prop strike to me, and WYAIT, do the cam and lifters. If it was split to just do cam work, why all the fussing with the crank and rods?
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Why not? Besides, wasn't there an AD on that crank? If you have the engine open, you already have 3/4 of the expense of freshening up the bottom end done.
 
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