Borderline Personality Disorder

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Hi all. I need some medical advice as it could effect my flying.

I have been on a roller coaster ride of a relationsip and marriage with a woman whom I strongly believe has Borderline Personality Disorder. She is undiagnosed and refuses to seek treatment. The relationship was extremely great at first but became gradually more and more abusive to the point of entering the surreal. Its crushed my spirit and soul and I am a shell of my former self. I am suffering from mild to moderatedepression. Sometimes worse than others.

Is there anything I can do that would not effect my medical to help my depression? Anything I can take? I know exercise, joining support groups, going to therapy, etc are all things I can do and once I get a little more will power I will start.

Advice?
 
Get started sooner rather than later you may not feel you have the drive but the sooner you get started the sooner the cloud will lift. Also this stuff can be worked through without meds. Certainly not shrink but sounds like your depression is what they call situational depression related to your spouses issues. Hang in there.
 
I agree whole heartedly with Adam's advice.

One thing if you go the professional help route (a good choice) is that you can explain up front the FAA medical issue. Paying cash keeps them from attaching a diagnosis for insurance purposes.

That said if you do have clinical depression, getting it treated properly is more important than loosing your medical. So remember skin, tin, then ticket.

Joe
 
Unregistered said:
Is there anything I can do that would not effect my medical to help my depression? Anything I can take? I know exercise, joining support groups, going to therapy, etc are all things I can do and once I get a little more will power I will start.

Advice?
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In this case, a divorce and a restraining order sound like a good start. And see a therapist (NOT a psychiatrist.. who will push pills, but a clinical psychologist).
 
Doggtyred said:
In this case, a divorce and a restraining order sound like a good start. And see a therapist (NOT a psychiatrist.. who will push pills, but a clinical psychologist).
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Not all Psychiatrist push the pills. You just have to ask them if they do talk therapy and what their Philosophy is.
 
Doggtyred said:
In this case, a divorce and a restraining order sound like a good start. And see a therapist (NOT a psychiatrist.. who will push pills, but a clinical psychologist).
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I agree. You won't get better and stay better until that happens. Don't look back.
 
Unfortuantely I can't give medical advice, just cwertification advice. From the FAA perspective you can go all the group and talk theapy you want, but it's grounding to take a medication.

If you end up on a med, it's important for easy recert. to keep the exposure to less than 6 months (more than 6 mos is not considered "reactive" depression and therefore transient).
 
As far as I'm concerned, if someone goes mental, you have every right to seek a divorce. If they go mental they are not the person you married, and you have no moral obligation of an kind.
 
Unregistered said:
Hi all. I need some medical advice as it could effect my flying.

I have been on a roller coaster ride of a relationsip and marriage with a woman whom I strongly believe has Borderline Personality Disorder. She is undiagnosed and refuses to seek treatment. The relationship was extremely great at first but became gradually more and more abusive to the point of entering the surreal. Its crushed my spirit and soul and I am a shell of my former self. I am suffering from mild to moderatedepression. Sometimes worse than others.

Is there anything I can do that would not effect my medical to help my depression? Anything I can take? I know exercise, joining support groups, going to therapy, etc are all things I can do and once I get a little more will power I will start.

Advice?
Click to expand...


The first thing you need to do is break up with this woman for good. BPD isn't listed as a "pervasive presonality disorder" for no reason. These people can't be fixed they will always abuse and destroy people around them. BPD's, Histrionics, Narcissists and Sociopaths all have the common charachteristics of being selfish, expliotave, and unconcerned for the needs of others. You have to divorce this woman NOW!!! There's no other way.

Just prepare for her behavior to get worse, BPD's are driven by the fear of abandonment. She will at first, make great overatures to mend the relationship, then become more abusive than ever.

I take it you've read the DSM-IV on BPD??
 
steingar said:
As far as I'm concerned, if someone goes mental, you have every right to seek a divorce. If they go mental they are not the person you married, and you have no moral obligation of an kind.
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BPD usually manifests in late adolescence/ early adulthood. She likely had it when he married her, but since BPD's are often Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hyde personalites, it can take years for the dark side to emerge.
 
Yeah, well if I find I'm married to a Sith Lord I'll be hitting up a divorce attorney in a hurry. That kind of piece of mind would be worth everything I own, which is what it would probably cost me.
 
I do not know what I am going to do at this point, but I am going to take some time and think. I know its not an illness that is easily cured. Being in the relationship has alternated from being great to absolute an utter HELL.

Yes, I new she had issues prior to the marriage but was told by her that the security of marriage was all she needed and things would straighten out. It did for a few months, then the games began again.

I didn't know about BPD until after I was married to her and was told by a therapist that this is a distinct probability.

Capt Crashn Burn,

You know what you are talking about. You are spot on.

I am going to work on healing myself and becoming me again. Thanks for all the kind words and advice.
 
It is an illness if the symptomatic party refuses treatment, which you've said has occurred. Get out of there fast. I'd rather be poor and happy than rich and miserable. Good luck.
 
I'm normally a 'in sickness and in health' devotee, and figure once married, you're in it for the long haul, making the best of whatever you have.

But I draw the line at BPD. Had a relative-in-law with it. Yikes. She was very odd, but in the early years, could be so thoughtful and dear. She seemed to use an 'it's you and me against the evil world' strategy, along with some oddball health regimes and fundamentalism to make herself indispensable. As the years wore on, though, she got more and more controlling, demandingly dependent, with much self-absorbed histrionic health trouble- deathly allergic to everything, crazy dietary restrictions, forever falling and 'spraining' ankles, much iffy surgery- your all-purpose invalid/victim. When people got tired of the games, she became downright spooky. The last straw was when she started making up stories about rape and undetectable physical abuse and calling the police on her husband, who was playing with a somewhat wonky deck himself. Thankfully, this pair never had children... that would have been truly disastrous.

So, I'm all for creating some real distance between me and any Borderline. For some reason, they seem to need to destroy all in their path.
 
I am not even sure exactly what Borderline Personality Disorder is, but, what little I've heard sounds very bad. It almost sounds sociopathic but I may have that wrong. I wouldn't stick around to find out, as cold as that sounds.
 
Amelia said:
I'm normally a 'in sickness and in health' devotee, and figure once married, you're in it for the long haul, making the best of whatever you have.

But I draw the line at BPD.
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It seems to be a game changer doesn't it?


So, I'm all for creating some real distance between me and any Borderline. For some reason, they seem to need to destroy all in their path.
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And that is my greatest fear. I will lose everything if I stay with her.
 
Losing everything if you stay? That's a real possibility, poor Mr. Unreg. My in-law did. I so hope you can find whatever support you need. I suspect if there were any hope for her getting better, you'd do whatever you could, but I believe Cap'n Crash and Burn is right- from all I've heard, Borderlines aren't really treatable.

But depression is. Do take care of yourself- and allow yourself to be cared for, by the mentally-healthiest people you know.
 
Capt.Crash'n'Burn said:
The first thing you need to do is break up with this woman for good. BPD isn't listed as a "pervasive presonality disorder" for no reason. These people can't be fixed they will always abuse and destroy people around them. BPD's, Histrionics, Narcissists and Sociopaths all have the common charachteristics of being selfish, expliotave, and unconcerned for the needs of others. You have to divorce this woman NOW!!! There's no other way.

Just prepare for her behavior to get worse, BPD's are driven by the fear of abandonment. She will at first, make great overatures to mend the relationship, then become more abusive than ever.

I take it you've read the DSM-IV on BPD??
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So, how many actual normal people are out there, and how do you detect the above early? I worked for a narcissist, he could be as charming as all get out as long as he was getting his way.
 
woodstock said:
I am not even sure exactly what Borderline Personality Disorder is, but, what little I've heard sounds very bad. It almost sounds sociopathic but I may have that wrong. I wouldn't stick around to find out, as cold as that sounds.
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Borderline is a throwback term to the old days,. and this was considered "on the borderline of being schizophrenic" as it was defined back then.

A more modern, more accurately descriptive label is "emotionally unstable personality disorder". The hallmarks have already been described by a few others already, but one key attribute is the manipulative behavior (up to the point of self mutilation). Essentially, "you wont do what I want, so I'm gonna hurt myself until I get it". Impulsiveness, risk taking, emotional lability, tendencies towards quick gratification (which can include substance abuse) also tend to be present. As can criminal behavior such as theft and shoplifting. They see it, they want it, they take it.

Mood disorders such as bipolar, depression and the such, are the result of chemical imbalances (or sometimes in the case of depression, bad circumstances or situations),. and treatable with meds.

Personality disorders are essentially a mis-wiring of your behavior centers. Borderline, schizophrenia, sociopaths, narcissists, and the like... these folks are miswired and in all but the rarest of circumstances do not overcome these hurdles. They do not know how to have a normal relationship with others, and usually do not even think they are the one with the problem.

And... personality disorders have a strong genetic component. I would think long and hard about having kids with this woman. Not only will the kid have to live with a defective parent, theres a very significant chance they will get a dose of it too....
 
woodstock said:
So, how many actual normal people are out there, and how do you detect the above early? I worked for a narcissist, he could be as charming as all get out as long as he was getting his way.
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The personality disorders really tend to manifest in adolescence and early adulthood. I've encountered quite a few patients who have their "first psychotic break" in college.
 
woodstock said:
I am not even sure exactly what Borderline Personality Disorder is, but, what little I've heard sounds very bad.
Click to expand...

The wiki article on BPD is a good start.

It almost sounds sociopathic but I may have that wrong.
Click to expand...

No, you have that right! BPD's share many of the same traits as sociopaths. They're both considered "Axis II, cluster B" personality disorders.

I wouldn't stick around to find out, as cold as that sounds.
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No, that's not cold at all. BPD's are self-destructive and destroy those around them.
 
woodstock said:
So, how many actual normal people are out there, and how do you detect the above early? I worked for a narcissist, he could be as charming as all get out as long as he was getting his way.
Click to expand...


Well, as far as detecting BPD's goes, here's the diagnostic criteria out of the DSM-IV.

A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image and affects, as well as marked impulsivity, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
  1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5
  2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.
  3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.
  4. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., promiscuous sex, eating disorders, binge eating, substance abuse, reckless driving). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5
  5. Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, threats or self-injuring behavior such as cutting, interfering with the healing of scars (excoriation) or picking at oneself.
  6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).
  7. Chronic feelings of emptiness
  8. Inappropriate anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).
  9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation, delusions or severe dissociative symptoms
 
Doggtyred said:
And... personality disorders have a strong genetic component. I would think long and hard about having kids with this woman. Not only will the kid have to live with a defective parent, theres a very significant chance they will get a dose of it too....
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Actually, there's little evidence linking BPD to genetics. There's only one study that found possible links AFAIK.

It's more closely associated with environmental factors, especially abuse in childhood.
 
This is depressing.

OP, get out as soon as you can. You ain't fixin' her.

Throwing yourself into flying (absent the dead weight) will give you a goal and hopefully will help you climb out.
 
Thanks all.

Amelia and Woodstock as women, I really appreciate your thoughts and kind words. And thanks to the other well wishers and mental healthcare pro's. I feel like you are all family to me.

The problem is I am a bit stuck on dwelling on when the times were good. The characteristic of the BPD is to really hook you my treating you very special and catering to your needs. Then once they have a committment from you they start to tear you down in a very vicious way which includes cycling back to the good person and the starting all over. It really throws you off balance.

For example, every time I would call and try to talk sense to my wife she would just rage at me and insult me to the point of hysteria. That was just a few days ago. Yesterday, I get a very sweet and nice text message from her. She feels me pulling away so I believe is now trying to test the waters to suck me back in. I have always bit before and reconciled with her. This time I am just too scared, but the urge is still there and it is creating huge conflicted feelings within me.
 
Same as physical spousal abuse. First, the physical abuse, and then the apologies ("although really, it is your fault"). I've heard this same story before in numerous guises. The sad thing is she can't help it, she has a disease. But it doesn't have to ruin your life any more than it already has. Again, good luck.
 
steingar said:
Same as physical spousal abuse. First, the physical abuse, and then the apologies ("although really, it is your fault"). I've heard this same story before in numerous guises. The sad thing is she can't help it, she has a disease. But it doesn't have to ruin your life any more than it already has. Again, good luck.
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Thank you Steingar for your thoughts and well wishes. I know she is just nuts. Iknowit in my heart as we have been together for some time and the history of abuse, raging, insults, and destructiveness has put me tothe breaking point. I am actually afraid to get back together with her for many reason. Financial, physical, mental stabiltiy, career, etc. I could lose it all and I have a lot to lose. If I get out now Ican really limit my losses. If Istay in, who knows? I do lover her, and took my marriage vows VERY seriously. However, I just can't take it anymore.
 
Unregistered said:
Thanks all.

Amelia and Woodstock as women, I really appreciate your thoughts and kind words. And thanks to the other well wishers and mental healthcare pro's. I feel like you are all family to me.

The problem is I am a bit stuck on dwelling on when the times were good. The characteristic of the BPD is to really hook you my treating you very special and catering to your needs. Then once they have a committment from you they start to tear you down in a very vicious way which includes cycling back to the good person and the starting all over. It really throws you off balance.

For example, every time I would call and try to talk sense to my wife she would just rage at me and insult me to the point of hysteria. That was just a few days ago. Yesterday, I get a very sweet and nice text message from her. She feels me pulling away so I believe is now trying to test the waters to suck me back in. I have always bit before and reconciled with her. This time I am just too scared, but the urge is still there and it is creating huge conflicted feelings within me.
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I strongly suggest you resist that urge.

What Steingar said earlier about a spouse with BPD not being the same person one married got me to wondering about whether it would be considered grounds for annulment by the Catholic church. Not that I have any reason to believe that you're Catholic, mind you, but the body of Canon Law (like civil law) sometimes contains surprisingly interesting insights. So I asked around.

I was somewhat surprised to learn that yes, the Catholic church will entertain petitions for annulment based on a diagnosis of BPD, especially early on in a marriage, and even more especially if the condition was concealed from or otherwise not known to the non-BPD spouse at the time of marriage. In the former case, it would be considered deception, and in the latter case it would call into question whether there was informed consent.

Again, this may or may not mean anything to you. But I think the reasoning is something you may want to consider with regard to the question of how much, if any, obligation you have to your marriage at this point.

This must be a harrowing experience for you. I hope you seek out and find the help that you need for healing.

-Rich
 
Failure to perform as advertised is cause for divorce, just as surely as it is cause for selling an airplane.

I've been there and done that, took me 4 and a half years to finally pull the plug on her but I've never regretted it. Fixing her is beyond your control - but you can still fix you. Time to move on.
 
RJM62 said:
This must be a harrowing experience for you. I hope you seek out and find the help that you need for healing.

-Rich
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Rich,

Its one of the most emotionally and physically draining issues that I think I have ever faced. Its hard for the mind and soul to reconcile the hate, rage, insults, and violent behavior from someone who just a few minutes before was the greatest person on earth to you.

I am a strong person, but she has reduced me to a shell of my former self. As I stay apart from her, I am starting to feel stronger, but its a gradual thing and I still think aobut the dream I had with her and the addiction (co-dependency) I have developed. They are really difficult to seperate from.

Thanks for the kind words.
 
Unregistered said:
Woodstock,

We are currently seperated. Thanks for your thoughts.
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Good start! Now stop reinforcing the pain. Take her numbers off speed dial and set boundaries with her about expecting callbacks. If there are no kids, thank your lucky stars - someone above is watching out for you.
 
Thanks for the words of encouragement Woodstock.

Getting through the holidays was rough. I leaned on family and friends hard. I just have to look ahead to a better 2011, but I am just so tired of feeling sad, lonely and abandoned.
 
Unregistered;661353 I leaned on family and friends hard. I just have to look ahead to a better 2011 said:
Im not the OP... Just wanted to say how familiar this sounds and how much this thread has helped me, My ex girlfriend was never diagnosed with this but it seems like this is similar to what she had.

Just advice, know who your friends are and don't be afraid to lean on them thats what got me through it in one piece. I know exactly how you feel however likely not as in depth. Hang in there! Thank you for making this thread it has helped me through some of the post-issues that accompany this.
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