BOEING 767F crash near Houston in the bay Atlas cargo

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by RyanShort1, Feb 23, 2019.

  1. Bell206

    Bell206 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Speculate? No. Speculation is thinking the stab jackscrew failed because it doesn't have a regular nut on it with no other reference.

    On the other hand, the control column and throttles were shoved forward at the same time, so what could cause that?
     
  2. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    Funny you mention that. We used to do seat swaps in the BUFF, in the VFR PATTERN! That's safing the seat, unstrap, jump out, let the other guy in, he straps all the harness, seat and oxygen connections back in, to include hastily adjust the size of the harness straps to fit you btw (since the Buff uses old parachutes that include the harness, as opposed to the new seats in the B-1 where people have individual chuteless harnesses they wear and are fitted individually), unstow the column aaaaand... perch to a touch n go! Oh, and accomplish that task at night. Yeah buddy!

    Pretty stupid stuff indeed. Honestly though, that's the only stuff I actually remember fondly out of my tour of duty in that flying museum. The rest was effing drudgery you couldn't pay me to endure again. Pattern-work and Air-refueling is about all that kept me from writing the whole military thing off as a vocational mistake (for me). Well, that and a wartime tasker. But I never got the chance to, so that's water under the bridge.

    All that aside, for part 121 yeah I agree, I cannot imagine a good reason they'd be fiddling around with seat swaps during critical phases of flight.
     
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  3. TCABM

    TCABM Line Up and Wait

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    Y’all ever do seat swaps in pre-contact?
     
  4. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    We'd back out to the geographic position, but not call ready until the new seat got back up online and unstowed his column. From a positional perspective (as opposed to legalities), it was de facto pre-contact, and yeah it happened all the time. We might have even let the EWO have a hack at AR once (dry contact attempt), but I can't confirm nor deny that urban legend :fingerwag:
     
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  5. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 Cleared for Takeoff

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    With the limited data being given, all you can do is speculate what caused it, which is exactly my point. You don't know, I don't know, the so called experts on CNN don't know. Anything any of us come up with from incomplete information is speculation.

    The NTSB has more information, but they have to validate it and determine if it is pertinent to the investigation. They will ultimately figure it out, but that takes time. I say just wait until we have complete information rather than small selected nuggets. Often times these initial findings become irrelevant in the final conclusion.
     
  6. Todd82

    Todd82 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Honest question to possibly nip this in the bud real fast. Would a relatively old cargo 763 even have any kind of "connection" to the web to get hacked? You can't hack what's not connected.
     
  7. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Administrator Management Council Member

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    Theoretical discussion here. Me just answering a question. Please don’t infer I know anything about this accident.

    Sensing a stall. Stick shaker and autothrottle wake up. I wonder if a bird strike taking out the alpha vane would cause something like that.
     
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  8. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Administrator Management Council Member

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    I don’t think even a new one would have that capability.
     
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  9. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    Wouldn't have to be that necessarily - some sort of other exploit, maybe. Just wondering, though.
     
  10. George Foster

    George Foster Filing Flight Plan

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    It might be a software problem with the Max 800. Watching MSNBC and host says there is an FAA data base where pilots can report problems without fear of repercussions. She read three American pilots who reported aggressive nose down events right after take-off which required an immediate auto pilot disconnect; and one non-aggressive decent which also required a disconnect. Time will tell. Interestingly, and something I didn't know, there's only an acting director of the FAA today.
     
  11. ARFlyer

    ARFlyer En-Route

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    That’s an issue with almost every plane flying. I can’t tell you the number of times the autopilot tried to kill me in the airlines. It’s numerous factors that can cause those aggressive nose down events. You just disconnect and reconnect the autopilot. If it tries it again then you write it up and get the gift of hand flying for the rest of the day.
     
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  12. Bell206

    Bell206 Cleared for Takeoff

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    We just disagree on the definition of speculation. Nothing more. Having been involved in a couple dozen NTSB investigations over the years I'll stick to mine. What Greg B contributed above is the answer I was looking for as that is exactly what the NTSB guys are doing: dispproving the obvious. So what do you think caused the throttles and control column to "rapidly" move forward?
     
  13. 3393RP

    3393RP Pattern Altitude

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    That's something that defies rational explanation and makes this incident so puzzling. What the heck happened? It has to make the families' pain even greater.
     
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  14. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Line Up and Wait

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    Not happening. Unless Boeing has some hidden system (a la MCAS) that we pilots don’t know about, there is no link between anything connected to the outside world to the pitch system of a 767.

    We can get lateral route changes loaded into the FMS from ATC via CPDLC (Controller-Pilot Data Link Communications), but that would still involve us opening the CPDLC message, loading the route, then executing the change.
     
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  15. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Would a Cap'n Crunch whistle work? :D
     
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  16. dans2992

    dans2992 En-Route

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    I would think CVR transcript would reveal a lot. Why not release it?
     
  17. ircphoenix

    ircphoenix En-Route

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    Because they aren't necessarily in the business of releasing audio of people dying. Might be a touch rough on the families and it isn't strictly like the public NEEDS the info.
     
  18. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    It is not the U.S. NTSB policy to release it this early, and I would imagine foreign entities would have similar policies. From the NTSB CVR handbook:

    The CVR factual report will not be placed into the docket management system (DMS) until the majority of the factual reports are ready to be publically released. The recorder specialist will place a placeholder in DMS as soon as practical after the initial audition. The placeholder will remain in DMS until it is replaced by the CVR factual report immediately before the report is released to the public.
     
  19. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Cleared for Takeoff

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  20. Hacker

    Hacker Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The video he referenced isn't even of the crash or the 767.

    The two videos released of the actual mishap aircraft show it going quite fast at a steep descent angle at impact.
     
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  21. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    A software problem with a 737 Max 8 brought down a 767-800? :dunno:

    We seem to be confusing Boeing crash threads... And the fact that we can makes me sad.
     
  22. TCABM

    TCABM Line Up and Wait

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    Don’t be questioning speculation ;)
     
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  23. ircphoenix

    ircphoenix En-Route

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    Wasn't it just the one guy? 270 ish posts and only one guy getting the two mixed up... Not bad for an internet forum.
     
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  24. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Well, considering 224 of those 270ish were posted prior to the second plane even going down, I'm not sure our record is that great. ;)
     
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  25. mtuomi

    mtuomi En-Route

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    NTSB said stick shaker was not activated.
     
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  26. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    I wasn’t mixed up, just saying that it’s odd that all three of the latest Boeing crashes involved descending with power... and I agree that the 767 deal probably has nothing to do with the others.
     
  27. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot En-Route

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    Especially since the system installed on the max 737 doesn’t exist on the 767. At least not to my knowledge...
     
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  28. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Not exactly. The two 737MAX crashes were immediately on departure during climb-out. The 767 was descending through 7,000 into its destination. The only commonality was all three were made by Boeing, and all three hit the ground (which is common in crashes).
     
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  29. ircphoenix

    ircphoenix En-Route

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    58% of all aviation fatalities occur during the approach to landing phase of flight... so even if all three Boeing products crashed during that phase, it'd only be a little weird that it was 3 out of 3 instead of 2 out of 3.

    Takeoff and climb accounts for about 22%.

    So it statistically is weird... but not for the reasons you alluded to.

    It's okay to make mistakes. I do all the time.
     
  30. ircphoenix

    ircphoenix En-Route

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    Also we were talking about George Foster I believe