Blew a tire..

Shepherd

Shepherd

Final Approach
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Shepherd
During takeoff yesterday, just as I was rotating, the plane lurched to the left. I figure didn't have enough rudder for the crosswind. No biggy. The plane was flying fine so I went off to my first stop, 63 nm up the river.
When I got there, I decided to practice my soft field technique as I hadn't ever flown one in this particular C-172M. So, 40 degrees on the flaps, slow her way down, nose high enough to drag the tail skid. Some folks were watching so I juiced it a little and kept the nose off until I got to the turn off and very slowly set it down. At which point the plane went nuts.
The lurch on take off was my nose wheel blowing.
The mechanics flew up and changed the tire and tube and I went off on the rest of my adventure.
That's the first time that's ever happened to me.
 
I blew one too, well actually I took off in snow, with wheel pants on and I guess it froze up in flight and when I landed it ripped the valve stem out. I started taking my wheel pants off after that.
 
Reminds me of my time at moody afb...in the summer the t-38's would pop tires when landing and would have to be towed. T-6's would would also
 
Geico266 said:
Why would you purposefully drag the tail? :eek:

Very poor airman ship, IMHO.
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Those factory builts can handle it and even have a skid on the back for such occasion. When you hear it grind, it means you're doing it right.
 
Shepherd said:
During takeoff yesterday, just as I was rotating, the plane lurched to the left. I figure didn't have enough rudder for the crosswind. No biggy. The plane was flying fine so I went off to my first stop, 63 nm up the river.
When I got there, I decided to practice my soft field technique as I hadn't ever flown one in this particular C-172M. So, 40 degrees on the flaps, slow her way down, nose high enough to drag the tail skid. Some folks were watching so I juiced it a little and kept the nose off until I got to the turn off and very slowly set it down. At which point the plane went nuts.
The lurch on take off was my nose wheel blowing.
The mechanics flew up and changed the tire and tube and I went off on the rest of my adventure.
That's the first time that's ever happened to me.
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Hmmm....how big was that fish again? :D
 
fits into the feces happens category

if you are living to write the tale it worked out.
 
bartmc said:
Those factory builts can handle it and even have a skid on the back for such occasion. When you hear it grind, it means you're doing it right.
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:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Ah, ya right. I just look through he POH for a 172. Nothing in there about dragging the tail skid is " doing it right" . This is the advice you would give a student? Drag the tail is fine?
 
I stood on the brakes to make a turn off at Oshkosh last year and blew the right main on the Navion. Fortunately there were some 7.00x8's in the fly market.
 
Geico266 said:
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Ah, ya right. I just look through he POH for a 172. Nothing in there about dragging the tail skid is " doing it right" . This is the advice you would give a student? Drag the tail is fine?
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Easy to do. Never hurt anything. Tie down ring on my 150 was about wore thru the loop...

It sweet when your thouch & go is smooth enough with high enough pitch to touch the mains, apply power and lift off without the nose ever touching.
 
Geico266 said:
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Ah, ya right. I just look through he POH for a 172. Nothing in there about dragging the tail skid is " doing it right" . This is the advice you would give a student? Drag the tail is fine?
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The Cessna's with the eye bolt don't handle it as well as the pipers with the beefy skid/tail tie down. Walk any flight line with trainers on it, the eye bolt will be scracted up and probably bent and the Pipers tail tie down hook will have plenty of iron missing. I probably drug the tail half a dozen times during my training. I'm not a CFI, but it's nothing to be alarmed about, and if you're getting a good wheelie, it happens.
 
bnt83 said:
Easy to do. Never hurt anything. Tie down ring on my 150 was about wore thru the loop...

It sweet when your thouch & go is smooth enough with high enough pitch to touch the mains, apply power and lift off without the nose ever touching.
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So hitting the tail on the ground is in the Cessna 150 POH also? :dunno:

:mad2:

Seriously, boys, it may maybe easy go do in your world, but it is not "okay" with Cessna, nor is hitting the tail on the ground acceptable in any nose geared airplane. :no:
 
Geico266 said:
So hitting the tail on the ground is in the Cessna 150 POH also? :dunno:

:mad2:

Seriously, boys, it may maybe easy go do in your world, but it is not "okay" with Cessna, nor is hitting the tail on the ground acceptable in any nose geared airplane. :no:
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Draggin' the tail a little beats planting the nosewheel in a gopher hole on a soggy field and going over the handlebars. Lack of inclusion in the POH doesn't mean forbidden. Sometimes you have to fly the plane in the conditions you're facing. if OP can confidently get a tail drag in conditions where he needs too, he's a good stick. I'd rather ride with him than someone who's never done it.
 
Geico266 said:
So hitting the tail on the ground is in the Cessna 150 POH also? :dunno:

:mad2:

Seriously, boys, it may maybe easy go do in your world, but it is not "okay" with Cessna, nor is hitting the tail on the ground acceptable in any nose geared airplane. :no:[/Q


Some of us fly the airplane to the edge as close to the runways as possible during practice, feeling out the limit. They dont even stall in that pitch attitude.

Some run out of elevator travel before the tail touches. Really depends on loading CG
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I had to look at your location to see if you were the reason we held for 20 minutes yesterday evening... :)
 
You know the airplane won't fly any slower during landing when the tail touches the ground, assuming its a steady flare and not over-correcting for high sink.
 
We were watching my (former) CFII with a student from the terminal last fall, in his '74 172, teaching his student to land the way he likes it done (which is waaayyy nose up) and though I didn't notice it, one of the onlookers said that he had struck the tail. He is not well liked around the airport and this elicited some snickers. I opined that he ought to check for damage, but everyone else thought it was no big deal. I didn't question further but didn't understand at the time why it was worth a few laughs but nothing more.

Personally I'd consider a nose-in-the-air landing like that in my Cardinal quite bad form. It's actually very easy to do thanks to the stabilator, in fact too easy, and a good way to stall the airplane onto the runway from a few feet up if done too early. It is also totally unnecessary, as the mains will touch first WELL before the nose is so high that you can't see the runway over the cowl. I've not seen any evidence that the former owner ever dragged the tail, which I find, well, mildly reassuring.

And oh yes, I blew a nosewheel tire on landing last summer, luckily at home base. Mine was the SECOND tire to be blown on the field that day, by weird coincidence. The plane didn't go nuts, but it was obvious there was a huge amount of drag there and a lot of bouncing. My main concern at the time was the thought that maybe it was the strut that had collapsed instead of the tire, resulting in a possible prop strike. Dumb idea in hindsight though, since a turning prop hitting the pavement would have been pretty obvious.
 
azure said:
We were watching my (former) Personally I'd consider a nose-in-the-air landing like that in my Cardinal quite bad form. It's actually very easy to do thanks to the stabilator, in fact too easy, and a good way to stall the airplane onto the runway from a few feet up if done too early
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I've got about 50 hours is a 1968 177, and it's possible to do the touch & go without the nose touching as well. The stall in the 68 at least, is a lot sharper as you mention, than a C150 or C172. Also, the 177 is much more difficult to flare with only two people, lots of fuel and anything about 2/3 flap or more, which makes a tail strike nearly impossible with that load and flap setting IMO
 
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I've never flown any early model Cardinals. Mine is a '76 RG, which is also the model/year I was first checked out in. Believe me, coming straight from the 172 world, I came close to hitting the tail a couple of times before my CFI coached me into a tamer way of flaring. It's definitely more nose-heavy than a 172, but still, that stabilator has enough authority to lift the nose high in the air even down close to stall speed.
 
azure said:
I've never flown any early model Cardinals. Mine is a '76 RG, which is also the model/year I was first checked out in. Believe me, coming straight from the 172 world, I came close to hitting the tail a couple of times before my CFI coached me into a tamer way of flaring. It's definitely more nose-heavy than a 172, but still, that stabilator has enough authority to lift the nose high in the air even down close to stall speed.
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Best handling high wing cessna produced after you get over the pitch control difference
 
Wait until one of ya'll have to pay to have that rear fuselage bulkhead replaced, because you knocked the tie down ring off.

That ring is a 1/4"X28 threaded eye bolt anchored thru the skin and 1 layer of structure.
To replace the anchor nut and skin the way the structural repair manual says to is about $4500.00

Go ahead and drag them if you got the bucks, we mechanics need the work.
 
Tom-D said:
Wait until one of ya'll have to pay to have that rear fuselage bulkhead replaced, because you knocked the tie down ring off.

That ring is a 1/4"X28 threaded eye bolt anchored thru the skin and 1 layer of structure.
To replace the anchor nut and skin the way the structural repair manual says to is about $4500.00

Go ahead and drag them if you got the bucks, we mechanics need the work.
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:yes::yes:.

I have seen a few Cessna's that have wrinkled the tailcone from dragging the tail in during landings..... It is a pi$$ poor way of handling an aircraft.:(
 
Tom-D said:
Wait until one of ya'll have to pay to have that rear fuselage bulkhead replaced, because you knocked the tie down ring off.

That ring is a 1/4"X28 threaded eye bolt anchored thru the skin and 1 layer of structure.
To replace the anchor nut and skin the way the structural repair manual says to is about $4500.00

Go ahead and drag them if you got the bucks, we mechanics need the work.
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I've seen many replaced, about 15 bucks IIRC. and that's if it's worn through. If it's just bent a little, a pair of vice grips work fine. My old cherokee had about 3,500 hours of training on it, tail skid was probably missing 1/4" of steel, if you mess that thing up to where it needs replacing, you have bigger problems.
 
bartmc said:
I've seen many replaced, about 15 bucks IIRC. and that's if it's worn through. If it's just bent a little, a pair of vice grips work fine. My old cherokee had about 3,500 hours of training on it, tail skid was probably missing 1/4" of steel, if you mess that thing up to where it needs replacing, you have bigger problems.
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That's fine until you tear one out. the anchor nut is inside the tail cone. The rudder comes off as does the elevators, vertical just to get a new nut in there and a bucking bar to replace the skins and bulkhead.

Or you could put a $15.00 scab patch over it and let it look ugly
 
This particular Cessna (in fact I think all the school planes have this installed) has a large spring steel tail skid to protect the tiedown bolt. It's "U" shaped, 1/8" thick, 1 inch wide and 8 inches long, extending 5 inches past the tiedown bolt and clears the top of the bolt by 2 or more inches. It's there so you can insure nothing happens to the tail if you touch it to the ground. It's a confidence builder. Student pilots can get over their fear of pulling back and not have to worry about breaking anything. Besides, when you practice on real turf you're a chicken if you don't bring a piece of sod home with you. ;)
 
Shepherd said:
During takeoff yesterday, just as I was rotating, the plane lurched to the left. I figure didn't have enough rudder for the crosswind. No biggy. The plane was flying fine so I went off to my first stop, 63 nm up the river.
When I got there, I decided to practice my soft field technique as I hadn't ever flown one in this particular C-172M. So, 40 degrees on the flaps, slow her way down, nose high enough to drag the tail skid. Some folks were watching so I juiced it a little and kept the nose off until I got to the turn off and very slowly set it down. At which point the plane went nuts.
The lurch on take off was my nose wheel blowing.
The mechanics flew up and changed the tire and tube and I went off on the rest of my adventure.
That's the first time that's ever happened to me.
Click to expand...

I did the same thing once - blew just as I rotated. Except that I realized that something was amiss and aborted the takeoff. The ride got pretty rough as I came to a stop - but I managed to keep it on the runway. The local onfield mechanic was on the ball, and came right out with a replacement tire and tube - and fixed it on the spot (I was blocking the runway - though there was little traffic). I was impressed...

Dave
 
Inverted said:
Ummmm no.
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Awwwww hell, my "doin' it right" comment was a little tongue in cheek for Geico, but any plane that's trained more than 2 PPL students has drug the tail a time or two. Best form? probably not? A big deal? Hardly, Any flight school on earth is going to have fleet with ground down tail tie downs. Admittedly , I think it happens mostly on soft field take offs (At least thats where I did it)
 
Why would anyone think a tailstrike is an indicator of a good landing? There's no good reason for it, that I can see, including soft-fields. If you technique is right, you just hold the nose off on the rollout, and keep it as light as possible all the way till tie down.
 
I strike the tail almost every landing in the Citabria. In the Pitts too, come to think of it I do it in a conventional gear plane every single time.
 
:popcorn:

I can afford this popcorn i'm munchin on.. but I can't afford to drag no Cessna tail down the runway :)
 
Drag? No

Bump? Not the end of the world, but when you feel it happen relax the damn back pressure!
 
I rented and pre-flighted a 172 with wheel pants covering all but 1 1/2" of tire. I had planned on taking my niece and son flying. Like always, I took it around the pattern once to check things out. All was good. Taxied to the apron, shut down, loaded them up, briefed and started back up. Taxied 20' and heard loud balloon-like squealing noise for 5 seconds. Left side dropped 4" and I shut it down. Much easier exiting the plane this way. A&P removed pant and tire and I counted 8 areas worn into the nylon plies and one to the inner tube. My LAST rental landing was perfect by the way. My next flight was in an RV-10 for transition training.

Recommend removing your pants on rentals/training aircraft or have someone roll the plane while you inspect with a flashlight. I never have taken my niece up for her first airplane ride.
 
Inverted said:
I strike the tail almost every landing in the Citabria. In the Pitts too, come to think of it I do it in a conventional gear plane every single time.
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Absolutely. :yes:

3 pointing a Tail Dragger is suppose to have the little wheel touch just a hard of the mains.

The nose wheel is a kick stand to keep the prop off the ground. 3 pointing a nose gear airplane is bad form also. Land on the mains and hold off the nose until the speed runs out. On take off hold the stick back slightly to behead the weight off the nose wheel asap.

It's called airmanship.
 
I love how a stray tangent thought from a story about blowing a tire can lead to a very interesting and informative thread about a barely relevant subject. You never know. I like it :)
 
Geico266 said:
Is it in the POH in the 182? :no:

Dragging the tail in a nose geared AP means you screwed up!
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Tell that to Concorde pilots.

Landing very flat requires little skill and hence why students do it.
 
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bnt83 said:
Tell that to Concorde pilots.

Landing very flat requires little skill and hence why students do it.
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I would think that landing VERY flat at will requires great skill. Landing with little control over the attitude of the airplane, on the other hand ... :rofl:
 
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