Biggest improvement in GA in the past few years

[RalphInCA]

I'm getting back into aviation after a four year hiatus. Biggest improvement I can see during that time (besides the fact that GA airports are busy again) are EFBs.

Wow!

Just downloaded FF and started playing around with it. What power! What a great tool!

It's amazing how much information is available - everything from TFRs to weather to gas prices. All from the same software package.

 

[MSPAviator]

I trained in just a simple Cessna 152 with no GPS, an E6B, and a paper chart with my course in pencil.... in 2009.

Now I have a Nexus 7 tablet running Avare for sectionals, airport diagrams, and approach plates. It is great but I think at some level it has taken an element of challenge out of flying cross countries.

 

[rbridges]

relatively new pilot, but SINGLE biggest thing in recent years? I'd go with GPS. Other things would be programs such as foreflight and in flight weather, but GPS would be one of the last things I'd want to give up.

 

[jordane93]

relatively new pilot, but SINGLE biggest thing in recent years? I'd go with GPS. Other things would be programs such as foreflight and in flight weather, but GPS would be one of the last things I'd want to give up.

Definitely. Especially with the newish LPV approaches and other GPS approaches that can come down close to ILS minimums are really cool

 

[bullwinkle]

Biggest Pilot Aid? Ubiquitous GPS on tablets and in panels.

Biggest Safety Advance? Airframe parachute systems.

 

[Henning]

Biggest Pilot Aid? Ubiquitous GPS on tablets and in panels.

Biggest Safety Advance? Airframe parachute systems.

Mmmmm, for safety advance I would vote for "Fuel Flow tied to GPS plotting system." It gives you a really early heads up about fuel range issues in the actual operating environment allowing for either early diversion planning or early slow down and range extension while you still have the fuel to make it a viable option.

 

[N747JB]

I learned to fly in 1984, VOR's and paper charts of course. We bought one of the first Loran units, what a POS, but at the time it was awesome!! It was the old IIMorrow unit that you had to slew in the numbers and change the loran chain manually. If you didn't have the waypoint set or stored before takeoff, you may be at your destination before you got it entered!!! But, I thought I was mister innovation!
Next was the moving map loran/GPS, I bought a KLN 90B in 1996, it was the Mac Daddy of avionics, it had a map and could be used for IFR enroute and approach (I think). Then Garmin came out with the GNS line, the 430 was the real deal, until of course the 530 came out and then WAAS arrived!!
I skipped the 4 course range era, but in the 30 years I have been flying the single biggest improvement is GPS. The biggest improvement in the last 4-5 years is the tablet based charts and navigation. But, it all goes back the GPS.

 

[frfly172]

I vote GPS ,either portable or fixed,and of course Foreflight.

 

[RalphInCA]

I agree that GPS is the biggest advance in the last decade or so. But I was talking about the last three or four years.

They already had GPS before my hiatus.


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[SixPapaCharlie]

Biggest improvement is that I am now a part of it.

 

[stratobee]

Avionics, EFB's etc - all of that has progressed with leaps and bounds. The rest, not so much. We're still wasting our time decoding 50 year old useless TAF's and METAR's and FA reports delivered as gobbledygook. We're still flying behind tractor mags that shower sparks and we're not one inch closer to fadec, electronic injection, electronic ignition, Jet A1 than we were 50 years ago. Room for some serious improvement.

 

[Henning]

I agree that GPS is the biggest advance in the last decade or so. But I was talking about the last three or four years.

They already had GPS before my hiatus.


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Few more years back, but Synthetic Vision is a huge advance in situational awareness in limited visibility, especially operating around mountains.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

relatively new pilot, but SINGLE biggest thing in recent years? I'd go with GPS. Other things would be programs such as foreflight and in flight weather, but GPS would be one of the last things I'd want to give up.

GPS has been around in aviation for a while... 20+ years.

It has certainly improved, with color moving maps, WAAS, portables, etc. but it's been around.

In the last 5 years, the tablet EFB's have to be the biggest thing.

 

[Bill Watson]

I'm surprised no one mentioned cockpit weather - particularly Nexrad images. Whether VFR or IFR, there's a whole lot less weather guessing going on.

It's been out there for a good number of years (thinking Garmin 396 w/XM), but ADS-B is making it ubiquitous.

 

[Jay Honeck]

The greatest advances have been in the experimental aircraft world of avionics. What I installed in my RV last February makes the Starship Enterprise (the original TV series) look "quaint".

It gives me synthetic vision, Highway in the Sky approaches to ANY runway (even grass strips), engine monitoring, traffic and weather -- all at 1/5th the cost of installing a less-capable system in a certificated airplane.

If you want to see the future, look at Dynon, Grand Rapids, Advanced, and the non-certified Garmin stuff.

Of course, NONE of it would be possible without GPS. That satellite constellation truly changed aviation -- and the world.

 

[JHW]

IMO the biggest improvement is the proliferation of companies building new cub clones

 

[docmirror]

It gives me synthetic vision, Highway in the Sky approaches to ANY runway (even grass strips), engine monitoring, traffic and weather -- all at 1/5th the cost of installing a less-capable system in a certificated airplane.

There is a point at which the mandatory FAA cert 'systems' will be installed but completely redundant. They may even be moved to a side place in the certified plane while the modern 'for reference only' instrumentation will actually be used for most if not all flight management. The required instruments will be a relic that are only installed for annual reasons. Sort of like the human appendix.

 

[MickYoumans]

My vote goes for the iPad/GPS/ADS-B revolution too. Last Tuesday, when I was flying to work, the vacuum pump went out on my plane. AI and DG went belley up. With my iPad + WingX + iLevil it was a non-event. Could I fly without it? Sure, but it is really fun flying with it. I also love the ADS-B weather too.

 

[Bill Watson]

The greatest advances have been in the experimental aircraft world of avionics. What I installed in my RV last February makes the Starship Enterprise (the original TV series) look "quaint".

It gives me synthetic vision, Highway in the Sky approaches to ANY runway (even grass strips), engine monitoring, traffic and weather -- all at 1/5th the cost of installing a less-capable system in a certificated airplane.

If you want to see the future, look at Dynon, Grand Rapids, Advanced, and the non-certified Garmin stuff.

My vote goes for the iPad/GPS/ADS-B revolution too. Last Tuesday, when I was flying to work, the vacuum pump went out on my plane. AI and DG went belley up. With my iPad + WingX + iLevil it was a non-event. Could I fly without it? Sure, but it is really fun flying with it. I also love the ADS-B weather too.

Kind of two sides of the same coin. Hopefully the two can be merged in some useful way for certified aircraft short of this dystopian future....

There is a point at which the mandatory FAA cert 'systems' will be installed but completely redundant. They may even be moved to a side place in the certified plane while the modern 'for reference only' instrumentation will actually be used for most if not all flight management. The required instruments will be a relic that are only installed for annual reasons. Sort of like the human appendix.

...but this may be dead on target. We fly for fun people will be snapping the latest portable widgets into our cockpits and occassionally dusting off some required certified stuff relegated to a quiet corner of the panel. Good one!

 

[Alexb2000]

Couple things drove much of this IMO.

Cirrus on the certified side B-slaped the industry and forced then to follow suit or quit selling airplanes. I expect the chute will soon become another must have item.

The experimental companies REALLY got it together. Vans, Lancair, Cub Crafters, on and on, they made it possible to have an experimental that was actually worth having.

Remains to be seen, but Diamond and now more importantly Cessna are making diesels the engine of choice for GA. I expect Cirrus in a couple of years will come out with a diesel version and really apply the pressure. Sure they have growing pains, but the numbers just make too much sense, we'll get there the writings on the wall.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Cirrus on the certified side B-slaped the industry and forced then to follow suit or quit selling airplanes. I expect the chute will soon become another must have item.

If it was going to, it would have already. The SR20 started shipping ~1999. 15 years later, they're still the only manufacturer of certified airplanes that's shipping them on every bird.

Remains to be seen, but Diamond and now more importantly Cessna are making diesels the engine of choice for GA. I expect Cirrus in a couple of years will come out with a diesel version and really apply the pressure. Sure they have growing pains, but the numbers just make too much sense, we'll get there the writings on the wall.

It's sure a slower process than I'd hope. I doubt Cirrus will do it soon, as I don't think there's a diesel that's high powered enough that doesn't come from Diamond.

 

[Alexb2000]

If it was going to, it would have already. The SR20 started shipping ~1999. 15 years later, they're still the only manufacturer of certified airplanes that's shipping them on every bird.



It's sure a slower process than I'd hope. I doubt Cirrus will do it soon, as I don't think there's a diesel that's high powered enough that doesn't come from Diamond.

In 1999 Cessna sold 900 pistons in 2013 206

In 1999 Mooney sold 97 pistons in 2013 0

In 1999 Beechcraft sold 144 in 2013 70

In 1999 Cirrus sold 9 in 2013 276

In 1999 Diamond sold 0 in 2013 139

Seems clear who the comers are, and they're doing it with technology.

 

[Velocity173]

AOA indicators.

 

[Henning]

If it was going to, it would have already. The SR20 started shipping ~1999. 15 years later, they're still the only manufacturer of certified airplanes that's shipping them on every bird.



It's sure a slower process than I'd hope. I doubt Cirrus will do it soon, as I don't think there's a diesel that's high powered enough that doesn't come from Diamond.

Continental has a 230hp 4cyl and should have the 350hp 6cyl shortly, plus they also got the Theilert V-8 program, but yeah taking too much time. Hopefully now that the Chinese control all those programs, things will proceed a bit quicker.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

In 1999 Cessna sold 900 pistons in 2013 206

In 1999 Mooney sold 97 pistons in 2013 0

In 1999 Beechcraft sold 144 in 2013 70

In 1999 Cirrus sold 9 in 2013 276

In 1999 Diamond sold 0 in 2013 139

Seems clear who the comers are, and they're doing it with technology.

Agreed - But that technology is not BRS. It's modern airframes, glass panels, etc.

Diesels seem to be very slow to be adopted, and I don't think that's because of the companies producing them (directly, anyway) - I think it's because pilots know Lyc and Conti and mechanics know them and anyone can work on them. If you have something else, it's harder to get serviced. I'm sure anyone who knows someone who owned a Thielert-powered DA42 or was paying attention during that whole debacle is that much more reluctant to buy an airplane with a new-tech powerplant.

 

[Ted]

We're not one inch closer to fadec, electronic injection, electronic ignition, Jet A1 than we were 50 years ago. Room for some serious improvement.

Not true. Continental is continuing their diesel development and is planning on introducing a diesel variant of the F406, which they bought the rights to. I don't think you can buy a new 182 without a diesel, and expect that to spread through the Cessna lineup. There are certified electronic ignitions for naturally aspirated 4 and 6 cylinder engines. Once a mag timing option is available for 520s, I'll be ordering mine.

 

[jesse]

Whenever someone tells me they're going to put a 430/530 in their airplane I remind them that the 430 was released **12** years before the iPad and that their days are numbered.

I remember when a 430 was amazing. I'm getting old.

 

[Ted]

Whenever someone tells me they're going to put a 430/530 in their airplane I remind them that the 430 was released **12** years before the iPad and that their days are numbered.

I remember when a 430 was amazing. I'm getting old.

True, but the 430/530 still has a lot of life left in them and I'd expect another decade or so of support, at least on WAAS variants. I'd put in a 650/750 today, but would consider installing a 430W/530W depending on the plane.

 

[flyingron]

The moving map is certainly a defining moment, expecially for IFR. Much as I like my autopilot, I'd give it up first for the situational awareness of the map.

My second favorite advance is datalink weather. It's hard to remember the days we used to scud run along without the way of looking to see what was ahead of us.

 

[Bill Watson]

True, but the 430/530 still has a lot of life left in them and I'd expect another decade or so of support, at least on WAAS variants. I'd put in a 650/750 today, but would consider installing a 430W/530W depending on the plane.

I hope so. The 430W makes a great GPS brain to drive experimental EFISs... at least that's how I use it.

 

[Henning]

Avionics, EFB's etc - all of that has progressed with leaps and bounds. The rest, not so much. We're still wasting our time decoding 50 year old useless TAF's and METAR's and FA reports delivered as gobbledygook. We're still flying behind tractor mags that shower sparks and we're not one inch closer to fadec, electronic injection, electronic ignition, Jet A1 than we were 50 years ago. Room for some serious improvement.

Untrue, for a few years now Continental has had certified EFI/FADEC replacements for every application they power ready to convert to. People just don't want to pay the cost to convert. Continental already has out a JetA burning 230hp 4 cyl and at least had a 6cyl 350hp opposed engine, but in the light of them also acquiring the Theilert V8 program, I'm not sure where that stands.

 

[Timmer]

Seems closer to me:

172 Diesel Conversions

182 JT-A which, in fact, is the only 182 Cessna now offers.

 

[Alexb2000]

Couple things drove much of this IMO.

Cirrus on the certified side B-slaped the industry and forced then to follow suit or quit selling airplanes. I expect the chute will soon become another must have item.

The experimental companies REALLY got it together. Vans, Lancair, Cub Crafters, on and on, they made it possible to have an experimental that was actually worth having.

Remains to be seen, but Diamond and now more importantly Cessna are making diesels the engine of choice for GA. I expect Cirrus in a couple of years will come out with a diesel version and really apply the pressure. Sure they have growing pains, but the numbers just make too much sense, we'll get there the writings on the wall.

AND…. Here it is the 300 HP diesel coming in a Cirrus:

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/new...ntinental-to-Debut-at-AirVenture222170-1.html

 

[Henning]

AND…. Here it is the 300 HP diesel coming in a Cirrus:

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/new...ntinental-to-Debut-at-AirVenture222170-1.html

Cool, kinda figured that was coming when the Chinese bought Cirrus and Continental.

 

[Alexb2000]

Cool, kinda figured that was coming when the Chinese bought Cirrus and Continental.

If these are designed for STC applications, I wonder what older airframes would make sense to convert?

 

[Ted]

If these are designed for STC applications, I wonder what older airframes would make sense to convert?

For it to make financial sense those airframes will need to have Continentals already of a similar power and weight. A36 Bonanza and 58 Barons come to mind. Expect to see it start with the new variants.

It may get into some of the higher end Twin Cessnas - think 414A/421C. But those will also need to have equal or greater power to current engines, and be optimized for pressurization and altitude.

 

[Alexb2000]

For it to make financial sense those airframes will need to have Continentals already of a similar power and weight. A36 Bonanza and 58 Barons come to mind. Expect to see it start with the new variants.

It may get into some of the higher end Twin Cessnas - think 414A/421C. But those will also need to have equal or greater power to current engines, and be optimized for pressurization and altitude.

I thought it was interesting that the article mentioned measuring many different cowlings to make sure it would fit. Current production w/ 300HP Continentals Cirrus, Beech, and ???? Not much to measure, reading between the lines maybe part of the marketing is an STC retrofit. If the JTA 182 numbers are any indication a 40% fuel savings would be HUGE. I want one for Miss Piggy.

I agree the 400 series Cessna's would make the most sense if they could handle the altitude.

 

[docmirror]

An STC for FI and better ignition on the 470 family would be the biggest bang for the buck based on the number of engines installed. Lots of O-470 and IO-470 engines that could benefit from better electronic FI and better spark maps.

 

[Ted]

An STC for FI and better ignition on the 470 family would be the biggest bang for the buck based on the number of engines installed. Lots of O-470 and IO-470 engines that could benefit from better electronic FI and better spark maps.

What do you believe EFI would do for a 470? You can already get electronic ignition: www.americanpropeller.com

 

[Ted]

I thought it was interesting that the article mentioned measuring many different cowlings to make sure it would fit. Current production w/ 300HP Continentals Cirrus, Beech, and ???? Not much to measure, reading between the lines maybe part of the marketing is an STC retrofit. If the JTA 182 numbers are any indication a 40% fuel savings would be HUGE. I want one for Miss Piggy.

I agree the 400 series Cessna's would make the most sense if they could handle the altitude.

If I had to guess, they're first looking at the SR22, C350/400, and G36/58. Then they're going to look at the T206. The goal will be to displace the 100LL engines. Listening to a Cessna rep last week, they view diesel as the future, so expect it to end up on new 206s. That said, you will also need to trade yours in for it to be cost effective in my opinion. Engine STCs from dissimilar manufacturers never go cheap.