Big Rant. 100 Hours in and no solo. Need any advice.

Not EVERYONE is predisposed to be a pilot. Take a hint........maybe buy a boat.

I'm going to take a little bit of issue with this, sorry. Not everyone HAS to be predisposed to be a pilot. If you don't have an ingrained talent for it you can certainly still do it; it might take a little more time and you might have to work a little harder, but I think pretty much anyone who doesn't have a medical disqualification can do it if they put the work in. Maybe the difference is you solo in 30 hours instead of 18, and you pass your checkride at 70 hours instead of 50, but you can totally do it.

100 hours just to solo? That's completely on the instructor. If it's because of something you're not getting or not making progress on, it's still on the instructor to figure out what it is, figure out a way to teach it, and EXPLAIN to you clearly exactly why you're not moving forward and what specifically you need to do to remedy that.
 
I'm going to take a little bit of issue with this, sorry. Not everyone HAS to be predisposed to be a pilot. If you don't have an ingrained talent for it you can certainly still do it; it might take a little more time and you might have to work a little harder, but I think pretty much anyone who doesn't have a medical disqualification can do it if they put the work in. Maybe the difference is you solo in 30 hours instead of 18, and you pass your checkride at 70 hours instead of 50, but you can totally do it.

100 hours just to solo? That's completely on the instructor. If it's because of something you're not getting or not making progress on, it's still on the instructor to figure out what it is, figure out a way to teach it, and EXPLAIN to you clearly exactly why you're not moving forward and what specifically you need to do to remedy that.

Saying that someone isn't predisposed to be a pilot could be viewed as a nice way of saying you ain't got what it takes.

Kind of like someone who wants to sing. Some people have beautiful voices, some have nice voices that could be improved with training. Some couldn't even carry a tune in a bucket. No amount of training and wishing and hoping is going to help that last group.
 
I haven't read the complete thread, but OP if you're still struggling, please hang in there. I didn't solo until just recently with 70+hrs. I struggled with many of the same issues as you. For example, my CFI would point out WHAT I was doing wrong but not necessarily explaining the physical cause and effect. The way my analytical mind works, I needed to understand WHY these things were happening. (cause and effect) For example, when landing, I didn't understand how the left-turning-tendencies of the airplane happened both when you INCREASE and DECREASE power, which is why I kept hearing "more right-rudder" so often and struggled keeping centerline. Now, I anticipate it and apply RR pressure as soon as I'm making throttle adjustments. I also watched a LOT of YouTube videos on landings, maneuvers and techniques (daily, for hours, no more TV!).

Lastly, next time you fly (touch-n-go's) - identify something in each leg of the pattern that you want to improve. For instance, for me it was things like:

Turning Crosswind: making sure it was right at 500ft AGL
Turning Downwind: making sure I was at least 800ft AGL
At pattern altitude: trimming for level flight
Abeam landing spot: making sure my distance from the runway was optimal
Turning Base: making sure I aligned perpendicular with the runway, identifying correct reference points, before turning final
Turning final: making sure I'm aligned with the extended (imaginary) centerline, trimming etc.
Final approach: loosening my grip, wiping the sweat, jiggling my hands and wiggling my toes (reminds me to get ready for that rudder-aileron work), NOT being hyper-focused on thing etc.

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of times in your life when someone told you that you weren't cut out for something. Use that as motivation to show the world (more importantly, yourself) that you can do any gotdam thing you set your mind to. You got this my friend!!!
 
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Lastly, next time you fly (touch-n-go's) - identify something in each leg of the pattern that you want to improve. For instance, for me it was things like:

Turning Crosswind: making sure it was right at 500ft AGL
Turning Downwind: making sure I was at least 800ft AGL
At pattern altitude: trimming for level flight
Abeam landing spot: making sure my distance from the runway was optimal
Turning Base: making sure I aligned perpendicular with the runway, identifying correct reference points, before turning final
Turning final: making sure I'm aligned with the extended (imaginary) centerline, trimming etc.
Final approach: loosening my grip, wiping the sweat, jiggling my hands and wiggling my toes (reminds me to get ready for that rudder-aileron work), NOT being hyper-focused on thing etc.

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of times in your life when someone told you that you weren't cut out for something. Use that as motivation to show the world (more importantly, yourself) that you can do any gotdam thing you set your mind to. You got this my friend!!!
I honestly think that we should train pattern work with the altimeter covered up. It would force the student to analyze wind and the visual indicators of altitude and distance. Plus, if a forced landing is ever needed, you won't have any of those numerical altitude clues to go by.
 
I honestly think that we should train pattern work with the altimeter covered up. It would force the student to analyze wind and the visual indicators of altitude and distance. Plus, if a forced landing is ever needed, you won't have any of those numerical altitude clues to go by.
Post solo training as opposed to pre solo
 
Post solo training as opposed to pre solo
Why?

If a student learns to adjust altitude and position by sight (usually with plenty of runway to spare) then they aren't constrained by target altitudes, which are not typically valid in all conditions, i.e. strong headwind, crosswind, density altitude, etc.

Think of docking a boat in strong wind and current, but just adding a vertical dimension. It's all done visually without distance cues.

(Besides, why turn crosswind at 500 feet? It seems more prudent to at least get to the end of the departure runway before turning to the crosswind, and that altitude depends on runway length for that particular field.)
 
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Because beginners need structure. Confidence etc

We’ve got two people here at 70 hours with no solo. Why pile on more stuff?
 
I honestly think that we should train pattern work with the altimeter covered up. It would force the student to analyze wind and the visual indicators of altitude and distance. Plus, if a forced landing is ever needed, you won't have any of those numerical altitude clues to go by.
I def understand that. I'm a recovering "gauge chaser," but getting a better at keeping my eyes outside the cockpit.

I initially struggled maintaining pattern altitude which is why those were on my pattern "work on" list. There is helicopter training at the airport I train at and it was imperative I made sure to reach and maintain altitude.
 
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Because beginners need structure. Confidence etc

We’ve got two people here at 70 hours with no solo. Why pile on more stuff?
I'd argue it's less stuff, and least potentially, and maybe they would have soloed already with a different method and different training.

When you have target altitudes at target positions, what happens when those numbers are off from the routine? Now you have to resort to what you were better off doing in the first place - adjusting your pattern by sight.
 
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I'd argue it's less stuff, and least potentially, and maybe they would have soloed already with a different method and different training.

When you have target altitudes at target positions, what happens when those numbers are off from the routine? Now you have to resort to what you were better off doing in the first place - adjusting your pattern by sight.
The point is, the struggling student needs to see the same picture each time. What you are suggesting will have them flying every landing as if it were their first one.

I do agree, that post solo, mixing things up (turn final high, low, fast, slow) and learning how to correct them to a good landing is important.
 
I didn't need help mixing it up. I pretty much flew every single approach a little bit differently. And I agree, that method does make it tougher to learn to land. But on the other hand, my lack of ability at being consistent on approaches made me better at correcting for bad ones. Again, not on purpose, but I overhead a long time CFI state that students that always get the approach exactly right make them a bit nervous, because they don't know what they'll do if they are presented with a bad one by accident. I piped in and said "don't have that problem!", and sadly they agreed.

So joking aside, I do think there's value to that mix up. Not so much in learning how to salvage marginal approaches, though. The value is learning what NOT to try to salvage. Specifically, people that have the airspeed or approach angle/power way off, that try to salvage what should be a go around.
 
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Students should be allowed to practice landings at several airports within the practice/cross country flight area of the airplane. They will get used to how it should look when things are correct and verify that by a scan of the instruments. Some pilots place the runway view on downwind to a particular spot of a lift strut or wing to verify that they are close to the correct altitude and the proper distance from the runway.

Learning to land at only one field may give them a rote/mechanical ability and get them through solo but a student should be given variations from the beginning so that they learn how to look at a field and set themselves up for the approach.
 
Students should be allowed to practice landings at several airports within the practice/cross country flight area of the airplane. They will get used to how it should look when things are correct and verify that by a scan of the instruments. Some pilots place the runway view on downwind to a particular spot of a lift strut or wing to verify that they are close to the correct altitude and the proper distance from the runway.

Learning to land at only one field may give them a rote/mechanical ability and get them through solo but a student should be given variations from the beginning so that they learn how to look at a field and set themselves up for the approach.

This is correct, flying a pattern by landmarks is ok for the first few times, but knowing how to reference your location in the pattern by looking at the runway is hugely important when you fly to unfamiliar fields.
 
This is what I had meant, sorry I wasn't clear enough.


I get it, and if giving up is what it leads to I'll make that decision, but I feel there is a lot of other factors that I want to clear up and I'm actively trying to make that difference before getting to that point. This could just be me being hardheaded, but having two other CFI's tell me I'm ready as well as all three instructors telling me they're confident in my flying skills everywhere else, I figured it's better to keep pushing through than to give up and let the school keep my money without trying.


Ugh. Seriously.

Hard headed?
Giving up?

I think I’ve made the point before - I’m biased. Not being to solo in a single engine land in 10 hours most times

*points to questionable instruction*

Call it 20. My opinion.

You push the throttle and press on the proper foot, plane takes off.

You land.

You turn left, right, maintain altitude in turns, keep heading, get competent at communication, maps and weather.

That’s it.

I know I’m oversimplifying and some may flame, but I empathize with the OP. As a puppy pilot at a flying club, a crappy Yosemite Sam instructor in a pool of 10 blackballed me - and it sucked.

Once I flew with Foghorn Leghorn, I soloed within 2 hours of instruction time…35 years and 4000 hours ago. I have flown with dozens and hundreds of people since.

Find
Another
CFI.
 
back many many many many years ago when I soloed, my instructor said the only time one of her students took more than 8 hours to solo was when she got the student from another instructor. otoh - there was a different CFI at the flight school that would typically solo students at about 25 hours... because she would go far beyond the minimum tasks for solo, going over cross-country tasks and such.

edit: to the OP: it's not a race. It'll take as long as it takes. There are no extra points for soloing in 8 hours and no demerits for taking longer than <fill in a number>. In the end, if successful, you'll still be a pilot.
 
You pretty much hit the nail on the head with this one... at the most, relaxing is probably my biggest battle and the CFI I'm with can't provide me getting over it
I don’t know if this helps but, when I started lessons my instructor (a nice guy, great pilot, I like him) would inadvertently stress me out. Had a tendency to bark, and just his style stressed me, and early on I was doing some maneuver he had told me to do, and he was doing that I shut him out totally and realized I had a death grip on the yoke. I got ****ed off, and slowly relaxed my grip to just a couple of fingers on the yoke, and ignored him, and he suddenly says “yeah, now you got it”.

I had health problems not long after, unrelated, and had to pause my lessons. Hoping to get back to it in the near future, but I also realize I need a new CFI even though I like mine, and respect him. My first instructor briefed me well before each lesson, and after we flew and I knew what we were going to be doing, and that my CFI had gone through things thoroughly with me And checked that I understood. Unfortunately he moved on after a short time. My CFI after him didn't really do a briefing before flight or it was a hurried blur of words. We would go up and I had no idea what we would be working on. He has trained a lot of pilots well. It isn’t necessarily him, or me, it’s US. I need the briefing, he doesn’t really do them.

when I start again, I will fly with him just to get my feet wet again, but then I’m sure I’m going to have to have that discussion, that I know how I best learn, and I need the discussion and briefings.

Something else that hindered me was that I am the type that goes DEEP into anything I try. I take on too much, and also was unsure what was expected of me, so I’m thinking about aborted takeoffs, even early on asked my current CFI on the way to an airworks area, “if we had an engine out now what would I do?”, and many other things that I really didn’t get an answer (but I can be really all over the place…asking “how do you estimate distance from clouds?“ “how do I recognize the boundaries of the airworks?” Etc.) and he did correct me in a way to tell me that would come later. I always felt overwhelmed by what I assumed I was expected to know, that actually helped, because I realized I just had to trust the system.

I‘m planning on resuming my lessons, and I don’t have the same problems you are struggling with exactly, but there is overlap.

I don’t really understand what the problem with holding (at least fairly close) to the centerline is though. What do you think it is? There seems like a rate of rudder control that you can get ballpark right away and fine adjust after. It seems like an interesting point to start with.

I’m not a pilot yet, but I do disagree with the idea of giving up. If you really are motivated, maybe try to look at it objectively and solve the problems one by one. Focus on ONE, say holding the centerline. Repetition, adjust, get the feel. It seems like that would be “low hanging fruit” and mastering that would give you a win and you need a win. Ride on the good feeling of having that down, then work on more difficult things.

My stupid little story of me realizing I was gripping the yoke in a death grip actually helped me tons in both realizing I am the PIC, and that I need to monitor my own actions and correct them. Loosening my grip on the yoke was a positive thing, and helped me realize that. I also have to watch out for relying on the CFI, and I really hope we both overcome our hindrances.

Good luck to you. Keep trying. I think we both need new instructors, not because there is something wrong with our current ones (blame isn’t a useful thing anyway) but because it isn’t working for you. A NEW instructor is a new start. They will evaluate your skills and deficiencies and maybe have a way to make it all click. Good luck!
 
100 hours just to solo? That's completely on the instructor
Semi-necro-posting here. This is just.not.true. Maybe in some - possibly many - cases but by no means universal.

I built my gyro in Italy 5 years ago. A woman built one there with me as well, both of us instructed by the same (excellent, IMHO) instructor, who I have lunch with periodically. I currently have 250 hours on my gyro. She has OVER 600 HOURS and he still isn’t comfortable with her soloing. He has gotten other instructors involved as well.

Bob Noel’s comment above about singing is spot on. I’m not saying OP can’t ever learn to fly. I’m saying we should all be realistic about our abilities, which can be tough.
 
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My 2c - the biggest factors are the training environment and the CFI. Training on a short runway at a popular airport in a large metropolitan area is tough. You spend 50% of your time waiting for takeoff clearance, you're stressed about traffic, stressed about braking, grumpy ATC, big boy airspace and other factors that fundamentally have nothing to do with flying. Want to teach someone to drive? Well don't ask them to start their lessons in LA traffic for heavens' sake. They could very well give up and ride the bus instead.

The other factor is CFIs. In my experience the general trend is as the CFIs attain Yoda-level themselves, they become chill and don't react to every little flaw in your flying, and that is a huge confidence booster. Later, you will gain the confidence to fire CFIs, but that's hard to do starting out. Last time I did that was taking tailwheel instruction in a Citabria. I told him I wanted a long runway so I didn't have to stress out about braking, and that I was willing to pay for the time to fly to it. But no, he wanted the next lesson on the same 2300' runway, and on a day with gusting crosswinds. Said it would make me a better pilot. Told him it wasn't going to work out, no hard feelings. Compare to my high performance endorsement in a 206H with 300 lbs of sandbags in the back. The CFI asked me to do a simulated power off 180 and land full flaps. As I cleared the trees and approached the runway at a seemingly vertical angle, I recall a desperate moment where on my own initiatve I gave it a puff of power before I pulled into the flare. Later the CFI said, "that was the perfect thing to do, nice landing". So he was paying attention, but he gave me every last bit of margin to see if I could handle it myself. And he didn't get wound up that it was supposed to be an engine out maneuver. To him, I made the right decision in that situation, and that was good enough.

So my take: experienced and chill CFI, long wide wide runway (even better: a long grass strip) in a rural area, forgiving airplane, and you'd have soloed in 15-20 hours. I'm not a CFI but I think anything more than 20 hours points to something suboptimal in the training environment.
 
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I'm not a CFI but I think anything more than 20 hours points to something suboptimal in the training environment
Your opinion. Our syllabus calls for a lot of maneuvers before focusing on pattern work, so many, no - most - students do not solo before 20 hours. I flew with one today who has more than 40 hours but is not ready to solo. The "suboptimal" in the training is he only flys between June and September, and he is more than 80 years old.
 
It is weird your instructor seemingly asking you to learn forced landings before solo. Mine never did that. We only did PFL where he'd pull power in the circuit and I land it without power.

(d) Maneuvers and procedures for pre-solo flight training in a single-engine airplane. A student pilot who is receiving training for a single-engine airplane rating or privileges must receive and log flight training for the following maneuvers and procedures:

(1) Proper flight preparation procedures, including preflight planning and preparation, powerplant operation, and aircraft systems;

(2) Taxiing or surface operations, including runups;

(3) Takeoffs and landings, including normal and crosswind;

(4) Straight and level flight, and turns in both directions;

(5) Climbs and climbing turns;

(6) Airport traffic patterns, including entry and departure procedures;

(7) Collision avoidance, windshear avoidance, and wake turbulence avoidance;

(8) Descents, with and without turns, using high and low drag configurations;

(9) Flight at various airspeeds from cruise to slow flight;

(10) Stall entries from various flight attitudes and power combinations with recovery initiated at the first indication of a stall, and recovery from a full stall;

(11) Emergency procedures and equipment malfunctions;

(12) Ground reference maneuvers;

(13) Approaches to a landing area with simulated engine malfunctions;

(14) Slips to a landing; and

(15) Go-arounds.

Check out number 13. It is required by 61.87 that we do engine outs from altitude to a landing area. The initial solo endorsement is good for 90 days and does not require additional sign offs. So when we do sign it, we have to assume that you are going to do day VFR flights for the next 90 days, up to a 25 mile radius from the airport. Also, we sign another endorsement saying that we have gone over and the student has done all the maneuvers listed in 61.87 before solo.
 
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Newer CFI tend to be lower time. They are not sure of how far things can go and them still recover safely.

The older, higher hour CFIs tend to know that they can let the student go further before they have to intervene.

IMO, the further you can let the student go, the better the learning. And the less I say, once they get the idea, the better the learning.

As to how much to do pre-solo, there are two schools (within the regs of what you have to have covered). One is solo the student as soon as reasonable, once they can do the pattern and landings, and get back to the field of they get disoriented and fly off. The other is where they are good to go anywhere within 25 miles.

I tended to solo early, as I feel that is a great confidence booster. First solo is after a few dual landings to make sure. Second solo is the same, once or twice around the pattern with them, then the rest of the hour solo. Then back to work on area work and getting to and from the area, to let then solo to the practice area.
 
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