BFR clock reset?

[AdamZ]

I never received a BFR after I got my PP because my Flight School and CFII told me that getting my IR within two years reset the clock on the need for a BFR. I am now very close to getting my High/Perf Complex endorsement. Will the endoresement reset the BFR clock again?

I get an IPC every six months so I will probably get the BFR anyway but if the clock is reset I won't worry so much about the timing. Thanks.

 

[Missa]

As I understand it anything that requires you to take a flight examination resets the BFR clock but endorsments do not.

Missa

 

[jdwatson]

A checkride, Wings Program are other ways to accomplish a BFR. Some FBOs require an annual IPC or check-out with one of their Pilots/Instructors to have rental priviledges.

 

[Areeda]

I agree with Missa.

Relevant section of the FARs is 61.56

Here's part of it:

d. A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force, for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege need not accomplish the flight review required by this section.

One thing is that a BFR is not that different from your high performance/complex training. If you let her know that you need a BFR also it will probably be easy to do both.

Joe

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

I never received a BFR after I got my PP because my Flight School and CFII told me that getting my IR within two years reset the clock on the need for a BFR. I am now very close to getting my High/Perf Complex endorsement. Will the endoresement reset the BFR clock again?

I get an IPC every six months so I will probably get the BFR anyway but if the clock is reset I won't worry so much about the timing. Thanks.

It's not automatic but should more than qualify for a BFR as long as you let the CFI know your needs and the same goes for the IPC.

 

[Ghery]

Our club requires a flight check every year. Not much different than a BFR, so I just have the CFI run it like a BFR. Never more than a year into one before the next.

 

[poadeleted20]

It's not automatic but should more than qualify for a BFR as long as you let the CFI know your needs and the same goes for the IPC.

I think what Dave meant to say was that while it's pretty easy to combine HP/Complex training with a flight review, completion of just the HP/Complex training required by 14 CFR 61.31 is not sufficient for an instructor to sign off a flight review endorsement. The flight review requires additional ground training on non-HP/Complex subjects such as a review of the Part 91 general operating and flight rules and the flight training should include more than just what's needed for the HP/Complex endorsement (e.g.. navigation skills are not part of an HP/Complex endorsement but they are part of my flight review -- and after the Smoketown Two, I don't think any CFI will not require that). Same goes for an IPC -- you can't sign off a flight review without covering material above and beyond the IR PTS "PC" items both on the ground and in flight. From 14 CFR 61.56(a):

"...a flight review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training. The review must include:
(1) A review of the current general operating and flight rules of part 91 of this chapter; and
(2) A review of those maneuvers and procedures that, at the discretion of the person giving the review, are necessary for the pilot to demonstrate the safe exercise of the privileges of the pilot certificate."

 

[poadeleted20]

As I understand it anything that requires you to take a flight examination resets the BFR clock but endorsments do not.

Joe's quoted the reg, and generally speaking, any pilot certificate/rating practical test fills that bill. There's some question even at FAA HQ about whether a CFI practical test legally meets the standard in 14 CFR 61.56(d) (since a CFI test is not for a "pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege" even though it includes a "pilot proficiency test," i.e., demonstration of piloting skills at the commercial level), so they recommend (but do not require) that after a CFI practical test, the examiner fill out a flight review endorsement.

 

[poadeleted20]

Some FBOs require an annual IPC or check-out with one of their Pilots/Instructors to have rental priviledges.

Just keep in mind that an IPC endorsement by itself does not fill the flight review square, and the FBO rental checkout is not sufficient unless the instructor includes enough to meet 61.56(a) and signs a flight review endorsement in your log. It's relatively easy to include the additional material to meet that standard, but you have to make sure the instructor knows ahead of time that you want a flight review included.

 

[NC Pilot]

A checkride, Wings Program are other ways to accomplish a BFR. Some FBOs require an annual IPC or check-out with one of their Pilots/Instructors to have rental priviledges.

I find that the wings program usually provides a BFR on Steroids. Very through and complete review of items both on the ground and in the air. Very good program. I usually go to a wings weekend once a year. Sometimes two.
Disclaimer - you can only go the next step in the wings program once a year, but it is still a good review.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

I think what Dave meant to say was that while it's pretty easy to combine HP/Complex training with a flight review, completion of just the HP/Complex training required by 14 CFR 61.31 is not sufficient for an instructor to sign off a flight review endorsement. The flight review requires additional ground training on non-HP/Complex subjects such as a review of the Part 91 general operating and flight rules and the flight training should include more than just what's needed for the HP/Complex endorsement (e.g.. navigation skills are not part of an HP/Complex endorsement but they are part of my flight review -- and after the Smoketown Two, I don't think any CFI will not require that). Same goes for an IPC -- you can't sign off a flight review without covering material above and beyond the IR PTS "PC" items both on the ground and in flight. From 14 CFR 61.56(a):

"...a flight review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training. The review must include:
(1) A review of the current general operating and flight rules of part 91 of this chapter; and
(2) A review of those maneuvers and procedures that, at the discretion of the person giving the review, are necessary for the pilot to demonstrate the safe exercise of the privileges of the pilot certificate."

Correct.
For me, it pretty much goes without saying that a short review with the CFI as outlined above is gonna get done no matter what the formal name of the flight mission, where appropriate. Did just that this afternoon with an F105 driver that was checking out in our SkyHawk.

 

[Ed Guthrie]

It's not automatic but should more than qualify for a BFR as long as you let the CFI know your needs and the same goes for the IPC.

As a rule, you always run a pilot throught "...A review of the current general operating and flight rules of part 91 of this chapter" for a HP/complex endorsement?

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

As a rule, you always run a pilot throught "...A review of the current general operating and flight rules of part 91 of this chapter" for a HP/complex endorsement?

Review is a very nebulous term. A team approach will help bring out any weak areas and facilitate concentrating on them for the review which could vary in time depending on the competency of the pilot.

 

[AdamZ]

Well I pretty much have the answer, thank you folks. I will use my HP/Complex as PART of my BFR. We are including things such as naviagtion, FARs etc in the HP/Complex and I have several wings certificates from the semiars I attended and that with some extra work thrown in as per the FARs should be sufficent for the BFR. Then the IPC is next in the middle of March.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Krall CFII
It's not automatic but should more than qualify for a BFR as long as you let the CFI know your needs and the same goes for the IPC.

As a rule, you always run a pilot throught "...A review of the current general operating and flight rules of part 91 of this chapter" for a HP/complex endorsement?

Another obvious factor that bears major influence on the 'longer answer' to this BFR question is where the pilot is flying out of for that HP/Complex endorsement flight(s). Curcuits around the pattern and close to an untowered field could easily fall short whereas a checkout flight(s) from a very busy class D such as BFI that is underlying a class B and proceeding past a TFR(s) among low clouds to one of many untowered fields in close proximity and returning to the class D base are a whole different animal and is what virtually all of my instructional flights happen to entail out of BFI.

Properly conducted, such flights can patently review "the current general operating and flight rules of part 91 of this chapter" when initiated by the standard updates aquisition by the PIC of the FDC, TIBBS, WX and FSS briefings, to the extent of BFR requirements.

 

[SkykingC310]

Relevant section of the FARs is 61.56

Here's part of it:

d. A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force, for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege need not accomplish the flight review required by this section.

Joe

I've read each reply in this post, but still need some clarification. Firstly, is a CFI authorized to conduct and sign off a BFR? If so, which title is he/she classified under? Examiner or approved pilot check airman? Obviously not under U.S. Armed Force. Secondly, pilot certificate and rating are fairly cut and dry, but what is the definition of an operating privilege? It seems that receiving an endorsement allows an operating privilege.

I just love the FAR's. No, I really do. Many do not, but I enjoy interpreting the language and trying to understand what is being said. Quite often, it is difficult to know the meaning. Definitions usually help, but are not always found. As I went through A&P school, one of my classes was FAR's and that's it, for like 18 days, 5 hours a day. A dreaded course for most, but interesting to me. I learned so much and yet know so little still. It is a constant challenge to fulfill the law.

 

[Areeda]

Adam,

I only posted part of 61.56 which covers flight reviews. The subpart d is one of the exceptions. The instructors role is convered in subpart c:

(c) Except as provided in paragraphs (d), (e), and (g) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft unless, since the beginning of the 24th calendar month before the month in which that pilot acts as pilot in command, that person has—
(1) Accomplished a flight review given in an aircraft for which that pilot is rated by an authorized instructor and
(2) A logbook endorsed from an authorized instructor who gave the review certifying that the person has satisfactorily completed the review.

Note there are also exceptions in e & g.

Joe

 

[poadeleted20]

Firstly, is a CFI authorized to conduct and sign off a BFR?

Yes.

If so, which title is he/she classified under?

"Authorized instructor." A flight review consists of one hour each of ground and flight training, which by definition must be given by an "authorized instructor." See 14 CFR 61.56(a), 61.1(b)(6), and 61.1(b)(8). CFI's are authorized to give flight reviews by 61.193(g).

Examiner or approved pilot check airman?

That only applies when you are substituting a "pilot proficiency check" under paragraph (d) for the flight review described in paragraph (a).

Obviously not under U.S. Armed Force. Secondly, pilot certificate and rating are fairly cut and dry, but what is the definition of an operating privilege?

No specific definition is given in Parts 1, 61, or 91 of the FAR's.

It seems that receiving an endorsement allows an operating privilege.

Additional training endorsements are generally not given by anyone authorized to do the "pilot proficiency checks" which may be substituted for a flight review, i.e., "an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force." ATE's must be given by an "authorized instructor," i.e., a CFI or, only for a high altitude endorsement earned in a sim, a CGI.