Best way to create and use custom checklists (electronic vs paper)?

[flyingcheesehead]

Why this interests me, and the philosophy I'm getting to...

I used to be kind of a checklist hater. Then, a couple years after getting my commercial multi, I had a right-place-right-time situation and got to right-seat in a Hawker for a leg. One of the big impressions I got from that flight was that the Hawker checklists were really good - There were several of them to run before takeoff, but they were clear, concise, easy, and because they didn't have any extraneous junk on them, they were quick to complete and easy to read.

Afterwards, I went back to look, and found that there are more items to complete prior to takeoff on a Cessna 172 checklist than a Hawker 800 checklist. That should tell you something about how bad piston GA checklists are! Later, I flew TBMs for work and they were mostly good as well. But since that Hawker flight, I've always done my own checklists for my personal flying.

So since I'm re(over)thinking my checklists, I am trying to think about how I do them, and how simple and easy I should go. Obviously, anything that's a killer item needs to be there still, and anything that might cause damage to the airplane if it's missed.

I'm also combining things where appropriate. For example:
Master: Off
Alternator: Off
Avionics Master: Off

becomes simply "Masters: Three off". And really the only reason I kept it at all is to ensure the avionics master is off prior to start.

I'm also moving things around between checklists, and eliminating duplicates unless it's truly a killer item. Lots of stuff on the before-start checklist that should be on the preflight checklist, and no reason why it needs to be done (or done again) while myself and pax are sweating/freezing. That kind of thing encourages you to rush, and rushing is not conducive to safety anyway, so it becomes counterproductive.

If the checklist is so long you don't use it: Shorten it. Combine items that are similar. If it says "Throttle: Idle. Prop: High RPM. Mixture: Idle Cutoff." then maybe you should just change it to "Power levers: Set for start" and check all three of them at once. Or the infamous 172 preflight sequence of "Master: On. Fuel gauges: Checked. Master: Off." That should be one item, and if the gauges don't agree with the quantity you saw in the wing, maybe turn the master on for a sec there, Sparky.

If the only reason an item is on the checklist is because it's an obvious prerequisite for another item: Remove it. You shouldn't need to be told to turn the master on to start the plane.

If you forget to do something and it's not on the checklist, add it.

 

[trenton]

If you'd like a starting point, here's what I use for my 172N. It prints double-sided and folds neatly into thirds.

c172n checklist v5.docx

PRE-START Preflight inspection COMPLETE Tiedowns, chocks REMOVED Baggage area SECURE Pax briefing CONDUCTED Seats & seatbelts FASTENED & UPRIGHT Doors CLOSED & LOCKED ENGINE START Circuit breakers ALL IN Master OFF Avionics OFF Rotating beacon ON Carb...

docs.google.com

I do not laminate it because (1) it wouldn't fold (2) it's cheap to reprint when it gets worn.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I'm finding that there are several types of items that you might want to get rid of:

1) "Do list" or "How to fly" items. Get rid of 'em. You don't need a takeoff checklist with "Throttle: Full" on it.
2) "Look at me I fly a super duper complex single engine piston aircraft" items... Like checking each individual switch in an entire bank of switches when they're all supposed to be off. Combine them! Ensure you get everything you need to by changing "Off" to "all off" or "three off" or something like that.
3) Items that are reasonable, but are in the wrong place. The before start checklist is not the time or place to be checking every individual control. You're probably freezing/sweating and have impatient passengers by then. That stuff belongs on the interior preflight checklist... Just one example. Another is that my airplane has no "after start" checklist, leaving some fairly important things like checking oil pressure for Before Taxi. IMO, you should have an After Start checklist that checks all of the things that need checking immediately - Do I have oil pressure, have I leaned to avoid plug fouling, etc - and then a Before Taxi checklist that you can do after you've done all the other stuff like entering your flight plan, checking the ATIS, getting your clearance if applicable, etc. So, move these items around, provided you take a chance to think about why they are where they are.
4) Inconsequential items. Mags off on the before start checklist, for example - You're about to turn them on anyway. This is one to check before you touch the prop or turn the master on during preflight. Same for Flaps Up on Before Start - If for some reason they were down, the only thing that raising them now does is waste battery power as soon as you turn the master on. If anything, the check should be for the switch to match the actual position of the flaps in case you had kids crawling around in your plane messing with things. Deal with these as appropriate.
5)

So far, I have dropped the number of items I am supposed to complete before takeoff (including preflight) from 174 items to 73.

There are also a few types of things you might want to add:

1) Anything related to installed equipment that is in section 9/IX of a modern POH for optional equipment, and anything that was installed aftermarket that has an approved flight manual supplement (AFMS). When I created the checklist for the DA40, there were 8 AFMSs that I needed to combine into the main aircraft checklist.
2) Procedural items that can kill you. For example, takeoff briefing! It's no good to take off into IMC or at night and then realize you forgot to look at the obstacle DP.
3) This is an extension of 2) but I've found that many emergency checklists are shockingly lacking, and only talk about the airplane. This is the time when you're going to be MOST likely to miss something important because it doesn't happen much, generally only happens while training, and you're going to have some serious adrenaline going on. For example, there are single engine failure checklists that start with messing with mixture, mags, tanks, etc. and completely forget that the first items on that checklist MUST be to pitch and trim to establish Vg, and find a landing area and steer towards it.

And there's even a few legitimate checklist items in there that are fine as is. Of the 100 items (excluding the exterior preflight) before takeoff in my factory checklist, there are a whopping three that I did not modify in any way. (Face. Palm.)

Have I mentioned that piston GA checklists SUCK???

 

[Pinecone]

I would like to find a nice Word doc/template to make a QRH type emergency check list. I have a checklist for a similar plane, but the person supplied it as a PDF, so not easily edited.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I would like to find a nice Word doc/template to make a QRH type emergency check list. I have a checklist for a similar plane, but the person supplied it as a PDF, so not easily edited.

Are you looking to replicate the format in the PDF? Can you post it?

 

[Pinecone]

Are you looking to replicate the format in the PDF? Can you post it?

Something like this, But best would be one where emergencies are listed on the first page, one per line, and that points to a tab for that page.

Like the airline in the pic.

 

[midlifeflyer]

That’s much of the reason I still use paper too. The other is that I simply find it more efficient.

I'm resurrecting this >year old thread with my own earlier comment. It was wither that or start a new thread called "Old Pilot, New Tricks." I am mainly referring to digital checklists like the ones in EFBs and some panels, not PDF versions of paper checklists.

One of the reasons for not using eChecklists that was mentioned in the thread was customization. That actually was part of the underpinning of my efficiency comment. But in the past few months, I've been playing with the EFIS editor, which saves checklists in multiple formats; Foreflight, Garmin Pilot, and Dynon among others. So customization was no longer a good excuse to avoid giving it a trial.

Today was Foreflight checklist day. Initial impressions came down to one positive and one negative.

Positive. I'm still using it in the same way as my paper checklists. Most phases are flow and verify; some phases are brief and do. But however used, the very act of checking things off probably makes it somewhat less less likely to miss something.

Negative. It may be because I'm in a learning phase, but I see two efficiency issues. The main one is, I really can't imagine switching screens to an EFB checklist in a busy approach environment. It really felt like too much head down time (VFR) or time away from the instruments (IFR). Part of that might also be the EFB type size - still stuck with their format rather than my own.

I'm not ready to give up, so next time it will be Garmin Pilot day.

I'd be very interested to hear others' experiences either successfully or unsuccessfully moving to eChecklists.

 

[Hang 4]

I haven't moved to e-checklists yet, but it's in the plan. What I'm finding is I really need a good checklist for IFR approaches in a full Garmin panel. I've tended to use an approach plate as a pseudo checklist for frequencies, altitudes, headings, fixes, minimums and missed procedure. That is great but it some of the settings that might need to be checked before getting into the approach environment. Where is the altitude bug set, heading on approach course (unless getting vectors) etc. The Checkmate lists are sadly lacking there and full of stuff that is not that big of a deal in a fixed gear single.
In my Cherokee, the descent/landing checklist is three toggle switches, mixture and carb heat. All of them are in pretty much the same place and are a flow I do two or three times depending on IFR or visual approach. The electronics have a ton of stuff to think about, none of which are on my checklist.

Long way of saying, I'm overdue for building my own and it will be both on my iPad and Paper.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Negative. It may be because I'm in a learning phase, but I see two efficiency issues. The main one is, I really can't imagine switching screens to an EFB checklist in a busy approach environment. It really felt like too much head down time (VFR) or time away from the instruments (IFR). Part of that might also be the EFB type size - still stuck with their format rather than my own.

It'd definitely be nice to have an overlay accessible from anywhere in the app.

I'm really bummed that Goose Copilot seems to be dead. I'd really like a voice-activated FO.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I'm not ready to give up, so next time it will be Garmin Pilot day.

Similar issues in the second flight, plus one more. Because of the variety of airplanes I fly, my personal checklists have two distinct parts. One is the basic checklist. The second is sort of a mini flight manual, mostly dealing with equipment - different autopilots, totalizers, PFDs. The latter is not really conducive to the eChecklist format, although it does work as a PFD document. I guess I can separate the two, but I’m not sure how that makes things more efficient.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I'm really bummed that Goose Copilot seems to be dead. I'd really like a voice-activated FO.

I suspect there are three obstructions they ran into.

Biggest one is grumps like me who don’t see much reason to move from paper for this particular function. I fly with multiple pilots. So far, a total of three have used eChecklists. Two were Cirrus owners, where its use is part of the standard training regimen. The third was a young guy using ForeFlight’s checklists and doing a nice job of it (he’s actually the one who got me interested in experimenting). And those three were spread over the course of 7 years.

A second is the EFB adoption of checklist functions - you’d really need something special to offer. Mira/Goose does, but is it enough to justify a separate app?

The third, of course, is the “who needs checklists?” crowd.

 

[flyingron]

My most used Navion checklists are just done on paper and my wife (a school teacher at the time), just laminated them at work.

I put the emergency lists in the MVP50 just so I'd have a second copy.

 

[Clip4]

I suspect there are three obstructions they ran into.

Biggest one is grumps like me who don’t see much reason to move from paper for this particular function. I fly with multiple pilots. So far, a total of three have used eChecklists. Two were Cirrus owners, where its use is part of the standard training regimen. The third was a young guy using ForeFlight’s checklists and doing a nice job of it (he’s actually the one who got me interested in experimenting). And those three were spread over the course of 7 years.

A second is the EFB adoption of checklist functions - you’d really need something special to offer. Mira/Goose does, but is it enough to justify a separate app?

The third, of course, is the “who needs checklists?” crowd.

I guess add me to the old Grump crowd because I really don’t like the checklists in a Cirrus.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I guess add me to the old Grump crowd because I really don’t like the checklists in a Cirrus.

One of the three I mentioned was the instructor when I was receiving recurrent Cirrus training. Same as what I found with the EFB ones - ok through takeoff and initial climb, but a distraction once in the air when other MFD displays are more important. And when I mention two Cirrus pilots, that doesn't include the others I've flown with who don't use them.

 

[Clip4]

One of the three I mentioned was the instructor when I was receiving recurrent Cirrus training. Same as what I found with the EFB ones - ok through takeoff and initial climb, but a distraction once in the air when other MFD displays are more important. And when I mention two Cirrus pilots, that doesn't include the others I've flown with who don't use them.

OEM training includes the e checklist use, so the CSIPs are not telling anyone to use paper.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Biggest one is grumps like me who don’t see much reason to move from paper for this particular function. I fly with multiple pilots. So far, a total of three have used eChecklists. Two were Cirrus owners, where its use is part of the standard training regimen. The third was a young guy using ForeFlight’s checklists and doing a nice job of it (he’s actually the one who got me interested in experimenting). And those three were spread over the course of 7 years.

And the biggest reason grumps like you (us?) exist is that our instructors were grumps.

A good electronic checklist used well is a beauty to behold. But it’s going to take concerted effort by a lot of instructors to find a good app and efficient ways to use it before it’ll be really accepted by the masses.

Which, admittedly, is part of the reason for this thread.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Biggest one is grumps like me who don’t see much reason to move from paper for this particular function. I fly with multiple pilots. So far, a total of three have used eChecklists. Two were Cirrus owners, where its use is part of the standard training regimen. The third was a young guy using ForeFlight’s checklists and doing a nice job of it (he’s actually the one who got me interested in experimenting). And those three were spread over the course of 7 years.

There really isn't a reason to move from paper unless you can do something better than just display what's on the paper on a screen instead.

For example, ForeFlight can read the checklists to you so that you can continue to have your eyes on other things - Outside, panel, and of course the things you're checking off.

A second is the EFB adoption of checklist functions - you’d really need something special to offer. Mira/Goose does, but is it enough to justify a separate app?

It would have been, if it worked. "Hey Goose, after takeoff checklist!" And the ability to tell whether you responded with the correct status of the item. They did have "Check" and "Skip" as alternatives.

The third, of course, is the “who needs checklists?” crowd.

Nobody needs checklists, until they do. Alas, you don't know you need them until it's too late. I've also seen how well they can work in a multi-crew situation, and I'd love to be able to replicate that as closely as possible in my plane. For example "Hey Captain, would you like that climb checklist now?"

 

[midlifeflyer]

There really isn't a reason to move from paper unless you can do something better than just display what's on the paper on a screen instead.

I agree with you that checklists requiring the pilot to actively acknowledge the completion of items like what ForeFlight, Garmin Pilot, Mira/Goose, avionics, etc give you is the primary benefit of eChecklists. (I only use that term to refer to those.) The fact that you need to acknowledge completion alone makes it less likely to miss something.

BTW, you mention FF’S ability to read the checklist. Pilot doesn’t do that, but has some interesting features such as the ability to, say, automatically switch to the Map upon completion of the climb checklist.

But I don’t agree that there is no benefit to checklists which are “merely” electronic documents. Like all digitized documents, pdf checklist can be bookmarked, contain internal cross links, and can be formatted in ways that paper - and most eChecklists - can’t. I’ve been digitizing my “paper” checklists for more than 15 years, and a few years ago stopped writing my own emergency checklists in favor of extracting the POH ones and bookmarking them for quick retrieval and easy reference. I still prefer paper, but I have used the digitized ones.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

But I don’t agree that there is no benefit to checklists which are “merely” electronic documents. Like all digitized documents, pdf checklist can be bookmarked, contain internal cross links, and can be formatted in ways that paper - and most eChecklists - can’t. I’ve been digitizing my “paper” checklists for more than 15 years, and a few years ago stopped writing my own emergency checklists in favor of extracting the POH ones and bookmarking them for quick retrieval and easy reference. I still prefer paper, but I have used the digitized ones.

Ah, that is true... I have a copy of a certain jet's checklist that is fully bookmarked and linked and I can tap on a warning light and be taken instantly to the corresponding abnormal/emergency checklist so I can read that while I dig out the QRH and fumble through the falling-apart but legal pages. And it'd be nice to be able to have bookmarks/links to one checklist in potentially multiple places, so you don't have to remember whether you put the Engine Fire checklist under Engine or Fire...