Best place to buy a new desktop? No dell, HP **** either.

Gucci Pilot said:
I've switched to Apple stuff as well.
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Switched to a Macbook Pro in 2007 and never looked back. Just bought my second one in February 2014 after having the other one 7 years. I also have an iPad but I hardly use it any more. Went through the tablet phase but now over it. Back on the laptop.

I still like Android phones better though. Just like being able to customize my phone. Can't do that on the iPhone which I did have for a few years. Had to borrow a friend's Android phone when I sold my iPhone to get the new model iPhone coming out, and never went back to the iPhone.
 
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ktup-flyer said:
Mac... They last
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Macs last because they use quality hardware. And they charge a premium for it.

If you purchase quality equipment for PCs, they will last too. I purchase quality equipment from a local builder and I have had dozens of PCs last well over 10-12 years. I got rid of most of my old PCs because they were outdated, not because they died. I usually donated them to a local middle school.

If you shop for a PC based on cost, expect it to come with subsidizing bloatware and cheap construction. They won't last.
 
Gucci Pilot said:
I've switched to Apple stuff as well.
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Another vote for Apple. I was worried about making the switch to an iMac because I was only familiar with Windows. I switched because I was buying a new laptop every other year. I brought it home and it couldn't have been easier to make the switch. A lot of people don't realize you can still get Microsoft word/excel etc. for Macs. It's now been 5 years and has yet to disappoint. I also run Autocad and Adobe Photoshop on it. Still fast and haven't needed to take it to a "computer geek" to fix the performance yet.
 
Jimgrouch said:
Another vote for Apple. I was worried about making the switch to an iMac because I was only familiar with Windows. I switched because I was buying a new laptop every other year. I brought it home and it couldn't have been easier to make the switch. A lot of people don't realize you can still get Microsoft word/excel etc. for Macs. It's now been 5 years and has yet to disappoint. I also run Autocad and Adobe Photoshop on it. Still fast and haven't needed to take it to a "computer geek" to fix the performance yet.
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Not only that, if you do need Windows for something, set up a Bootcamp installation or a virtual machine like I did with my Macbook Pro. So I can boot up into Windows if I ever need to, or I can just start the VM while still in Mac OSX.
 
Unit74 said:
Can you run all the regular types of programs like Adobe, Office, etc? What's the advantage of these niche type OS? I know nothing...:dunno:
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Yes, 2 ways
Wine - for simpler programs
Virtualbox - run Windows or any other OS in its own virtual hardware system

However, although Linux is powerful it's not for the faint of heart, you have to be somewhat tech savvy.
 
CT4ME said:
'Just put together an Intel NUC. $368 for hardware. That includes 8GB RAM and 120GB solid state drive. 5 minutes of assembly. And another 45 minutes to install Windows. Of course, at least with Win7, that's followed by 3-5 hours of 250+ Windows updates!
5"x5"x1". Quiet and fast. Amazon link

Really, you should just by an off-the-shelf unit for less than $400. HP, Dell, ASUS, etc. You get Windows pre-installed and a warranty. If you put things together yourself, there's no support or warranty, and a lot of finger pointing.
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Unit74 said:
That NUC looks interesting.

Look is like Intel says they are built for Windows 10. Why would you go with Windows 7?
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I have a NUC from the middle of 2014 (almost said "last year" - oops). Started out with Windows 8.1 and upgraded to Windows 10 as soon as MS made the upgrade available. There's a SSD in there for the OS and other such stuff and a 1 TB hard drive for files and the like. A lot of capability in a SMALL package.

The only machine I have running Windows 7 is a laptop that came with it. It works fine and I'm not convinced that changing to Windows 10 would buy me anything. Everything else is running Windows 10. I HATE Windows 8 and 8.1. The UI was designed for tablets and it no good for a typical laptop or desktop machine. I was not happy when we moved to 8 at work. Oh well, that's not my problem anymore. I retired from Intel last June. :yes:
 
Those using the NUC, why invest today in any i3 processor platform? Seems like an i5 would be a bare minimum at this point, and an i7 family better.

My two late 2011 Mac minis weren't much more money used, and they both came with max installed RAM by their original owners, and i7 processors, leaving me with the relatively cheap SSD to upgrade them to. One got a 500 GB, the other got a 1TB. Both Samsung 850 EVO.

I don't think I have more than a $200 delta in final price in ether one of them over a brand new NUC box.

Granted I bought them at the right time, when they were considered to be two generations old, and nobody had really thought too hard about the new ones being glued shut or whatever silliness Apple switched to under Cook.

They've probably gone up in value, a first for any desktop machine I've ever owned.

Yup. Looks like about $600 from various sources...

(Edit: Meaning they went up...)

If one can be had with an SSD for that, it's a screaming little machine. I suspect way faster than the fifth gen i3 in the NUC, but I haven't tracked how the fifth gens have been doing.

They'll probably be running still in five more years, easily. With the SSD and max RAM they boot in about ten seconds, and it's nearly impossible to bog them down with anything CPU intensive.

Really nice machines. One could run Windows in boot camp and not bother with OSX if you're not an OSX fan.

Hooked to a couple of nice monitors, one at work and one at home, I barely touch my MacBook anymore. Which is kinda sad.
 
Jimgrouch said:
A lot of people don't realize you can still get Microsoft word/excel etc. for Macs.
Click to expand...

That's about the extent of computing that I need. Found out all the Office programs could be done on a Mac and I was sold.
 
Ok so I literally spent all day Sunday pouring over new computers. Here is what I have ended up with....


Waiting for imminent release of the Intel NUC 6i5SYH

Ordered:
Samsung Spinpoint M9T 1.5 TB SATA drive
Samsung Pro 950 256gb PCIe SSD
Kingston HyperX 16gb DDR4 2x8
Widows 7 pro 64 bit

Just the basics for browsing POA so this aughta do for now. The NUC release is supposed to be a week or so out, at least I hope so. It was suppose to be out in Dec but was pushed back.
 
CT4ME said:
That should be a great system, with plenty of storage and speed. The sweet spot, as far as value goes, looks to be the i5...
http://www.techspot.com/review/972-intel-core-i3-vs-i5-vs-i7/
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Pretty much unless you're a hard-core gamer, CAD user, or high-end video editor. Intel's onboard HD graphics are okay for watching videos and the like, but not so much for really demanding graphics like gaming or CAD.

If you want a high-end processor but plan on installing a separate GPU card for better graphics than the i5's integrated GPU can deliver, then you may as well go with the Xeon E3-1231. It's almost identical to the Core i7-4770 except that it lacks the GPU; so you'll be getting better processing power without wasting money on a GPU that you'll never use.

As for HP and Dell, they make everything from cheap crap to high-end. If you buy their high-end stuff, you get good machines. My HP Envy 17 laptop with the i5 is a fantastic machine. For the money (roughly $800.00), it was one of the best tech purchases I've ever made. It's a very solid machine.

So was the older HP laptop that it replaced, which is now running CentOS 7 and is being used primarily as a video server. That machine has been running 24/7 other than for software updates and a few shutdowns while traveling for the better part of seven years. It's been running 24/7 for more than a year in its current mission without a reboot for reasons other than software updates and the like.

I'm longing for more screen real estate, however, and I don't travel as much anymore, so I'm in the early planning stages of building a new desktop. I'll probably go with the Xeon E3 or the i7, or maybe dual Xeons. I'll want a mobo with an Intel chipset with at least 32 GB DDR4 RAM capacity, although I'll probably start with just 16 GB unless I decide to virtualize. My goal in this case would be longevity. I want to maximize the time until obsolescence.

Then again, I may just buy a Mac. I really haven't decided yet. I want to give MS a bit more time to see if they back down on some of the snooping in Win10. I now know how to disable most or all of it, but there's something to be said for corporate mindset, too. If they really want to go the way of Google and sell their customers to the highest bidder, I don't want to be part of their ecosystem.

If I do buy a Mac, it will be one of the highest-end model they make. Not that I really need that kind of power, but I'm learning that Macs are damned-near impossible to upgrade these days.

Rich
 
txflyer said:
If you want to be a rebel, go with Linux or Ubuntu operating system on a custom built PC and tell them all to kiss your ***.
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I did just that wih an old Dell and it brought it back to life. Any legacy Windows programs I have to keep run under a VM. But the native Ubuntu distros have gotten pretty darn good, and it's nice having cups support for wireless network printing.

Can't upgrade Ubuntu beyond 12.04 though...that's ok, does what I need.

Only beeatch...no iPod support, even under a VM.
 
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Chip Sylverne said:
I did just that wih an old Dell and it brought it back to life. Any legacy Windows programs I have to keep run under a VM. But the native Ubuntu distros have gotten pretty darn good, and it's nice having cups support for wireless network printing.

Can't upgrade Ubuntu beyond 12.04 though...that's ok, does what I need.

Only beeatch...no iPod support, even under a VM.
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I like the CUPS support as well. Works perfectly with my Brother MFC laser. Re: iPod: I am not an Apple user, but did you try Rythmbox or Banshee?
 
asechrest said:
I like the CUPS support as well. Works perfectly with my Brother MFC laser. Re: iPod: I am not an Apple user, but did you try Rythmbox or Banshee?
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Yeah, the hash file issue kills it for the iPod touch. You can get it to recognize the device, but can't write the files. Writes text and data just fine, but not music.

Tried Rythmbox and Banshee both for my click wheel ver 4. worked for a while but crashed a lot and finally the drive went belly up. Not worth dealing with any more.

Once you give Ubuntu dev permissions to RW on the nexus, RBox works great for managing music on Android.
 
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CT4ME said:
That should be a great system, with plenty of storage and speed. The sweet spot, as far as value goes, looks to be the i5...
http://www.techspot.com/review/972-intel-core-i3-vs-i5-vs-i7/
Click to expand...

The 6 gen i5 now has Iris as well. That comparo is the gen 5 i5. The delta between the gen 6 i5 and i7 don't justify the cost unless you absolutely must have maximum horsepower. If you can settle for 95%, the i5 is the way to go.
 
Unit74 said:
...
Buying a cheap box and a copy of Windows to "clean" all the bull**** out....wouldn't that do the same thing?
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No, because you're not going to get optimized hardware drivers and optimized installations. Signature PCs are a bit more expensive because they are worth it, for the same reason that Macintosh computers cost more than cheap PC boxes.
 
Unit74 said:
Reccomend me a place to buy some new gear?
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I got my PC built by CYBERPOWER PC. I not only liked their very generous customization options but loved their very sexy proprietary mini-towers (in case one wants one). I definitely wanted something much smaller in size than regular tower but slim and good looking with plenty of cooling and ability to handle standard power supply if it goes bad and has to be replaced. Their prices are good too. I spent quite a bit of time researching many places that build PCs and finally settled on this vendor.
 
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JimNtexas said:
No, because you're not going to get optimized hardware drivers and optimized installations. Signature PCs are a bit more expensive because they are worth it, for the same reason that Macintosh computers cost more than cheap PC boxes.
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Ummm no. Any "optimized drivers" can simply be downloaded from the hardware manufacturer's website after a clean load of Windows for any commonly purchased hardware.

But I'll bite. I've been loading Windows machines since Windows 3.11 for businesses, but perhaps you can describe with screenshots these special driver versions that aren't available anywhere other than on a "Signature" machine OS image.

This should be good.
 
denverpilot said:
Those using the NUC, why invest today in any i3 processor platform? Seems like an i5 would be a bare minimum at this point, and an i7 family better.
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Uh, because I got the basic NUC free? I had to add the drives, memory and WiFi/Bluetooth card (and OS). I was in Germany helping a customer solve an EMC problem (HDMI cables didn't have their shields terminated) and the sales engineer I was traveling with didn't want to take the NUC (unopened box) he had with him back home. I have a problem turning down free hardware. :D
 
Ghery said:
Uh, because I got the basic NUC free? I had to add the drives, memory and WiFi/Bluetooth card (and OS). I was in Germany helping a customer solve an EMC problem (HDMI cables didn't have their shields terminated) and the sales engineer I was traveling with didn't want to take the NUC (unopened box) he had with him back home. I have a problem turning down free hardware. :D
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Well, THAT I can see doing. :) I wouldn't BUY one though... not with an i3 processor in it, anyway...

Hey! I've done that trip! It wasn't HDMI, it was TTL level stuff... and the building itself had the multiple ground problems... another 12' ground rod straight through the floor of the data center/telecom room, cleared that all up. :)

http://cheezburger.com/6497990912
^^^ Gotta have a good ground! LOL
http://cheezburger.com/6497990912
 
denverpilot said:
I wouldn't BUY one though... not with an i3 processor in it, anyway...
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i3 is amazingly powerful, I can run G1000 PC trainer and watch youtubes at the same time and CPU load rarely exceeds 20%. I got the system 15 months ago. So far I never regretted that I purchased under powered PC but I knew up front what sort of applications I needed it for. I got a dedicated video card however.
 
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olasek said:
i3 is amazingly powerful, I can run G1000 PC trainer and watch youtubes at the same time and CPU load rarely exceeds 20%. I got the system 15 months ago. So far I never regretted that I purchased under powered PC but I knew up front what sort of applications I needed it for. I got a dedicated video card however.
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Again, if I weren't going to use the onboard GPU anyway, I think one of the Xeon E3's would be the best value. But I also tend to think in terms of future needs when building PCs for myself. I consider my design a failure if it doesn't do everything I want it to do without any additional upgrades for at least five years. Seven would be even better. So I do tend to overbuild.

denverpilot said:
Those using the NUC, why invest today in any i3 processor platform? Seems like an i5 would be a bare minimum at this point, and an i7 family better.

. . . .
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You know, I really am out of the loop. I didn't even know what a NUC was until I read your post.

I'm not sure if going that way is something I'd want to do. I really prefer machines that I can upgrade or fix myself, and I'm not pressed for space. But I must admit that the NUC5i7RYH has my attention. Cost-wise, it looks hard to beat for an i7 system unless you need higher-end graphics.

From my perspective, I'd put it in the same category as most Macs: Buy the most maxed-out one you can right from the start because upgrading it later will be a pain in the ass. And I agree that considering the small difference in cost between the i3, i5, and i7 versions, I'd choose the i7.

In fact, I'd probably buy two, keep one as a spare, and use Casper to update a clone of the HDD every night. Then if the NUC were to **** the bed, I'd just swap the RAM and the HDD into the spare, return the bad NUC under the warranty, and pick up where I left off.

Rich
 
Another vote for HP pavilion G series, I am using pavilion g6 desktop & laptop as well.
 
I don't think I could stomach an HP after dealing with my girlfriend's old HP desktop (ridiculous bloatware) and a vast array of totally ****ty HP printers.
 
RJM62 said:
I didn't even know what a NUC was until I read your post.
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Sam here. And unless I am missing something the unit doesn't come with a CD/DVD reader, there would be no way to load Garmin software for me. Seems like a dedicated multimedia machine and nothing else.

asechrest said:
a vast array of totally ****ty HP printers.
Click to expand...
I know something about it :yes:
Therefore somebody gifted me a really nice non-HP printer for Christmas.
 
Hopefully the OP has bought a machine by now. In the amount of time this has run on, he could have bought anything online and returned it if it was junk by now, and on to machine number two or three. Ha.
 
I have all the components and just ordered the 6i5SYH nuc last night.
 
olasek said:
Sam here. And unless I am missing something the unit doesn't come with a CD/DVD reader, there would be no way to load Garmin software for me. Seems like a dedicated multimedia machine and nothing else.
Click to expand...

That part wouldn't bother me. External CD / DVD drives using USB (or FireWire, or eSATA, if the NUC supports those interfaces) are easy to come by, or it could be mapped to the optical drive of another machine on the network. It's also pretty rare these days for things like printer drivers or application software to not be available any way other then optical media. Usually they can be downloaded from the publisher.

Even bootable operating system installation .ISOs can be made to run from flash drives. Most OS distributions also have downloadable images or applications that do the deed automatically these days. I also expect that retail boxed OS media will come on flash drives rather than (or in addition to) optical media before long. Maybe it already does. I haven't checked in a while.

The part that bothers me is that it can't be repaired or upgraded, especially the latter. Even the i7 model uses the Core i7-5557U, which is the bottom-of-the-line i7. I suppose Intel made that decision based on both cost and heat considerations. The i7-5557U benchmarks higher than any i5 and is probably more than adequate for majority of users, but I don't think I'd have a lot of fun transcoding a video on it.

Not that transcoding videos is something I do very often, but I do it often enough for it to be a consideration. There also are many people who do it a lot more often than I do but who don't know that that's what they're doing. I don't think they'd be happy with the experience unless they were migrating from something slower.

Rich
 
Re: video transcodes. I just tweaked my video software to have handbrake do hw video decodes and the file transcodes in about 20% of the time now. This is on a core i5 2500k but the Intel quick sync drivers to support this came out way after the chip was EOL'd. Not sure if this applies to your situation but I haven't gotten a free upgrade like that in years.
 
Started working on the new system yesterday. Since the NUC comes with only 3.0 USB, my keyboard and mouse did not work past the BIOS. Ended up finding a way to inject the 3.0 drivers into Windows 7. I had no idea what I was typing into the file, but that **** worked! Felt like a computer stud for a minute or three.

Found that my HD would boot fine without the injected drivers when loading, but the SSD drive did not even show up. So I had to load windows on to the HD, update the SSD drivers, then migrate the entire mess to the SSD drive. Not sure if there is an easier way, but that's what happened.

Anyway, I have been working through loading all the drivers and updates. My gawd what a slow process.

Finally had a chance to bench mark it. What do you guys think?
 
Here is the 1.5TB performance benchmark. So SSD v. HD is basically like a Vespa moped revving up on a Bugatti at a red light.:lol:
 
Unit74 said:
Started working on the new system yesterday. Since the NUC comes with only 3.0 USB, my keyboard and mouse did not work past the BIOS. Ended up finding a way to inject the 3.0 drivers into Windows 7. I had no idea what I was typing into the file, but that **** worked! Felt like a computer stud for a minute or three.
Click to expand...


Don't worry. Happens to pro IT guys and gals too. Haha. Sometimes knowing what to Google is the "magic". LOL.
 
denverpilot said:
Don't worry. Happens to pro IT guys and gals too. Haha. Sometimes knowing what to Google is the "magic". LOL.
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I know, right? My google-foo was strong this day. Found some computer geek site where they dont speak engrish too weel and found the code sequence something like ...c:win> "mount" "recurse", "dismount" etc.... whatever. It worked!:hairraise::goofy:

Im thinking about partitioning the SSD and using Ubunto as the boot OS and swapping over to Win7 when I need to. Thoughts?
 
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Unit74 said:
I know, right? My google-foo was strong this day. Found some computer geek site where they dont speak engrish too weel and found the code sequence something like ...c:win> "mount" "recurse", "dismount" etc.... whatever. It worked!:hairraise::goofy:

Im thinking about partitioning the SSD and using Ubunto as the boot OS and swapping over to Win7 when I need to. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Make a bootable flash drive of one of the Linux flavors and give it a try. If it intrigues you, go ahead and load it up. Just remember the live USB will be much slower than running it as your boot OS on the SSD.
 
Unit74 said:
Im thinking about partitioning the SSD and using Ubunto as the boot OS and swapping over to Win7 when I need to. Thoughts?
Click to expand...


I used to dual or triple boot machines quite a bit. With that advent of good free virtualization software, I can plan for having whatever OS is needed for direct hardware access/speed as the base loaded OS on that particular machine, and run the rest in VMs.

For completely free, VirtualBox ain't bad really. I've used Parallels for a long time on Mac, and I almost never have Win as the base hardware OS so I don't really use VMWare Player or whatever they call their freebie anymore.

All day every day at work, monitor 1 is the Mac desktop, monitor 2 is either a second monitor for the Mac, or is running a Win 8.1 Pro VM for the tools from certain (annoying) vendors that we have that don't do a proper Mac tool.

At home it's Mac again but all sorts of VMs for various things. Even VM'ed dads old XP machines when he passed using P2V software just in case we needed any of his old data off of them.

Have an ancient Win7 laptop extra at home for some equally ancient Win software for programming radios, and that's about it. Linux on the desktop usually turns into a PITA eventually, so I save Linux for all of the servers and command line.

And those are hosted in "the cloud" these days. No point in owning or maintaining hardware or a proper net connection to feed them at today's hosted VM price points.

Example: Played with OwnCloud for a bit. Just fired it up in a VM at Digital Ocean and decided I didn't need/want it, destroyed VM and went about my day. No hardware to mess with, and a tiny bill for the VM. I think $4 for the whole time I ran it. AWS would have been even better.

The other fun thing to do lately is see what I can make a Raspberry Pi 2 do. The silly thing is faster than my first Linux server was years ago. A little external USB storage and it's quite a little server for $35. Haha.

This stuff is screaming toward the commodity price point where there is almost no sense at all in building servers. Just figure out a backup and recovery plan to a different "cloud" location and the care and feeding if hardware has become "someone else's problem".
 
Reviving this to see how the NUC worked out for he op. Getting squeezed into a new system due to the JDM update software requiring something later than xp, and my processor doesn't support nx, so I'm outta options.

The NUC i3 w/8gb and 250gb ssd looks like a good value. I still need a dual boot with Linux so I can run legacy XP programs under VBox.
 
All is good for me. Since then, I have also integrated an IP camera system that backs up to the Nuc from the 2TB NVR and control it from the desktop whilst the NVR is pigeon holed away. No problems streaming 8 cams at 30 FPS through and Asus router.....gobbles it all up!
 
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