Best LSA folding wing under $30k

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docmirror

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Cowboy - yeehah!
No offense to the good folk at Zenith but I just don't want to go that slow.

Anyone have experience with folding wing planes? As in, have owned or flown one? Thinking of the Kitfox, but they are pretty slow too. Wish I could spend more but my HARD budget is $35k ask, $30k buy.

Let's try not to get me spending $190k for an Icon.
 
Europa XS cruises at 135kts. Wings don't fold, but were designed to be easily removable.
 
How does an LSA legally cruise at 135?
 
2-seat or single seat? I'm trying to convince myself to build a Onex for a work commuter
 
I had a lot of hours in the Apollo Fox at Boerne. Nice aircraft. The Apollo Fox, Avid, Kitfox, Aerotrek are all basically the same kind of bird, with many variations and levels of quality. All kinds or prices used, too, and production or experimental available, too.
 
I fly a Remos for about half of my flying these days and love it.

Unfortunately, it's one of the most expensive LSAs out there. You'd need a partner or two at 35k.
 
JHW said:
2-seat or single seat? I'm trying to convince myself to build a Onex for a work commuter
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2 seat please. I really wish the Sonex had a wing fold, or slide off feature.
 
Direct C51 said:
The Sonex is about as close as you will get for a faster LSA under $30k. Wings don't fold but the factory says they remove or install in 10-15 minutes. Owners say it takes about double that time. Still not all that long.

http://www.sonexaircraft.com/documents/instruction_sheets/wing_install.pdf
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That might be the way to go. I recall taking the wings off the Vari-eze wasn't too hard with two people. With one person was a real hassle. If I had a trailer for the whole thing, I'd just work up a wheel-wing jig to provide support when the wing was going on and off.
 
Why is a folding wing a requirement? Transporting an airplane back and forth to the airport every time you want to go fly isn't very practical. It sounds like a good idea until you actually go to do it. You will spend more time on average loading, unloading, and rigging the plane than you will flying it.

As for the sonex, yes the wings can be pulled of but it takes approximately a half hour to pull them and an hour to put them back on. The hardest part is getting the ailerons and flaps disconnected and re-connected. Your interior upholstery needs to come out, the seat pan pulled, and then you have to try and squeeze your hands into a tiny hole with a set or wrenches to get to the bolts for the ailerons and flaps. Once you do get the wings off they are too big and too heavy for one person to manhandle around. Being able to remove them to take home once a year to do the condition inspection is feasible, doing it every time you go flying isn't going to work.

Keith
Sonex #554
 
kmacht said:
Why is a folding wing a requirement? Transporting an airplane back and forth to the airport every time you want to go fly isn't very practical. It sounds like a good idea until you actually go to do it. You will spend more time on average loading, unloading, and rigging the plane than you will flying it.

As for the sonex, yes the wings can be pulled of but it takes approximately a half hour to pull them and an hour to put them back on. The hardest part is getting the ailerons and flaps disconnected and re-connected. Your interior upholstery needs to come out, the seat pan pulled, and then you have to try and squeeze your hands into a tiny hole with a set or wrenches to get to the bolts for the ailerons and flaps. Once you do get the wings off they are too big and too heavy for one person to manhandle around. Being able to remove them to take home once a year to do the condition inspection is feasible, doing it every time you go flying isn't going to work.

Keith
Sonex #554
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Well, since you're a builder, I'll answer your 'why' philosophical question.

Because I want to. It will be my money, and my time, doing what I want, and I want to fold/remove wings. It really is that simple. You can now call me stupid, or cheap, or anything you want because I want what I want with my money/time. Like I said, I've owned a Vari-eze and taken the wings off that before. I could handle one wing of the Vari, but the Sonex sounds like it's too awkward. If I can't design some kind of wheel jig, I guess that lets the Sonex out, and I'll move on to something else.

Pretty sure I could come up with a fairly simple tripod wheel jig that secures the wing outer section while I do the wing root dance. Not easy, or not cheap, but I've designed stuff like that before, and I can again.

Right now, leaning toward the Kitfox IV with a Rotax 912 as being simple, strong, and folding but wondering about making speed improvements to get the cruise above 90MPH.
 
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Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Compare the Avid Mk-IV STOL and Speedwing performance http://www.avidflyeraircraft.com/avid_aircraft_spec_sheet.doc - that will give you an idea about what is possible.
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I know the Avid is the pre-Kitfox, and that they are both Denny designs, but not sure what kind of support is left for the Avid. Not that I really need much support, but there's a bit of peace of mind that Kitfox is still in business.

Also, not sure I trust the numbers in any spec sheet from exp builders. I can't imagine the Avid MK_IV speedwing is much different than the Kitfox IV with the same mods/engine/prop.

Having said that, it seems Kitfox is not supporting the Classic IV much either.
 
docmirror said:
Pretty sure I could come up with a fairly simple tripod wheel jig that secures the wing outer section while I do the wing root dance. Not easy, or not cheap, but I've designed stuff like that before, and I can again.
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Look into one man rigs for sailplanes for ideas.
 
docmirror said:
I know the Avid is the pre-Kitfox, and that they are both Denny designs, but not sure what kind of support is left for the Avid. Not that I really need much support, but there's a bit of peace of mind that Kitfox is still in business.

Also, not sure I trust the numbers in any spec sheet from exp builders. I can't imagine the Avid MK_IV speedwing is much different than the Kitfox IV with the same mods/engine/prop.

Having said that, it seems Kitfox is not supporting the Classic IV much either.
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The Avid Flyer is a Dean Wilson design that Denny copied (Denny worked for Wilson at one point) and later modified. Support for the Avid would come for individuals still working or selling bits since there is no factory - but many parts for the early Kitfox fit the Avid since it was pretty much a direct copy.

And yes, number are written by the marketing department, but a comparison of wing area / span / etc. vs claimed speed could give you some idea what it would take to get significant speed changes.
 
RV12 wings come right off, but it takes 2 people
 
Since when do wings fold on S-6ES? And it's not any faster than Zenith.

Edit: RANS website says both wings and tail fold, which was a news for me. Never seen a Coyote II with wings folded.
 
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zaitcev said:
Since when do wings fold on S-6ES? And it's not any faster than Zenith.

Edit: RANS website says both wings and tail fold, which was a news for me. Never seen a Coyote II with wings folded.
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Cruise is 110mph. CH701 is 98mph and vNE is 110
 
kmacht said:
Why is a folding wing a requirement? Transporting an airplane back and forth to the airport every time you want to go fly isn't very practical. It sounds like a good idea until you actually go to do it. You will spend more time on average loading, unloading, and rigging the plane than you will flying it....

Keith
Sonex #554
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When I flew out of KFOT some years ago there was a guy who had a nice Kitfox seen around the airport frequently. He folded the wings and hooked a tailwheel adapter to the trailer hitch on his pickup, then towed it home on its own wheels. Guess he lived nearby - and that you can get away with stuff like that out in the sticks. That worked for him - but I agree that transporting generally isn't practical. Even moving a plane out of and back into a community hangar is a PITA if you have to move several other planes to do so (BTDT). On the other hand, if the wings fold I'd think you'd have a better chance of finding covered storage on many airports (hangars are hard to come by in many places).

Dave
 
Exactly. It's not for taking the plane to your house, it's for sharing a t-hangar with another plane
 
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