Best iPad App(s)?

godfreypilot

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
12
Display Name

Display name:
godfreypilot
Hey there,

I finally stopped procrastinating and bought myself a shiny new iPad 3. I'm pretty impressed with it, but I wanted to get some feedback from others on which apps would be the most useful in the cockpit, especially if I'm going to pay for it!

I'm a private pilot with an instrument rating, so I'd like a complete set of electronic charts and approach plates for sure, as well as the abilities of an aviation GPS (such as flying a flight plan, using a direct-to feature, getting groundpeed and cross-track, etc).

From my research, it looks like Foreflight HD and Garmin Pilot both seem to have what I'm looking for. I'd love to hear any input from people who fly with these apps. The Garmin app costs $25 more per year, so if anyone can give me a reason why it's better than Foreflight I would love to hear it. Also, if anyone out there has an app other than these two that you enjoy, I'd really love to hear about it!

Thanks for all the input,

Ryan
 
I've used both garmin and foreflight.. and its a toss up. I might go with garmin after my fore flight subscription runs out.

I really like how Garmin organizes your approach plates into "binders" for your departure and destination.

Foreflight has the "stratus" ADS-B receiver with weather. As far as I know, you can't get sattelite weather with the garmin app.

Both offer free trials IIRC so sign up and use em
 
The big three are Foreflight, Garmin Pilot, and Hilton Wing X (Jepp also has their own app but I have yet to read anything super positive about it). I believe all three have 30 day free trials. They each do their own thing differently and have their own followings. It comes down to the interface and features you like best. I'd download all three and try them out.

Personally, I went with Garmin Pilot. It has what I need, I like the display features and user interface.

Also, get super stickman golf. Terribly addicting. :D
 
Last edited:
Take some time and try out the free trial periods. I know WingX gives you a free trial period, and I believe ForeFlight does as well. Don't know about Garmin.

I personally prefer Foreflight because I like the interface and it has the features I want. I really only use it in flight as a moving map on the vfr sectional, and have yet to use it to display approach plates in the air. On the ground I use it all the time to look up plates, charts, weather, etc. It's become my primary flight planning tool, and I can file directly through DUATS and go fly.
 
Not mentioned yet: I really like Jesse's WnB Pro ( http://www.wnbpro.com/ ). It doesn't try to be too fancy, works without issue, displays on a nice envelope graph, easy to define stations and limits for any aircraft, and it's an excellent price. (Thanks Jesse).

And of course I use Foreflight.
 
Angry Birds Space, Temple Run and Netflix are the absolute epitome of the apps that the iPad was designed to support. These are why I haven't just thrown it away. Netflix with a Clear.com connection gives me the data entertainment & communications package I desire with the native iPod base software filling in music and stored video. Of course there is also the linking you forever to paying a royalty on everything to Apple. I think that by considering navigation applications as a primary consideration in the purchase of an iPad you are buying the machine under false pretense. There is no dedicated data storage to these applications and in a glitch or a reset you may need to re download files. If you don't have a good internet connection you're screwed, you need a pair of Golden Arches and do turns aound a point at 50' or land and taxi up for lunch.
 
There is no dedicated data storage to these applications and in a glitch or a reset you may need to re download files.

Incorrect. The API for "must have" data storage was introduced in a recent version of iOS. This was why there was a one-time re-download "event" for Foreflight data. They were moving from the "might get deleted if it's needed" storage API to the "OS will never touch this data" API.
 
Incorrect. The API for "must have" data storage was introduced in a recent version of iOS. This was why there was a one-time re-download "event" for Foreflight data. They were moving from the "might get deleted if it's needed" storage API to the "OS will never touch this data" API.

I call, "No, you just haven't been f-d by data dump recently, I have, multiple times in the last week I was required to redownload the databases all gone gray on WingX. Please don't try to tell me what I'm experiencing is not possible... reminds me of an old lyric; "Now when I talk to God he said you understand, you stick by me I'll be you're guiding hand; don't ask me what I think of you, you might not get the answer that you wanted to."
 
Incorrect. The API for "must have" data storage was introduced in a recent version of iOS. This was why there was a one-time re-download "event" for Foreflight data. They were moving from the "might get deleted if it's needed" storage API to the "OS will never touch this data" API.

Specifically it was only a problem between iOS 5.0 (October 2011) and iOS 5.0.1 (November 2011). If you didn't upgrade your iPhone/iPad in that window, it wasn't a problem.

I can't account for Henning's profanity ridden experiences with WingX, but I can tell you the window where this was ever an issue for Foreflight was small (less than 60 days). Foreflight was also quite diligent in letting people know that it was going to happen so you could either NOT UPGRADE to iOS5.0 or use some of their workarounds to avoid losing charts before flight.
 
Last edited:
So what's the general wisdom of the iOS gurus? How long to wait between update release and download should one wait for the mass casualty events to be avoided? What is accepted industry standard?
 
So what's the general wisdom of the iOS gurus? How long to wait between update release and download should one wait for the mass casualty events to be avoided? What is accepted industry standard?

Don't be the first on your block to jump into anything. Ages ago I learned that the words "Beta" and "Microsoft" together generally meant "disaster."
The issue with iOS5 was known and if you are concerned about a particular application like WingX or Foreflight, your best bet would be to check with the application provider as to whether they've tested with the new version. Foreflight certainly got the word out on this before I got around to thinking about upgrading my devices.
 
I call, "No, you just haven't been f-d by data dump recently, I have, multiple times in the last week I was required to redownload the databases all gone gray on WingX. Please don't try to tell me what I'm experiencing is not possible... reminds me of an old lyric; "Now when I talk to God he said you understand, you stick by me I'll be you're guiding hand; don't ask me what I think of you, you might not get the answer that you wanted to."

Sounds like WingX F'ed up royally and isn't using the right API.

I can only speak for Foreflight and that from their excellent blog. WingX seems a bit more amateurish to me, code quality-wise. Also less forthcoming about what they're doing design-wise. Maybe some neat features but buggier, less adherence to the Apple User Interface Guidelines, etc.

And apparently not using the right storage API. Boo. Hiss.

Now from the other thread I believe you restored from a backup last week? If that's the case, yes... everything in storage is blown away during a restore... Which is exactly as it should be...
 
I thought Oz the great and terrible, errr the iTunes store was supposed to analyze and authorize everything to spec to prevent this?
 
I really like how Garmin organizes your approach plates into "binders" for your departure and destination.

Either you're confusing the two apps or you're missing out, because ForeFlight has binders...

There is no dedicated data storage to these applications and in a glitch or a reset you may need to re download files.

Incorrect. The API for "must have" data storage was introduced in a recent version of iOS. This was why there was a one-time re-download "event" for Foreflight data. They were moving from the "might get deleted if it's needed" storage API to the "OS will never touch this data" API.

Actually, there *is* dedicated data storage, and the "must have" storage was not a recent development - It was around since the App Store opened up and third party apps were first created for the iPhone. Apple did "break" the storage system in iOS 5.0 due to some somewhat shortsighted thinking and allowed the OS to delete files (actually, it backed them up on "the cloud" but that didn't help much in an air), and upon the objection of ForeFlight and others whose applications didn't work properly with that, they started on a fix, introduced with iOS 5.0.1, that allowed app developers to designate whether data must be kept on-device or if it could be sent away to the cloud.

ForeFlight really kept on top of things, warning people about it on their blog before the release version of iOS 5.0 came out and offering steps to avoid problems for those who decided to upgrade anyway. They're good that way...
 
For me, the biggest must-have is ForeFlight. Some people prefer WingX. The Garmin app is relatively new, and I'm not sure I trust them to do things right and continue doing things right.

Other aviation apps: WnB Pro and E6B Pro, both written by our very own Jesse A. I also keep PDF flight manuals, checklists, etc. in GoodReader (though iBooks will work fine too). If you want to have some flight-related fun, try X-Plane or Air Wings.

Non-aviation: Flipboard is great if you have a Twitter or Facebook account. That's the first thing that comes to mind without actually looking at my iPad, anyway. ;) ABC Player lets you watch any ABC TV shows on-demand. NPR's app is quite nice, too. If you're into sports, ESPN ScoreCenter XL.

Really, there are so many apps available that if you think sometime, "I wish my iPad could do xxxxx," there's probably an app (or several competing apps) for that. Have fun!
 
Either you're confusing the two apps or you're missing out, because ForeFlight has binders...

ForeFlight does not have binders automatically generated based on departure and destination airports in a flight plan. Garmin Pilot does. Pilot also does several other navigation-related things much better than ForeFlight, including navigating from specific entry/exit points on airways (correctly), labeling navaids and intersections on route lines, easier entry/removal of waypoints and procedures on active flight plans, creation of waypoints from intersecting radials, automatically switches to airport Taxi diagram on landing (with SafeTaxi subscription), a navigation data bar at the TOP of the display (where it belongs) with more data fields than Foreflight, etc. Garmin is highly competent with navigation, and it shows.

However, for digital charts information, Pilot is surprisingly poor. There is no integrated AF/D as exists in ForeFlight. Non-standard procedure notes are hit-and-miss in Pilot. Multiple frequencies at larger airports are not labeled in Pilot. You can't overlay multiple data sources on the map at the same time, INCLUDING TFRs. When TFRs are displayed on the map, they're often difficult to distinguish from other airspace. Stitching of VFR sectionals, for example, is not as cleanly done as in ForeFlight, and the zoom level is not as large. Pilot appears to source at least some of its airport data from the AOPA Airport Directory which, as far as I know, is not a sanctioned source of information from the FAA's perspective; Pilot also doesn't identify what data comes from AOPA and what data comes from the FAA.

I suspect that Garmin is committed to the app market, but it's hard to tell Pilot will be a basic navigation app, or a full-fledged competitor to Garmin's higher-end hand held units.

For what it's worth, I'd rather have a single-source collection of accurate data paired with weaker navigation than the other way around. That makes ForeFlight a much better value, and it's $25-$30/year less expensive.



JKG
 
Actually, there *is* dedicated data storage, and the "must have" storage was not a recent development - It was around since the App Store opened up and third party apps were first created for the iPhone. Apple did "break" the storage system in iOS 5.0 due to some somewhat shortsighted thinking and allowed the OS to delete files (actually, it backed them up on "the cloud" but that didn't help much in an air), and upon the objection of ForeFlight and others whose applications didn't work properly with that, they started on a fix, introduced with iOS 5.0.1, that allowed app developers to designate whether data must be kept on-device or if it could be sent away to the cloud.

ForeFlight really kept on top of things, warning people about it on their blog before the release version of iOS 5.0 came out and offering steps to avoid problems for those who decided to upgrade anyway. They're good that way...

Yes, I should have said "re-introduced the API" after Apple utterly broke the storage model everyone was utilizing. Or "introduced a way to lock data into the device after switching the filesystem to an unlocked anything-can-be-deleted methodology after four major releases with the opposite behavior". Heh. Better? ;)

Apple's iOS 5 designers seriously screwed the pooch on that one. But they fixed it. You can't say their intent for iOS 5 could sanely ever be called "must have" storage. They made the colossal and never-ending blunder every software dev eventually makes once... assuming the network is "always there" and "always works".

Over and over and over I see this mistake by new coders. Surprising to see senior coders at a place as big as Apple get bit by it. Really really dumb. Insanely dumb actually.

Networks are never to be trusted. Applications must recover and operate without network access unless they can't by their very nature. Code must handle outages. Etc.
 
ForeFlight does not have binders automatically generated based on departure and destination airports in a flight plan. Garmin Pilot does. Pilot also does several other navigation-related things much better than ForeFlight, including navigating from specific entry/exit points on airways (correctly), labeling navaids and intersections on route lines, easier entry/removal of waypoints and procedures on active flight plans, creation of waypoints from intersecting radials, automatically switches to airport Taxi diagram on landing (with SafeTaxi subscription), a navigation data bar at the TOP of the display (where it belongs) with more data fields than Foreflight, etc. Garmin is highly competent with navigation, and it shows.

Binders: meh. No biggie.

Entry/Exit on Airway: Foreflight does this. Can you give an example of where it doesn't? I easily filed to enter V-8 at an intersection and it squawked at me that the airway needed an exit. What's broken about it? Just add the airway name to your route.

Labeling navaids/intersections on route lines: ??? Zoom in, it's all there. What specifically do you mean? When I added V8, all defining waypoints along the airway were added to the flight plan with estimates for ETE for each, etc. Seems like this works fine. What's different?

Easier entry/removal of waypoints: Tap on screen, pick waypoint. Or rubber banding. Both available. What is the part you like in Pilot better?

Waypoints from intersecting radials: Foreflight will do this I believe. The syntax is in the manual somewhere. Easy to just rubber band to it too unless you're making up RNAV stuff on the fly.

Taxi diagram: meh. Could suck if the algorithm decides to switch when you don't want it to. I don't like screens changing without me telling them to. Kinda falls into the same thing as their transponders that put themselves in Standby on the ground now that the opposite guidance is in the AIM. Gadget that's not needed.

Nav data bar at top: FF has the flight plan at the top and the real-time dashboard at the bottom. This is a don't-care for me as long as I know where it's at. There's no need for swapping it IMHO. But I bet that could be added pretty easily.

Just thoughts.
 
Binders: meh. No biggie.

Except that it is, because it reduces workload. The failings of ForeFlight mainly center around workload that SHOULD be automated, but isn't. This is especially significant during IFR operations.


Entry/Exit on Airway: Foreflight does this. Can you give an example of where it doesn't? I easily filed to enter V-8 at an intersection and it squawked at me that the airway needed an exit. What's broken about it? Just add the airway name to your route.

An example? How about ForeFlight's very own example, which does plot the route, but the nav log and the subsequent calculations are screwed up. It's apparently a known bug. KLUK CALIF V128 YRK KCRW

Another apparent navigation anomaly between ForeFlight and other flight planning tools and GPS units involves the exclusion of SOGBE intersection in the following flight plan: KPIT MGW ESL ESL.ROYIL2 KHEF

Garmin Pilot produces behavior identical to dedicated GPS units, and ForeFlight is often just a little off.


Labeling navaids/intersections on route lines: ??? Zoom in, it's all there. What specifically do you mean? When I added V8, all defining waypoints along the airway were added to the flight plan with estimates for ETE for each, etc. Seems like this works fine. What's different?

Garmin Pilot, like most GPS units, specifically labels all airports and waypoints on the map screen, making them easy to see on any map selected at any zoom level during navigation. With ForeFlight, there are no labels of waypoints unless you tap on the specific waypoint. For me, the nav log isn't all that important for navigation; I primarily care about data for my current route segment, and ETE/ETA/Fuel to the destination.

Garmin Pilot also has a button on the map screen which zooms to route. With ForeFlight, if I want to see the entire route, I have to pinch-zoom and then scroll. Again, when I'm flying the airplane, I'm looking for automation from my electronic tools, not extra head-down time.


Easier entry/removal of waypoints: Tap on screen, pick waypoint. Or rubber banding. Both available. What is the part you like in Pilot better?

Garmin Pilot has an "Active Flight Plan" screen with waypoints arranged in a list in LARGE text. You can swipe left to get a "Delete" button to remove one, you can tap any waypoint to change/remove/insert--it will prompt you to insert before or after, or it will auto-populate a SID or STAR if you so choose. A heck of a lot better than trying to tap ForeFlight's small text box in just the right place while bouncing around in the air, and then when repeatedly tapping when you misplace the cursor. For SID/STAR entry, it's a heck of a lot better than having to leave the map screen, look for the proper STAR, for example, then remember what it is while going through the entry exercise on the main map screen. Again, automation is gold when you're in the air and flying the airplane.


Waypoints from intersecting radials: Foreflight will do this I believe. The syntax is in the manual somewhere. Easy to just rubber band to it too unless you're making up RNAV stuff on the fly.

If you could point me to it, I'd appreciate it. I couldn't find it. ForeFlight can do radial/distance waypoints, but I couldn't find radial/radial intersection waypoints. Rubber banding using the charts should get close, but it's just a rough guess at that point since there's no standard waypoint for the software to snap to.


Taxi diagram: meh. Could suck if the algorithm decides to switch when you don't want it to. I don't like screens changing without me telling them to. Kinda falls into the same thing as their transponders that put themselves in Standby on the ground now that the opposite guidance is in the AIM. Gadget that's not needed.

I'd be happy if I could turn the feature off, but I'd be happy to have it at large, unfamiliar airports. It shouldn't be difficult to determine when you're below flight speed and located on the runway (or just exiting the runway) to switch to the taxi diagram.


Nav data bar at top: FF has the flight plan at the top and the real-time dashboard at the bottom. This is a don't-care for me as long as I know where it's at. There's no need for swapping it IMHO. But I bet that could be added pretty easily.

The big reason for swapping the information is that the "dashboard" is more important than the flight plan for navigation purposes. Since I use the iPad on my lap, I have to look WAY down in order to see key information for my current segment, or I can try to pick through and pull out the same information in the flight plan section at the top (which is not as important for navigation). It would be nice to have an option to swap the two, and possibly hide the flight plan / nav log section as can be done with the "dashboard."

When I purchased ForeFlight a year ago, it immediately struck me as lacking in navigation capability compared with the Garmin and Lowrance GPS units that I had used for more than 15 years. However, it provided an excellent way to effectively and inexpensively replace virtually ALL paper in the cockpit, with a fairly clean interface. Although I'd like to see ForeFlight strengthen their navigation capabilities, I suspect that the majority of their customer base already employs other panel or handheld equipment for navigation. However, if Garmin corrects the information weaknesses within their app, it's going to be tough to beat, especially for those who already own other Garmin GPS units.

One thing that I must say is that ForeFlight's support is incredible. They respond, personally, every time, usually within minutes to hours. It's been 2 weeks and I haven't heard a peep from Hilton Software (developers of WingX), and going on 1 week without a response from Garmin. Accessible support and meaningful communication with the customer base is an important criteria in any evaluation, and ForeFlight is top-shelf in this regard.



JKG
 
Last edited:
Fair enough. Playing with that "bug" now. Was that documented on their blog, or...?
 
Fair enough. Playing with that "bug" now. Was that documented on their blog, or...?

Nope, something that they confessed to in response to a support e-mail (see last paragraph of my edited response regarding support.)



JKG
 
When flying VFR, iPad makes for a nice replacement of dealing with folded paper sectionals and thumbing through an AF/D when handling inflight diversions. For that simple usage, then SkyChartsPro is probably the least expensive of all the choices, trumping ForeFlight and WingX. But the latter two have many other capabilities that are potentially very useful that SkyChartsPro can't handle.

At $20, SkyChartsPro is lunch money and may be worth a trial alongside the other options.
 
I really like how Garmin organizes your approach plates into "binders" for your departure and destination.

The current version of ForeFlight allows you to store IAPs in folders of your choice, so you can bundle them as you desire, and you name the folders.
 
At $20, SkyChartsPro is lunch money and may be worth a trial alongside the other options.

It's worth having SkyChartsPro just for the WAC charts, with Mexico coverage.

I organize all my "Aviation Apps" in one folder... some other Apps: GPS HD (Mapping program that lets you download maps to the unit- for when you have no Internet), MyRadar, LiveATC, CloudAhoy, Weax sites, and I put URL links to things like VFRMap, FAA TFR page, eApis, etc.
 
I'm quite happy with Foreflight, but I checked out that WingX posted about earlier in this thread. Two things struck me - track up nav display (awesome) and what appears to be vector overlays for airspace (super awesome).

Those are two features I would love to see in Foreflight. The former would be easy to incorporate, the latter would require another dataset. Having the aircraft position overlayed on a sectional or enroute chart is cool, but sometimes I want just want a feature display just like a normal panel mount GPS.

My airplane doesn't have a panel mount GPS, that's primarily what I'm using Foreflight for. Works great. I can plug in a route in a tenth of the time it takes to plug one in to a 430.
 
Thanks for all the information, everyone!

After much consideration, I decided to go with ForeFlight over Garmin Pilot and WingX. I suppose I'll add my findings into the thread for anyone else that's looking through it:

WingX: I absolutely LOVED the split-screen mode (as others mentioned), couldn't believe that Foreflight and Pilot didn't have the feature. I also really liked the terrain feature (including the "radar altimeter" readout on the moving map page). The entire app worked just as well as advertised, but I couldn't get myself to pay $100/year for such a lousy interface.

Garmin Pilot: Really liked the interface, disliked the fact that I couldn't switch directly between screens (map, flight plan, weather) from a bottom tab like you can in Foreflight. It seemed that the in-air navigation capabilities were significantly better than what Foreflight had to offer, especially with the famous panel view (I really liked the idea of having a HSI visible while flying). It was neat how it automatically created binders based on your active flight plan, but that's something that I would be doing myself anyways during flight planning.

Foreflight: Felt that the moving map interface was slightly more intuitive that Garmin's, and I REALLY liked the fact that I could switch directly between screens from the tab at the bottom of the screen. Pretty bummed that there isn't an HSI, or any graphical cross-track indicator for that matter, which makes it slightly less useful for VFR navigation when you have an active flight plan or direct-to course laid in. But in general, I felt that Foreflight was the most integrated and user-friendly app on the market.

In the end, I went with Foreflight because I felt that having a more integrated and ergonomic interface was more important than having a HSI for navigating with. I'm sure I'd be very happy with either one though.

That being said, I'd drop Foreflight for the capabilities of WingX in a heartbeat if they'd get their stuff together and improve their user interface...
 
This thread kind of suggests a question: If you weren't looking for another flight planning/charting app for your iPad, what would be a really cool iPad app that you wish you had?
 
This thread kind of suggests a question: If you weren't looking for another flight planning/charting app for your iPad, what would be a really cool iPad app that you wish you had?

Probably summed up in this thread.
 
Well, not really. Most of the discussion here has been about flight planning/charting apps.
 
This thread kind of suggests a question: If you weren't looking for another flight planning/charting app for your iPad, what would be a really cool iPad app that you wish you had?

I'd settle for an on-screen keyboard with numbers you didn't have to hit Shift to get to. ;)
 
This thread kind of suggests a question: If you weren't looking for another flight planning/charting app for your iPad, what would be a really cool iPad app that you wish you had?

bluetooth weather radar :D

(not nexrad)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Thanks for posting your summary Godfrey.

Having spent 20 years in the HMI automation software industry watching the development of the products from the VERY beginning until the companies were soaked up by HUGE automation companies, I know that the products will change rapidly. It would be a very good thing to reevaluate the markets offerings every year when your subscription comes due.

Godfrey's evaluation makes me lean toward renewing FF when my subscription renewal comes due in July. I will be doing evaluation of the other two before I pull the trigger though.
 
That being said, I'd drop Foreflight for the capabilities of WingX in a heartbeat if they'd get their stuff together and improve their user interface...

I prefer features over a 'pretty' interface anytime. To me, track up and Zaon traffic support far outweigh the need for a fancy GUI
 
Back
Top