Beechcraft 95 Travel Air Down off Oregon Coast, 9/22/26

Yikes. RHE fail in IMC and pilot never got it under control? Early LHE fail, he controlled it long enough to enter IMC then lose it anyway?
 
SFDukie said:
Your thought is inadvertent flight into IMC?
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From what I've read so far, it doesn't look like IMC.
And it doesn't seem like it was constantly losing altitude, so enough power to stay level.
I wonder if something was going on with the pilot.
 
Disregard. Was going by the thread title (9/22) for the accident date, but it actually occurred on 9/21.
 
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Not sure if they were on the ODP, but here’s that, for reference:

IMG_9383.jpeg
 
schmookeeg said:
yeah that wispy cloud situation is a basic oregon day and should not have downed a travel air. :(
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You wouldn’t think. The flight path consists of fairly gentle and level turns, considering. Very low and crooked, but doesn’t have the vertical component and erratic spiraling usually associated with spatial disorientation. Many of those turns brought him back to a specific point in space. No specific waypoint there that I can discern. ERNEE is close, but a little farther offshore.

Weird one.
 
By the time I thought to look outside it was clear. I hadn't thought to check my ocean facing webcam, I'll do that tomorrow. It appears likely I had the only ADS-B receiver that picked it up, radar out here is only good down to 3000 or so.
He flew that Travel Air a lot and stayed very instrument current, more than once I'd hear a plane after dark and check on-line and sure enough it was him flying approaches. Great loss to his family and the local aviation community.
 
Here's 12:30 and 12:40 local. My house is between the North end of 16 and the beach. The eave of the house points to about 240.
Obviously a mile or 2 North it could have been totally different.
12:30
20260921-124.jpg
12:40
20260921-123.jpg
 
Heads up that the thread title says 9/22, but the accident occurred on 9/21.
 
Ah, the tribalism in aviation.

There's a reason ATP's have to stop @ 65.
...and that's a 2 person crew.

A 78yo flying a piston twin.
By hisself.
:rolleyes:

Thankfully he was alone
over water.
 
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I'm in the "omg septaugenarians crash a lot" camp too, but then I remember that's probably the majority of our flying demographic at this point. like asking why so many teenagers hurt themselves on skateboards.

still fun to poke the jowl squad in the ribs though. :D While I can, still clinging to my 40s and all of the hubris that entails.
 
Picture this:


A 70yo walks in to an aircraft rental place.

What?

You've never seen it?

Me neither.

They'd never rent a single to him,
let alone a twin.


Always owners who can afford a plane..
Rich old guys set to auger in.

No one would ever rent anything to them.
 
MKERSW said:
Picture this:


A 70yo walks in to an aircraft rental place.

What?

You've never seen it?

Me neither.

They'd never rent a single to him,
let alone a twin.


Always owners who can afford a plane..
Rich old guys set to auger in.

No one would ever rent anything to them.
Click to expand...
Just because you realized you should have quit flying long before you did doesn’t mean you’re typical.
 
There ya go,
attack me personally,
don't address the subject.

Feel better?
 
MKERSW said:
Picture this:


A 70yo walks in to an aircraft rental place.

What?

You've never seen it?

Me neither.

They'd never rent a single to him,
let alone a twin.


Always owners who can afford a plane..
Rich old guys set to auger in.

No one would ever rent anything to them.
Click to expand...

Plenty of guys in there 70's and 80's around the local flight school. Some retired airline captains some not. ALL I would fly with before the majority of the 20 something cfi's.
Also just recently flew with a guy that was 86 and still actively flying either his tailwheel or his Mustang jet.

I think its fair to say its a case by case basis, but you can kick rocks with your blanket statements.
 
Looks like a lotta Beechtalk trash here on this forum.
Wouldn't surprise me if the pilot here was a BT Member.
 
MKERSW said:
Ah, the tribalism in aviation.

There's a reason ATP's have to stop @ 65.
...and that's a 2 person crew.

A 78yo flying a piston twin.
By hisself.
:rolleyes:

Thankfully he was alone
over water.
Click to expand...
Our hard sunset date is mostly arbitrary. No real science behind the policy. Although I’m so very grateful it exists.
 
MKERSW said:
Picture this:


A 70yo walks in to an aircraft rental place.

What?

You've never seen it?

Me neither.

They'd never rent a single to him,
let alone a twin.


Always owners who can afford a plane..
Rich old guys set to auger in.

No one would ever rent anything to them.
Click to expand...
That’s not true at all. When I was teaching we had several regular customers in that age bracket.
 
In 2008 a 74 year old pilot walked into a flight school, and rented a Piper Tomahawk. Since he had no experience in that specific model, he requested an instructor fly with him.

That was the Geezer. The agreement with the CFI was that he would fly the plane whenever I wanted to take pictures. Other than that, I took off, climbed descended, flew the pattern, and landed.

At 69, the now official Geezer flew a BFR, and elected to also do a complete ICC, which even included holding entries, and approaches from the hold. I met ALL the standards. That was a long and arduous flight, but I never had the feeling that I was stressed. That included a ground quiz, followed by 2.4 TACH hours flight time.

In 1999, a 64 year old, not yet a geezer, went into an airplane rental in Ireland, showed an active log book with much time in the same model year Cessna 172. Since the airport was with a control tower, and they have some different customs for communication, I requested a CFI to fly with us. Again, he flew when I took pictures. All the rest of the flight was flown by me. The CFI complimented me, saying that my landing was smoother than he usually achieved. His main occupation was flying a turboprop internationally, but he had much less than half as many hours as I did.

I passed my last drivers license eye test without glasses, but wear bifocals for 20/20 vision. My ears are about gone, so flying in the Washington DC airspace is impossible.

I( believe that in my 70's, I was a better pilot than most of the under 30 pilots at my airport. There were of course some excellent young pilots there.

OBVIOUSLY, THIS IS NOT BELIEABLE, AS I AM OVER 65, AND MUST BE SENILE. :eek:
 
MKERSW said:
Picture this:


A 70yo walks in to an aircraft rental place.

What?

You've never seen it?

Me neither.

They'd never rent a single to him,
let alone a twin.


Always owners who can afford a plane..
Rich old guys set to auger in.

No one would ever rent anything to them.
Click to expand...
I've seen it. You don't hang around us old people. I get it. But I'm a couple of decades older than my friends, it turns out. That keeps me young.
And my local flight school will (and does) rent planes out to us dinosaurs.
The owner is older than most of us, and flies sightseeing tours all the time.
 
MKERSW said:
Picture this:


A 70yo walks in to an aircraft rental place.

What?

You've never seen it?

Me neither.

They'd never rent a single to him,
let alone a twin.


Always owners who can afford a plane..
Rich old guys set to auger in.

No one would ever rent anything to them.
Click to expand...
You are pretty ignorant. I’m 78 and still an active CFI, teaching mainly instrument but have a couple Student Pilots. With my instrument clients we fly IMC often. On Flight Reviews I’ve had a lot younger than I not pass the review. So we probably shouldn’t rent to them too using your logic.
 
Several years ago I purchased an RV9A from a small town in Colorado. The owner was tall and slender and a sharp pilot. I could tell he was not young. But he could slide in and out of the RV cockpit easily, he flew very well when checking me out in the plane. He had already purchased a C182 to replace the RV. Wanted to haul his grandkids. I asked if he was retired. He said "partially". Turns out he was an anesthesiologist, said he worked 4-5 days a month at the local hospital "to keep busy". He shared that he would be 82 on his upcoming birthday.

I hope to be like that when I reach his age.
 
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Does advancing age in general degrade pilot performance? Sure, I don't think anyone is going to argue that point.

The airlines retire pilots at age 65, regardless of their health and cognitive abilities and having tens of thousands of hours flying hundreds of thousands of paying passengers riding in the back. Crashes are bad for business and insurance companies don't want to defend decisions based upon public perceptions, even if misguided.

The CFII I used for my Commercial, Multi and CFI/CFII in 2003 had 30,000+ hours of military (B-29's over Japan), airlines then thousands of hours of giving flight instruction. He was 80 years old in 2003 teaching me, and he kept instructing until around his 86th birthday when he lost his medical for heath reasons, retired, then moved to Florida.

This guy handled a plane like he was born in it, stayed mentally sharp, and shared wisdom that comes from surviving 65 years of flying, then sharing it with others. An asset to the community of quality instructors, not just a time-builder moving on at the first opportunity.

Based upon my experience flying with pilots in their 70's and 80's is that we were all born way before the computer age, and it shows. Loran was a real big deal. Not that we couldn't learn and grow as automation advanced, but it takes some of us longer to learn new tricks.

Handling airplanes when growing old is like riding a bicycle or playing catch with a grandkid... flying skill sets (in the great majority of aged pilots) are still there. But a five year old will win an electronic device comprehension and button-pushing contest every time.

Painting all seasoned and aged pilots with the same brush recommending they "ground yourselves before you kill somebody" shows (to me) a lack of life experience, possibly mixed with an oversized ego that probably has killed more pilots and passengers than the older pilots they wish to replace.
 
I know three guys who are in their early 90s who fly several times a week. One of them still does formation flight in his RV. They all look 20-30 years younger than they are, are mentally sharp, and physically fit. From watching them in the pattern and on the ground and hearing them on the radio arriving to busy fly-ins and airports crowded with trainers, they have superior stick and rudder skills, as well as decision making.
 
Thanks, guys, for the well earned praise for thge highly experienced pilots you have known.

My favorite in this category is a flight with a Tuskegee Airman, in his Bonanza. He was in his
80's, but smooth as silk. MKERSW would say he is just a rich dude, flying until hw kills himself, and maybe others, maybe he should be restricted to over water flights like the Oregon pilots crash.
He self terminated his flying, sold the Bonanza, and bought airline tickets for his trips. MKERSW disregards how intelligent most of us older pilots are. We pay close attention to our skills, and quit when the right time comes, to enjoy the rest of our lives. Flying our own planes are not the only focus of life.

One advantage I had on my younger pilot friends was knowing the systems of the limited number of different models I flew, inside out and backwards. When their planes had strange malfunctions, they came to me, and I fairly quickly found the source of the failure.
 
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