Becoming a crash expert

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decalogue

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Does anyone have any information on which TSI Aviation Safety courses people who are already professional pilots would take to reach the same level as NTSB workers?

And if they are even available for non government workers

@Doc Holliday

Think this would be a great course for those who would like to learn more and best learn from others mistakes as well as be able to better analyze NTSBs
 
Start with any free cause analysis courses. Doesn’t have to be aviation specific at all. The concepts are the exact same.

I’ve taken a number of courses over the last 30+ years and I focused on the petrochemical industry. The best in my opinion over the years has been Cause Mapping. https://thinkreliability.com/
 
decalogue said:
Does anyone have any information on which TSI Aviation Safety courses people who are already professional pilots would take to reach the same level as NTSB workers?

And if they are even available for non government workers

@Doc Holliday

Think this would be a great course for those who would like to learn more and best learn from others mistakes as well as be able to better analyze NTSBs
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“To reach the same level as NTSB workers” not only involves formal classroom training but also lots of CBT and most importantly OJT.

Working accident sites under senior Investigators offers what the classroom can’t.

Investigators at the NTSB start out at the regional level and work their way up to the higher levels and eventually the Go Teams. Then you have those who specialize in certain areas (human factors, metallurgy, etc).

There is some good reading on the subjects if you care to do a bit of googling.
 
Doc Holliday said:
“To reach the same level as NTSB workers” not only involves formal classroom training but also lots of CBT and most importantly OJT.

Working accident sites under senior Investigators offers what the classroom can’t.

Investigators at the NTSB start out at the regional level and work their way up to the higher levels and eventually the Go Teams. Then you have those who specialize in certain areas (human factors, metallurgy, etc).

There is some good reading on the subjects if you care to do a bit of googling.
Click to expand...

I was talking the multi day courses we previously spoke about

Also how many crashes do they boots on the ground have to work?
 
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decalogue said:
Does anyone have any information on which TSI Aviation Safety courses people who are already professional pilots would take to reach the same level as NTSB workers?
Click to expand...

decalogue said:
I was talking the multi day courses we previously spoke about
Click to expand...

Guess I don’t understand your “to reach the same level as NTSB workers” part.
 
Doc Holliday said:
Guess I don’t understand your “to reach the same level as NTSB workers” part.
Click to expand...

You said you had to take some of the classes to be a Sr guy, which ones?

Also edited my prior, how many crashes do they have to be boots on ground for?

Thanks
 
decalogue said:
Does anyone have any information on which TSI Aviation Safety courses people who are already professional pilots would take to reach the same level as NTSB workers?
Click to expand...
There are literally dozens of aircraft investigation courses out there from various entities which teach at different levels of skill. For example, in addition to the TSI mentioned above USC, SCSI, and even Embry Riddle all offer accident investigation courses. But none will get you to the “NTSB” level individually or if you took them all. And considering the NTSB only has about 400 employees to handle all transportation accident investigations under their jurisdiction (civil aviation, highway, railroad, marine, pipeline, and bridges) its one of the toughest jobs to get without a stellar resume and a boatload of experience.
 
Bell206 said:
There are literally dozens of aircraft investigation courses out there from various entities which teach at different levels of skill. For example, in addition to the TSI mentioned above USC, SCSI, and even Embry Riddle all offer accident investigation courses. But none will get you to the “NTSB” level individually or if you took them all. And considering the NTSB only has about 400 employees to handle all transportation accident investigations under their jurisdiction (civil aviation, highway, railroad, marine, pipeline, and bridges) its one of the toughest jobs to get without a stellar resume and a boatload of experience.
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Maybe let doc respond, I don’t think the man need a white night sir

Also I wouldn’t mention ERU for creds lol
 
decalogue said:
You said you had to take some of the classes to be a Sr guy, which ones?
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It’s a bit more complicated than that. Like I said, there’s the CBT, then the courses, seminars and then the OJT.


decalogue said:
Also edited my prior, how many crashes do they have to be boots on ground for?

Thanks
Click to expand...

There’s not a number. It got more to do with experience gained.
 
decalogue said:
Does anyone have any information on which TSI Aviation Safety courses people who are already professional pilots would take to reach the same level as NTSB workers?

And if they are even available for non government workers
Click to expand...
Heck, I used to teach at one. I was allowed to take the whole course.

Otherwise, the attendees were NTSB or FAA, all attending as part of their government duties. It was a three-day course, requiring travel to the class location, hotel, rental cars, etc.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Doc Holliday said:
It’s a bit more complicated than that. Like I said, there’s the CBT, then the courses, seminars and then the OJT.




There’s not a number. It got more to do with experience gained.
Click to expand...

Ok, so say just under 10k hr jet pilot and CFI, 91, 121, 135, director of training 135 and training CA.

About what courses?

I get ongoing death by power point
 
wanttaja said:
Heck, I used to teach at one. I was allowed to take the whole course.

Otherwise, the attendees were NTSB or FAA, all attending as part of their government duties. It was a three-day course, requiring travel to the class location, hotel, rental cars, etc.

Ron Wanttaja
Click to expand...

Which class did you instruct at?
 
wanttaja said:
Heck, I used to teach at one. I was allowed to take the whole course.

Otherwise, the attendees were NTSB or FAA, all attending as part of their government duties. It was a three-day course, requiring travel to the class location, hotel, rental cars, etc.

Ron Wanttaja
Click to expand...

Yeah that’s what I was afraid of, go get brews at the local bar, watch PowerPoints and check the box
 
decalogue said:
Ok, so say just under 10k hr jet pilot and CFI, 91, 121, 135, director of training 135 and training CA.

About what courses?

I get ongoing death by power point
Click to expand...

This is not a rating like an FAA certificate.

I really suggest you do some reading on the subject. There’s quite a bit out there.
 
Doc Holliday said:
This is not a rating like an FAA certificate.

I really suggest you do some reading on the subject. There’s quite a bit out there.
Click to expand...

Please link the reading

I’m interested in this, but as someone who has done EMS and DoD stuff Im not sure I want to spend time watching PowerPoints while drinking sock filtered coffee from a paper cup.

Now if it’s legit hands on training, and some good info, I would for sure invest my time and energy however
 
Llewtrah381 said:
It’s beginning to sound like you had a mishap that was determined by the NTSB to be pilot error and you’re not happy with the outcome.
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Nope

Clean PRIA, and to be clear never even scratched paint

What was your background working 121, 135 or for the FAA?
 
decalogue said:
Yeah that’s what I was afraid of, go get brews at the local bar, watch PowerPoints and check the box
Click to expand...
It wasn’t a “starter” class, it was more like continued education. Pretty interesting course, went through some high-profile accidents (like John Denver’s), and there were sessions on Rotax engines and other specific subjects.

I doubt that TSI has any “Accident Investigation 101” classes.

Ron Wanttaja
 
wanttaja said:
It wasn’t a “starter” class, it was more like continued education. Pretty interesting course, went through some high-profile accidents (like John Denver’s), and there were sessions on Rotax engines and other specific subjects.

I doubt that TSI has any “Accident Investigation 101” classes.

Ron Wanttaja
Click to expand...

It got deleted off the other post but they did
 
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