Be careful what you tweet...

[Ted]

Then again, the irish twit didn't make his threat to 'the US' or anyone in the US in particular but rather simply blathered it out to whoever it is that cares what he had for dinner.

So that would be more akin to me saying to Lance (or vice versa) "You see that bouncer-looking guy over there? I'm gonna break his neck!" but saying it in such a way that we should presume the bouncer could hear about it.

The internet is like one big, bustling pub. Word gets around.

 

[Henning]

Where is it written that one must commit a crime to be considered persona non grata for entry in the US or any other country for that matter? I've played the game into many countries and have brought foreign crew into the US onboard ships; they are all the same from a couple different cuts. Those who just don't care about anything and want to collect the fee and get out ASAP, and those who want to win a medal detecting the new French Connection. Handle either with the incorrect attitude and you're in for problems.

 

[gismo]

Then again, the irish twit didn't make his threat to 'the US' or anyone in the US in particular but rather simply blathered it out to whoever it is that cares what he had for dinner.

Exactly. Perhaps a better analogy would be for me to announce to a mutual friend but loud enough to be overheard by many "I'm gonna kill Ted!" in the same joking manner.

 

[Palmpilot]

a consular officer or the Attorney General knows, or has reasonable ground to believe, is engaged in or is likely to engage after entry in any terrorist activity

I'm glad to see that word "reasonable" in there, because I don't see the grounds for suspicion as reasonable, especially after the British slang was explained, a usage that was easily verifiable.

What is reasonable to him may not seem reasonable to you or me.

Based on this incident, I don't think the persons who decided to jail and deport this couple are competent to determine what is reasonable.

If you attempt to enter the US on a visa-waiver, you have given up any due process protections when it comes to being denied admission. The airline has to take you back on their dime. For security purposes, the UK has become a province of Pakistan and germany the northernmost governorate of turkey.

If you don't like the immigration laws as they stand (I dont), elect people with the guts to change them. Dont fault the people who apply those laws.

I don't know whether I object to our immigration laws or not. I just want the people enforcing them to be competent.

I don't think it's possible to legislate away the need for good judgment in the application of the law. I suspect that what's needed is better training.

As for the 'well he didn't mean what he wrote' argument, I just have to reiterate Hennings take on the issue:

Imagine a world where your words have a consequence and people actually thought about things for 12 seconds before blathering inane crap to the world.

Maybe the guy was naive about the level of post-9/11 paranoia in this country, but that doesn't make the handling of this case appropriate. The tweet may have justified an investigation, but it appears to me that the investigation that was done was inadequate and the conclusions idiotic.

It used to be that jokes at TSA checkpoints were forbidden. The scope of that prohibition seems to have expanded to the entire world.

 

[wsuffa]

If you apply for a visa, the US goverment looks at you through the local consulate, if your name matches a watchlist you have the opportunity to show that it's not you by providing supporting information.

Actually, you'll never know that you're on a watch list as the US government has declared them to be secret (as in "we won't tell you" - I don't know what the actual classification level is, it may be secret, TS, or SCI). Ergo, you can't address any watch list issue because you won't know.

I do find it quite interesting that the son of the US Transportation secretary has ended up on such a secret list maintained by Egypt, which has prevented him from leaving the country. The US is protesting that, but at the same time the US acts in a very similar fashion.

Once you have the visa, the number of reasons to be denied entry is a lot shorter. And if you are denied entry, you typically receive a provisional admission and you have to make your case why you shouldn't be sent back at a hearing before an administrative judge within 48-72hrs.

The Immigration inspector has a great deal of discretion in this. He/she can deny you entry for a lot of reasons. Yes, there is a procedure manual. And yes, the Visa indicates preliminary approval. But there's a lot of discretion & the inspector has the final say. It's also interesting to note that a lot of consitutional protections don't apply at the border - Customs can search or seize items (including computers) without warrant and they can deny access to legal counsel during interrogation. In the end, though, they must admit US citizens. That's not true for foreign nationals.

 

[weilke]

Actually, you'll never know that you're on a watch list as the US government has declared them to be secret (as in "we won't tell you" - I don't know what the actual classification level is, it may be secret, TS, or SCI). Ergo, you can't address any watch list issue because you won't know.

They dont tell you whether you are on a watchlist. They get back to you and ask for documentation that shows to them that you are different from the person who shares your name. 'So Dr Ahmed Mohamed, you state in your biography information form that you studied at Alexandria university, please provide us a copy of your transcript from Alexandria university and 2 faculty references'

The Immigration inspector has a great deal of discretion in this. He/she can deny you entry for a lot of reasons. Yes, there is a procedure manual. And yes, the Visa indicates preliminary approval. But there's a lot of discretion & the inspector has the final say.

With a visa, the inspector has the authority to refer someone further into the process (secondary inspection, detention, hearing), it is different from the visa-waiver where he can just put you back on the next plane. Many visitors dont understand this distinction. The consulates in the visa waiver countries try to not issue visas to reduce their workload, you have to prod them to give you one (standard reason would be that you are planning a side-trip to the caribbean).

Wouldn't have made a difference for the irish twit, he made the 'threat' (however overblown it is to see his blather it as such) after the point in time where one would have obtained a visa. A visa wouldn't have done much for him.

It's also interesting to note that a lot of consitutional protections don't apply at the border - Customs can search or seize items (including computers) without warrant and they can deny access to legal counsel during interrogation.

Some of those expanded title 8 and 19 powers reach beyond the border, some of them with a geographic limitation, some without (wherever you are in the US, you have to allow an immigration officer to search your 'conveyance' for the presence of aliens, he can't demand to search it for drugs though).

 

[Maxmosbey]

I don't think this kind of thing is new. I remember them deporting John Lennon in the seventies for performing "Give Peace a Chance."

 

[Maxmosbey]

I think that a lot of people who do not use twitter do not realize how valuable it is. They just see things like this article, and they think that is all it is.I ended up with a facebook and twitter account mostly because of work. During the summer I supervise 85 lifeguards at an aquatics center. We keep them updated on our facebook page. If the weather looks iffy, or if we close early for some reason, they can see it on facebook, or they get a tweet. In turn, I have a facebook account so that I can check in on what is going on before I head out to work. There is just a lot of up to date information that we put on that page. I also get tweets from work letting me know what is going on, so that when I get there it doesn't take me an hour to figure it out. I also belong to a couple of professional organizations. They tweet a lot of good information that is pertinent to my profession. I am always looking at tweets to see what is being discussed out there. Right now the Red Cross is changing a lot of programs. I am in the process of updating my Red Cross Lifeguard, Lifeguard Instructor, and CPR/AED Instuctor ratings online. Twitter is helping me keep track of the webinars that I need to listen to in order to complete that. It is also keeping me updated on new material that is being released by the Red Cross. I don't know how I would do my job without them.

 

[Ted]

Exactly. Perhaps a better analogy would be for me to announce to a mutual friend but loud enough to be overheard by many "I'm gonna kill Ted!" in the same joking manner.

I think this is where the perspective is different. To me, it would be like you telling me (loudly enough that the large bouncer-looking-guy) "I'm gonna kill that bouncer-looking guy!" Since he doesn't know you, he probably won't be too happy.

But if you were saying it to me, since we're friends, I'd just raise my glass and we'd continue enjoying our evening. I might make some wise crack about your plane.

 

[weilke]

I think that a lot of people who do not use twitter do not realize how valuable it is.....

Twitter and facebooks are just media to transmit information, no different from a cellphone. Whether you use it to update 85 lifeguards on the weather or whether you share the details about last nights dating exploits is up to the user.

 

[denverpilot]

They're just more of the same... PoA is indexed by Google almost the second you hit send... Twitter and FB, the same... if you don't want it on the Internet forever, don't hit send.

As far as watch lists go, I'd be honored to be on one if it meant that someone at DHS actually thought I had the clout to get their budget cancelled.