Basic Med - vision issue

Mahneuvers

Mahneuvers

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Mahneuvers
I had a Basic Med doctor appointment today. He gave me a thorough eye exam, much more through than I remember going through 4 years ago when I 1st switched to BM. I only brought my distance glasses. He wouldn't sign off b/c he didn't like my reading distance results. He said I have to go to an eye doctor before he'll sign off, or come back w/ my reading glasses. Seems weird to have the results dependent on the hardware you bring to the exam.
 
<shrug>
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You're asking the doc to sign on the dotted line, but you're not demonstrating that you have good near vision, which is one of the examinations he's required to make. Why are you surprised he won't sign?
 
Mahneuvers said:
Seems weird to have the results dependent on the hardware you bring to the exam.
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It shouldn't since you're supposed to fly with that hardware. If you need your reading glasses, which apparently you do, if you fly without them you're in violation of the Self-Certification you're supposed to do before every flight while using the Basic Med. And your Doc is checking you out in your "Flying Mode."

Years ago a switched to progressive lenses which are GREAT for flying. Gives you the distance on top, mid correction for the panel and near for the iPad. One note on the progressive lenses, there are two types, one with a very narrow mid range and the one you want with a wide midrange. (Don't know what they're called, but your eyeglass place will.)
 
M20K said:
...Years ago a switched to progressive lenses which are GREAT for flying. Gives you the distance on top, mid correction for the panel and near for the iPad. One note on the progressive lenses, there are two types, one with a very narrow mid range and the one you want with a wide midrange...
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Great advice. I need to get myself a pair. I have progressive lenses but they don't have reading at the bottom. I use different glasses for reading and until today, not having reading at the bottom hasn't been an issue.
 
bbchien said:
This is the same sort of complaint that makes me discount a lot of the bitching about Class 3. "Show us"!
Please, don't waste yours and my time.
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I’ll go a step further. Once you’ve reached the point in life where your vision requires any sort of correction, go to the optometrist/opthalmologist BEFORE you go to the AME/BM doc. Every visit I have with my eye doc I have him specifically check me against the Class 2 requirements, just to be certain that nothing has changed that would cause an issue.

As an aside, they now make multi-focal contact lenses that are absolutely fantastic, and will pass the eye exam for most people.
 
Such a simple fix,I would go to an eye doctor for a sign off. Never know what the doctor could find,may need an adjustment to your glasses.
 
Mahneuvers said:
I have progressive lenses but they don't have reading at the bottom.
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I'm not familiar with progressive lens that don't have reading "bifocals" at the bottom. What are your lenses "progressing" into if not close up reading?
 
WDD said:
I'm not familiar with progressive lens that don't have reading "bifocals" at the bottom. What are your lenses "progressing" into if not close up reading?
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I'm sure what I'm about to say is completely false so don't hold me to it! I've been wearing two types of glasses for years at the recommendation of my optometrist. I have "work" glasses which work well focusing on something as far away as a computer screen and as close as a book. I then have "every day" glasses which help with distance and items as close as a computer screen, but are terrible for reading. If I were to guess, I bet it has something to do with where on the lens these focal points exist. It's likely the full progression exists in both glasses, but, the glasses are tuned to optimize certain focal distances so you don't have to keep adjusting your head to try to find the correct adjustment. So, although the full progression exists, certain focal distances are practically unusable.

I have an optometrist appointment on Monday. I'll ask about this and report back.
 
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Mahneuvers said:
I have progressive lenses but they don't have reading at the bottom.
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If they are actually Progressive and they were made properly, you should. Progressive are basically shaped like an hourglass with the top part being your far vision, the middle being your mid vision (this is where you need to get the wide middle type) and finally the bottom is for your near vision. So the bottom are basically readers.

The other key is that they are truly "progressive" and there are not just three set focal lengths. I can move my head ever so slightly to bring anything into focus. I do not need to move the paper (or myself) to get something in focus.
 
I recently had cataract surgery, and had my default vision set to reading distance. (As opposed to the six inches I've been used to for six decades.)
So my bifocals (do not like progs) are for distance and instrument panel. I can look over my glasses for up close stuff.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
do not like progs
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A lot of people don't and say it's hard to walk down steps or off a curb, etc. I didn't get that at all when I got my first pair. Then I got my second pair and didn't really notice a difference inside when I picked them up, but I quickly understood what people were saying when I left the store. Then looked at my old lenses and then the new ones and that's when I learned there were different kinds of progressive lenses with the wide and narrow or narrow middle part. Who knows, you might like the wide type.
 
The standard requirement even for a first class is:

Near vision of 20/40 or better, Snellen equivalent, at 16 inches in each eye separately, with or without corrective lenses. If age 50 or older, near vision of 20/40 or better, Snellen equivalent, at both 16 inches and 32 inches in each eye separately, with or without corrective lenses.​
 
Mahneuvers said:
I had a Basic Med doctor appointment today. He gave me a thorough eye exam, much more through than I remember going through 4 years ago when I 1st switched to BM. I only brought my distance glasses. He wouldn't sign off b/c he didn't like my reading distance results. He said I have to go to an eye doctor before he'll sign off, or come back w/ my reading glasses. Seems weird to have the results dependent on the hardware you bring to the exam.
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I remember needing reading glasses about 20 years ago, short arm disease. AME had a set of different powered ones in his desk, pulled out a pair to finish exam and said go to Walgreens and supply my own next year.
 
StraightnLevel said:
As an aside, they now make multi-focal contact lenses that are absolutely fantastic, and will pass the eye exam for most people.
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Ooh... I very recently started using progressive lenses at home - I've heard vaguely about these contacts. They are worth switching from my normal contacts since I have close-up issues now? Are there any drawbacks?

I typically fly with contacts so I can use sunglasses easily.
 
Baked Potato said:
Ooh... I very recently started using progressive lenses at home - I've heard vaguely about these contacts. They are worth switching from my normal contacts since I have close-up issues now? Are there any drawbacks?

I typically fly with contacts so I can use sunglasses easily.
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Depends. I just started needing distance correction and that correction was just enough to also need near correction so I opted for multifocal contacts. My optometrist recommended the Dailies Total1 multifocals and mentioned she has several flyers already on them; some started with something different and moved to these for a better/more natural outcome.

They aren’t cheap, but they’ve given me no issues in the cockpit or driving.
 
Baked Potato said:
Ooh... I very recently started using progressive lenses at home - I've heard vaguely about these contacts. They are worth switching from my normal contacts since I have close-up issues now? Are there any drawbacks?

I typically fly with contacts so I can use sunglasses easily.
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I love ‘em. The final push for me was trying to manage reading glasses with sunglasses and or foggles. At that point I decided to try the multi-focal lenses, and the transition for me was less than 48 hours before I was completely sold.

Apparently, though, not everyone can use them effectively. I don’t know the underlying reasons, but the eye doc told me that somewhere around 20% of the patients he had tried them with just couldn’t use them.
 
Baked Potato said:
Ooh... I very recently started using progressive lenses at home - I've heard vaguely about these contacts. They are worth switching from my normal contacts since I have close-up issues now? Are there any drawbacks?

I typically fly with contacts so I can use sunglasses easily.
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My optometrist told me NOT to wear them flying because not as much oxygen gets to the eye. I ignored that advice for local one hour flights, but would wear glasses for longer cross countries.

The other downside is it took more light to read a book or magazine or paper.

Maybe the technology has improved and these aren’t issues any more. IDK because I ditched contacts five years ago after cataract surgery.
 
@WDD I had my optometrist visit today. In brief, they can make progressive lenses to be whatever you want. When we came up w/ the two glasses approach I've been using for many years, I didn't need or want reading at the bottom. It has worked just fine -- I've never struggled to read anything in the cockpit.

The Basic Med doc gave me a two page document to have the optometrist fill out. The optometrist thought it overkill. The doc instructed me to mail the forms to the FAA. I can't help but think this doc is handling me like a Class 1 or something versus Basic Med. After all, I don't mail my Basic Med documentation to the FAA. Why would they now want my vision test?
 
No……………

Do not mail anything to the FAA.

Go find another Doctor and start Basic Med exam again. Ignore this current doc - have nothing to do with him/her again. Take whatever forms he/she gave you and burn them.

Is this doc an AME by any chance?

Yikes!!!!
 
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Van Johnston said:
My optometrist told me NOT to wear them flying because not as much oxygen gets to the eye. I ignored that advice for local one hour flights, but would wear glasses for longer cross countries.

The other downside is it took more light to read a book or magazine or paper.

Maybe the technology has improved and these aren’t issues any more. IDK because I ditched contacts five years ago after cataract surgery.
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So, you brought up O2 permeation and that’s what my eye doc said the Dailies Total1 were best at.

I have notice my slightly more light needed to read by but I suspect that may have as much to do with aging as anything. Really fine print and low contrast between the printing and the background are where I have what little trouble I have.
 
M20K said:
A lot of people don't and say it's hard to walk down steps or off a curb, etc.
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The “etc.” that I had trouble with when I got bifocals was trying to see the toilet through the reading part when I pee. My eye doc said she’d never heard that one before.
M20K said:
Who knows, you might like the wide type.
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Taken out of context… :rofl:
 
Mahneuvers said:
@WDD I had my optometrist visit today. In brief, they can make progressive lenses to be whatever you want. When we came up w/ the two glasses approach I've been using for many years, I didn't need or want reading at the bottom. It has worked just fine -- I've never struggled to read anything in the cockpit.

The Basic Med doc gave me a two page document to have the optometrist fill out. The optometrist thought it overkill. The doc instructed me to mail the forms to the FAA. I can't help but think this doc is handling me like a Class 1 or something versus Basic Med. After all, I don't mail my Basic Med documentation to the FAA. Why would they now want my vision test?
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Run, do not walk, away from this guy. If you signed anything authorizing him to release your medical records to anyone, send him a certified letter rescinding all such authorizations.
 
bbchien said:
Oh fer chr__sake, just go back and demonstate you can see, near as well as far....
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Bruce, the Basic Med physician told him to mail the two-page form (???!) from the optometrist to the FAA.
Mahneuvers said:
The doc instructed me to mail the forms to the FAA.
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That seems wholly inappropriate for Basic Med, doesn’t it?
 
Most basic med phyiscians have seen zero or one of them. They have no idea. he just needs to show up, SEE near and Far, and get the attest signed. The isusance of the Basic med tells the agency that it was for a basic.

Yes he should revoke at that time, any ability to share, but mostly he has to show up and demonstarte that he can see. You just don't show up to any BASIC unable to see, both near and far.

What's the doc supposed to do- Oh you can't read near worth a darn, I'll sign off on Basic, anyway?
 
Yep, it was appropriate for the Basic Med doc not to sign as the OP could not demonstrate appropriate vision. OP should have said “my fault, let’s suspend this and I’ll come back with my glasses to finish”

Also, if the doc had said “come back with your glasses and we can finish the exam” we’d be done.

But sounds like the doc has now determined not to ever sign the Basic Med. The “dangerous” part now is he/she wants paper sent to the FAA. This is dangerous as it could trigger an application for 3rd class, denial, lord knows what. Concern is what else is the doctor going to do?

Hence, at this point better to punt, restart.

The Dr isn’t a bad guy, but the OP’s lack of taking glasses to exam and the Dr’s reaction have created a situation that is kind of a mess. Just go to a doctor in a box that does DOT exams. And OP, don’t forget to take your glasses
:cool:
 
My understanding of the requirements for basic med vision is that my vision is good enough to get a driver’s license in my state(20/50 in best or even only eye in my state) and the examining state physician stating I see good enough to operate an airplane or motor vehicle. I see no specific requirements otherwise for what that vision should be. Please educate where it states I must meet the class 3 requirements.
 
Eldorado said:
My understanding of the requirements for basic med vision is that my vision is good enough to get a driver’s license in my state(20/50 in best or even only eye in my state) and the examining state physician stating I see good enough to operate an airplane or motor vehicle. I see no specific requirements otherwise for what that vision should be. Please educate where it states I must meet the class 3 requirements.
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I believe the Basic Med vision requirements are 20/40.
 
Eldorado said:
My understanding of the requirements for basic med vision is that my vision is good enough to get a driver’s license in my state(20/50 in best or even only eye in my state) and the examining state physician stating I see good enough to operate an airplane or motor vehicle. I see no specific requirements otherwise for what that vision should be. Please educate where it states I must meet the class 3 requirements.
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BasicMed is not a fourth class medical certificate— it doesn’t have any specific standards. It’s up to the physician’s clinical judgement.
 
Eldorado said:
…. Please educate where it states I must meet the class 3 requirements.
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It doesn’t. The CMEC states Vision (distant, near, and intermediate vision, field of vision, color vision, and ocular alignment). Since there is no established standard the physician performing the exam can use whatever standard they want, to include having you stand on your head and read Moby Dick in the dark if they wanted to.
 
TCABM said:
It doesn’t. The CMEC states Vision (distant, near, and intermediate vision, field of vision, color vision, and ocular alignment). Since there is no established standard the physician performing the exam can use whatever standard they want, to include having you stand on your head and read Moby Dick in the dark if they wanted to.
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For me it was reading Dumas’ The Three Musketeers in the original French. Unfortunately, being upside down caused my contacts to rotate and screwed up the astigmatism correction. When I explained the problem, he said to use the eye chart instead. I said, “The chart on that wall over there?” He replied, “Close enough,” and passed me.
 
Can the human ear distinguish upside down vs right side up French? Would you have been reading the book in reverse? English sounds like Swedish when played backwards. What does French played backwards sound like?
 
WDD said:
Can the human ear distinguish upside down vs right side up French? Would you have been reading the book in reverse? English sounds like Swedish when played backwards. What does French played backwards sound like?
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I believe French played backwards sounds like the trumpet call for retreat....
 
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