Banner tow plane down......

Discussion in 'Lessons Learned' started by Mike Smith, Aug 5, 2018.

  1. Mike Smith

    Mike Smith Pattern Altitude

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  2. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 Pattern Altitude

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    Lots of dangers. Looks like there were two on board which would make it sound to me like a trainee / checkout situation.
     
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  3. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    During the pickup sequence, hitting the ground with the plane, catching the banner rope with the landing gear, letting the hook hit the ground, rain soaking the banner and dragging the plane to fly too slow, pulling up too quickly after snagging the banner and stalling into the ground, and mostly for me it was having an idiot instructor.

    Otherwise it is not inherently dangerous.
     
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  4. Mike Smith

    Mike Smith Pattern Altitude

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    It wasnt raining and it appears to have gone in nose first, so catching the landing gear or pulling up and stalling would seem the most likely of those.... obviously it’s a sad deal no matter how it happened.
     
  5. Stan Cooper

    Stan Cooper Line Up and Wait

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  6. arnoha

    arnoha Cleared for Takeoff

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    Those pickups generally happen at KLVK now. The banner tows pick up in grassy strip between the two runways.

    Heh, and when the zeppelin was flying around here, I've seen it land at KLVK, too. I remember tower calling out the airship as traffic once for me...not exactly hard to spot!
     
  7. Davecat

    Davecat Pre-Flight

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  8. Mike Smith

    Mike Smith Pattern Altitude

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    What does this have to do with the accident?
     
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  9. Davecat

    Davecat Pre-Flight

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    Well...because the person arrested was the pilot of the banner tow. Like I said, bad behavior elicits bad behavior. Take your pick. Skipping a checklist comes to mind, anything really. Considering the history with illegal activities the cause could be anything out of the ordinary....will have to wait and see...

    Tragic, a beautiful family left behind.

    http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2018_08_04_archive.html
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  10. Mike Smith

    Mike Smith Pattern Altitude

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    So, you don’t know but thought it would be fun to throw that out there. Got it.
     
  11. Stan Cooper

    Stan Cooper Line Up and Wait

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    It does appear the validity of the deceased pilot's commercial certificate was in question.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Mike Smith

    Mike Smith Pattern Altitude

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    Whether or not he had a valid certificate has zero impact on the cause of the crash.
     
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  13. Stan Cooper

    Stan Cooper Line Up and Wait

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    I'm not suggesting it did. Certificates don't expire though, so if it wasn't valid the reason would typically be that it had been suspended or revoked. I feel sorry for his wife and kids.
     
  14. Mike Smith

    Mike Smith Pattern Altitude

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    I would expect the suspension is a result of the flying pot conviction. Has nothing to do with why the plane crashed and he died.
     
  15. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Line Up and Wait

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    The FAA Airmen's Registry has a note that "certificate may not be valid".
    Or perhaps the crash and the suspension had the same root cause: poor decision making. We know about the conviction (and the slap on the wrist), and we know that he was flying without a valid ticket (and thus, likely, no insurance.) As to the actual cause, we'll let the FAA figure it out, as usual. But the accident chain was started by getting in a plane essentially unlicensed.
     
  16. Mike Smith

    Mike Smith Pattern Altitude

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    Or perhaps he was a DEA informant and they hired an assassin to kill him. Perhaps Pablo Escobar is really still alive and sent some Sicarios to take him out. Perhaps the line guy put Jet A in his Champ. Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps....Perhaps he had a mechanical issue. Perhaps he made a mistake. We can "perhaps" all day. But one thing I know for damn certain is that whether a piece of plastic is valid or not, whether a guy flew pot or not, has zero to do with the airplane hitting the ground. We dont really know what the status of his certificate is, we can "perhaps" it, but we dont know.

    This is just false.
     
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  17. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    Don’t think it is. *IF*, and that’s a big if, his license was suspended for just cause, than who are to say he was actually competent?
     
  18. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Unforgiving

    Always wanted to try banner ops
     
  19. Mike Smith

    Mike Smith Pattern Altitude

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    Who is to say he isnt? He broke the law and was flying pot. If in fact his certificate is suspended for that, I get it. That does not equal incompetent.
     
  20. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    It does lead to disregard for regulation/safety practices however.
     
  21. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 Pattern Altitude

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    This convo brings to mind the whole “let he who has no sin cast the first stone” deal. I mean, I’m not excusing the drug deal, but if we wanna really go there, if you have ever gotten a speeding ticket in your life - or not gotten a ticket but you know you’ve justified it...


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  22. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    A speeding ticket is not the same as drug trafficking.

    Shame on you.
     
  23. simtech

    simtech Pattern Altitude

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    A buddy of mine was the new hires commercial CFI. I feel bad for all involved. My buddy was up giving a lesson when he saw the smoke and they didnt know what happened. Saw the fire truck and plane and when he landed found out it was his former student :(
     
  24. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 Pattern Altitude

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    I disagree with regards to Aviation. Speeding and reckless driving, especially as a habit is anti-authority, and possibly other hazardous attitudes just as much as anything else and it directly corresponds to operating a motor vehicle.


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  25. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    You truly believe 28 mph in a 25 zone is equal to drug trafficking???

    No winning here. I’m done.
     
  26. Stan Cooper

    Stan Cooper Line Up and Wait

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  27. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Perhaps in some cases, but I have had many speeding tickets during my time on earth, but I was a very safe and competent pilot. I still am, and I've been flying 44+ years and over 25K hours.
     
  28. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 Pattern Altitude

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    I actually don’t totally disagree, but I was trying to point out that the arguments being used here are arbitrary. It does sound like the guy had a problem, though.


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  29. Shepherd

    Shepherd En-Route

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    Not a job I was even remotely interested in doing.
    RIP.
     
  30. Stan Cooper

    Stan Cooper Line Up and Wait

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  31. Mike Smith

    Mike Smith Pattern Altitude

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    Very sad that these two men died in this accident. It does seem that this accident had not a thing to do with any past indiscretions. Pilot had a current pilot certificate and a current medical. The narrative attests that he did a thorough and complete preflight. My reading of the report leads me to believe this was a competent pilot who did everything right. Right wing drops you pick it up with left rudder, standard spin recovery technique. Perhaps there was a W&B issue that caused the flat spin, we will probably never know. One thing that seems certain is that the pilots past problems had nothing to do with the accident. May they both rest in peace.
     
  32. Stan Cooper

    Stan Cooper Line Up and Wait

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    I completely agree.
     
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  33. falconkidding

    falconkidding Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Probably just a normal stall spin. Heavier than normal and they tape the stall horn off so if new guy was flying might have stalled out on the climb out and got ground rush and didn’t get forward elevator in.