Bad Students

Yeah, you’re probably right and that’s my fault.

Knowing nothing about you as a CFI, your CFI peers, nor your school’s operation, I am truly coming from curious:

What’s behind your motivation that this student is successful?

If the student pilot never solos, do you see that as a failure on your part?
 
Young Master Braxton/Brayden/Bryson doesn't have parents, he has friends with money who are precisely one generation older than he is. You get paid to fly and babysit. You get hours and cash. Assess no-show fees so you're never hosed. Teach the stuff and try to find a way to capture his tiny ember of attention span long enough to keep it interesting and educational. Failing any of that, at some point you just gotta say F it, we're flying out for a $400 hamburger courtesy of friend mom and friend dad. Over and over and over.

Enjoy it. :)
I know you meant this as an insult, but, perhaps ironically, a few $400 "hamburger runs" may be exactly what the kid needs to recapture his excitement.
 
I know you meant this as an insult, but, perhaps ironically, a few $400 "hamburger runs" may be exactly what the kid needs to recapture his excitement.

I'm not sure which part was insulting. We had a few of these characters at our flight school over the years, they're just partying in a different way. I applaud OP's search for how to get through to them, but not everyone is taking flying *lessons*, some are just taking flying.
 
He wants to get his fixed wing rating to reduce the cost for the helicopter stuff.

It would appear that the main objective of his training is not being accomplished, and given this objective one can assume that his sponsors are not swimming in cash.

Have a talk with the bill payers. They, not the kid, are the ones who will cause problems for you and the school when they become dissatisfied with the kid's progress. Plus, they can probably do more to motivate the kid than you can.
 
Does he have his medical certification in hand? Perhaps, if he has a complicated background involving ADD/ADHD/anti-depressive drug Rx, you will find out just how dedicated (or not) he is. ;)
 
Maybe a chat with his parents, since they are footing the bill. Were that my kid, and you to give me feedback like that, he'd loose his funding.
One of the instructors I work with had a similar student. Had the chat with the parents. Kid has stopped flying. On the other hand I his dad soloed last Monday.
 
Not an uncommon issue with younger pilots. Is one reason I usually won't solo them or work on navigation x/c training until they complete the knowledge test.
I have had to tell a few pilots we need to hit the brakes on the flying because they are not keeping up with the knowledge phase. Usually something like, until you complete the knowledge test (or insert any other goal you like here) we are only going to fly once every two weeks just to maintain your current skill level.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
I'm not sure which part was insulting.
I forget that some people have no idea how their communication comes across to others. I've bolded the insulting bits. If that wasn't your intention, I apologize for assuming.
Young Master Braxton/Brayden/Bryson doesn't have parents, he has friends with money who are precisely one generation older than he is. You get paid to fly and babysit. You get hours and cash. Assess no-show fees so you're never hosed. Teach the stuff and try to find a way to capture his tiny ember of attention span long enough to keep it interesting and educational. Failing any of that, at some point you just gotta say F it, we're flying out for a $400 hamburger courtesy of friend mom and friend dad. Over and over and over.
 
I don't know anything about this student or instructor other than what is in this thread. And believe it or not I am sometimes accused of being heartless or completely uncaring (something I call "being realistic").

I will forever be thankful that I have a relationship with my parents that fosters clear communication. That we discussed my interests and they allowed me to start flying lessons the summer I turned 14.

But, why is someone who lacks interest in aviation wasting his time and parents' money supposedly pursuing a career in aviation? Social media is filled with people who managed to get someone else to pay for flight school (or who went into debt to finance it) who question themselves daily. Joining this student who by accounts chooses not to study or even show up (Woody Allen said that "80% of success is just showing up") are a host of people who seem not to want to be on the course they have embarked upon.

Maybe I just live in the woods under a rock. I know parents who push their kids to be doctors, lawyers, engineers, or to follow in their footsteps and take over the family business one day . . .

I cannot say that I have ever heard of parents pushing their kid to be a professional pilot.

You know, if he isn't motivated, and doesn't choose to "get it", maybe it isn't his "thang".
 
I forget that some people have no idea how their communication comes across to others. I've bolded the insulting bits. If that wasn't your intention, I apologize for assuming.

I guess I forget everyone is offended by everything nowadays. Sorry all but one of my sentences gave offence. :P I'll work on tuning up the remaining one to be consistent.
 
It is possible to teach a bad student, but only if he’s motivated. It is possible to teach an unmotivated student, but only if you’re living in a 1980s movie.

I would talk to the parents and let them know that fixed-wing training might help save money on rotorwing training, but it would be a lot more effective if the student consistently showed up for lessons, demonstrated a real desire to learn, and put in some study time to get ready for the required knowledge test. If appropriate, explain that you’re happy to keep flying with their investment at their expense, but they should seriously consider whether they would see a better return from golf lessons, a summer backpacking in Europe, or a new PlayStation.
 
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I guess I forget everyone is offended by everything nowadays. Sorry all but one of my sentences gave offence. :P I'll work on tuning up the remaining one to be consistent.
I didn't say I was offended. I said your remarks were insulting to the student. But do you really think that it's only "nowadays" that people would be offended by your making fun of their name, behavior, and parents? On the contrary, it's only nowadays that people do such things safely from behind the comfort of a screen and keyboard.

Screenshot_20250602-134556.png
 
On the contrary, it's only nowadays that people do such things safely from behind the comfort of a screen and keyboard.
I find it interesting how many people default to this assumption with absolutely no actual knowledge of the person making the statement.
 
My advice ... fire him, send him packing, tell him when he's ready to adult he can come back.
 
91.205 is pretty basic and honestly should be critical to know for you to assess general airworthiness. Any private pilot and higher should know the required instruments for day and night VFR.
We learned all the stuff without the use of an acronym
 
I find it interesting how many people default to this assumption with absolutely no actual knowledge of the person making the statement.
I didn't say anything about the person making the statement, only his relative safety. Back in the "good old days," you'd have to make fun of someone's name and family to his face. People still did it. But in my circles, that stood a good chance of leading to the type of altercation not possible from behind a keyboard.
 
We learned all the stuff without the use of an acronym
One problem with the flaming fruit mnemonic is that it sets a precedent that there should then be a mnemonic for IFR instrumentation, dual ADC instrumentation, RVSM instrumentation…the list is almost endless, but the only one that seems to exist is the VFR one.
 
There is no need to memorize the required equipment, mnemonics or not. It’s not a time-critical matter; there is plenty of time during preflight to check the POH or whatever if there’s a question about it.

Save the bandwidth for stuff that really does need to be stored in RAM.
 
I DESPISE mnemonics . . . be they acronyms or not. Natural acronyms, or portmanteaus, are fine. But, I really don't care for the contrived ones.

I got through a couple of semesters of Geology with "The Girls Can Flirt and Other Queer Things Can Do."
I started out in Electrical Engineering with "Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls But Violet Gives Willingly (for silver and gold)."
Right now, I'm the Vice President of the American Wine Society where knowing that "Michael Jackson Makes Small Boys Nervous" is helpful.
Then there's always True Virgins Make Dull Company Add Whiskey.
 
I think it’s funny that everyone is getting caught up on a mnemonic. I think OP’s point was simply that the student fails to recall basic study.

As a CFI, I couldn’t care less how someone learns something, as long as they do. Use an acronym or don’t, makes no difference.
 
The only mnemonics I know are FACE and Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge... and those are only useful in the beginning of music lessons...
 
Gump is the only on to know and always complete. In my Cessna, down and visible was the U.

Many years ago, as I rolled out on the runway, I announced to my wife that I had landed wheels up.
We are not retractable, was her response.
Yes, but with the distraction of maneuvering around that no radio calls straight in, I did not check, first time since getting my Commercial.
 
I think it’s funny that everyone is getting caught up on a mnemonic. I think OP’s point was simply that the student fails to recall basic study.

As a CFI, I couldn’t care less how someone learns something, as long as they do. Use an acronym or don’t, makes no difference.
Except that by using the specific mnemonic example that he did,it appears the OP is expecting a student to memorize something that shouldn’t be memorized.
 
Except that by using the specific mnemonic example that he did,it appears the OP is expecting a student to memorize something that shouldn’t be memorized.
:yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat:
Primary sources are the only things that count. The regs say what you need to demonstrate, everything else is chaff.
 
The only mnemonics I know are FACE and Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge... and those are only useful in the beginning of music lessons...
Good Boys Do Fine Always and All Cows Eat Grass for the bass clef.
 
Please elaborate? What kind of magnetic direction indicator is not a compass?
(serious question, not trying to bait anyone)

You'd think so, but (for example) too many people still think one of the M's stands for "Magnetic Compass"

Nauga,
fluxed up
 
Good Boys Do Fine Always and All Cows Eat Grass for the bass clef.

I never did learn any for the bass clef. But then I didn't need any...reading music came easy for me.
 
Please elaborate? What kind of magnetic direction indicator is not a compass?
(serious question, not trying to bait anyone)
A magnetometer with appropriate processing and displays.

Nauga,
double-boxed
 
I never did learn any for the bass clef. But then I didn't need any...reading music came easy for me.
Guitar or brass player? I suffer from that a bit as I went from guitar to piano.
 
Interesting! So a modern glass panel doesn't require a whiskey compass to compliment it. That sounds suspiciously like progress.
A magnetometer with appropriate processing and displays.

Nauga,
double-boxed
 
Guitar or brass player? I suffer from that a bit as I went from guitar to piano.

actually piano first. I didn't pick up the trumpet until about 10 years later.
 
actually piano first. I didn't pick up the trumpet until about 10 years later.
I did guitar->accordion->trumpet->organ->piano. You can skate on the bass on the accordion as well.
 
I've had students who lacked motivation and/or self-discipline. I would not let that continue very long if their parents were footing the bill. Advise the parents, and if nothing improves, fire the student. Yeah, he's 18 and an adult, but he is not acting like one and they are wasting money on someone who apparently doesn't appreciate it or deserve it.
 
I think it’s funny that everyone is getting caught up on a mnemonic. I think OP’s point was simply that the student fails to recall basic study.
As the one who brought it up, I meant to suggest the CFI may be focusing on the wrong things, at least for this student. He's a kid. He wants to see progress and neat things in his training, not just drilling the same unnecessary mnemonic every week. I don't see anything about tomato flames in 61.87, which would be my focus until after first solo, especially for someone not great with the book stuff.
 
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