Bad news

jordane93 said:
I actually just got a call from the chief pilot because I put in a request for outside flying and said it would be approved. My flight school is open but barely doing anything. We just have occasional renters and really no one is doing instruction. I’m firing off an application to Shelt Air for a line service job. I figure if I make a good impression they’ll take me back if I get furloughed in the fall.
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Make sure you are allowed to work other jobs while you are working for them. Don't want to get caught in a technicality. I had an instructor go to work for a large corporation, he had to give up all other aviation jobs to work there.

Edit, whoops, never mind, just read your message again.
 
PaulS said:
Make sure you are allowed to work other jobs while you are working for them. Don't want to get caught in a technicality. I had an instructor go to work for a large corporation, he had to give up all other aviation jobs to work there.

Edit, whoops, never mind, just read your message again.
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I think all of those restrictions go away once you get furloughed.
 
Just re-hacked a returning guy in my squadron who got stopped 2 weeks shy of completing 73 school with mother D. He probably won't be back for another 5-6 years, since he got his line number, and can keep the Active duty cheddar going until the airlines get back up to speed. Silver lining for him, since these first couple of years are not even gonna go against USERRA the way things are going.

His first remark to me while waiting on the hammerhead was how grateful he feels he hadn't separated yet, and how terrible he feels for those civilian-only folks who don't have a lucrative full time job to fall back on via the military. I certainly second his sentiments. Stocking groceries as a fall back from flying airliners certainly puts in perspective the opportunity costs of the career when pursued as a "first-payer" job as I call it. Seems the "second-payer" career guys have a much easier time weathering the fickleness of the job, especially so for those with dependents and high fixed overhead life stage.

Good luck to all going forward. This will really shake out on September 2020.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Just re-hacked a returning guy in my squadron who got stopped 2 weeks shy of completing 73 school with mother D. He probably won't be back for another 5-6 years, since he got his line number, and can keep the Active duty cheddar going until the airlines get back up to speed. Silver lining for him, since these first couple of years are not even gonna go against USERRA the way things are going.

His first remark to me while waiting on the hammerhead was how grateful he feels he hadn't separated yet, and how terrible he feels for those civilian-only folks who don't have a lucrative full time job to fall back on via the military. I certainly second his sentiments. Stocking groceries as a fall back from flying airliners certainly puts in perspective the opportunity costs of the career when pursued as a "first-payer" job as I call it. Seems the "second-payer" career guys have a much easier time weathering the fickleness of the job, especially so for those with dependents and high fixed overhead life stage.

Good luck to all going forward. This will really shake out on September 2020.
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Agreed. I was in the last generation of wayward airline pilots. I left AD in late 2000 with a job at one of the legacies. But, I also was hired as a part-timer in my local ANG unit to keep the military clock going for retirement. The legacy job lasted all of 10 months before 9/11. Luckily, I was able to get hired as a GS-13 working in my ANG unit almost immediately, so I really never skipped a paycheck. My buds who decided to make a "clean break" from the AF when they separated were really scrambling trying to pledge to whatever unit they could find.

It sounds like the cycle is continuing, unfortunately.
 
hindsight2020 said:
His first remark to me while waiting on the hammerhead was how grateful he feels he hadn't separated yet, and how terrible he feels for those civilian-only folks who don't have a lucrative full time job to fall back on via the military. I certainly second his sentiments.
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That's great, but military aviation is not an option for everyone. Even if they had the aptitude, do you really want people flying in the military because of opportunity costs, or that it'd be more fun? Of course not. My grandfather put that exact decision in front of me as a junior in HS (soooo long ago!), and I chose the civilian path* because I couldn't look him in the eye and tell him that my primary motivation went beyond flying airplanes.

Still, I wanted to fly airplanes, so here I am. This career isn't some big mystery, or at least it shouldn't be. The downsides and risks are well known and have been hashed out ad nauseam here and everywhere. I think you and I agree on the realities, but we differ about the conclusions. Certainly this industry has ground up and spit out lots of pilots through no fault of their own. But for every one of them there are tons of guys that even through the down cycles have had a pretty damned good career (by our standards at least - perhaps not yours) on the aggregate. They've got better things to do than troll APC, and I fly with these guys all the time. We have a self deprecating sense of humor and we ***** about our contracts incessantly, but when push comes to shove only a tiny fraction of us wouldn't choose to play in this crazy sandbox all over again. :)

Just gotta go in with your eyes open. This situation is no good for anyone (aviation or otherwise) and I think we'll have a better idea of just how bad it's gonna be in a few more months. If anything it's a good lesson for those thinking about a flying career based only on the gravy train that's existed this past decade. Can't have a short memory in this business.

* - EDIT, upon reading that again it sounds really presumptuous. Maybe better to say that I chose not to attempt to go the military route.
 
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@jordane93 I hope your time away is short! I got my retirement orders yesterday so I know I'm leaving the USAF but I have no idea what I'll be going back to at Delta. Certainly a first world problem since I have some seniority but I really wish we all had a way to make a plan for the future. Good luck and I hope you are back in Delta training before me!
 
jordane93 said:
No update on Delta but I did get an interview with Stop & Shop which is a grocery store tomorrow. Hopefully I’ll get the toilet paper hook up. I’ll be working in the produce section if I get the job!
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Wear a mask.
 
catmandu said:
So you'll get paid to handle melons. Nice! The organic ones are the best.
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Absolutely! Organically grown melons are much better than those <genetically> modified ones...but each to their own!
 
Sluggo63 said:
Agreed. I was in the last generation of wayward airline pilots. I left AD in late 2000 with a job at one of the legacies. But, I also was hired as a part-timer in my local ANG unit to keep the military clock going for retirement. The legacy job lasted all of 10 months before 9/11. Luckily, I was able to get hired as a GS-13 working in my ANG unit almost immediately, so I really never skipped a paycheck. My buds who decided to make a "clean break" from the AF when they separated were really scrambling trying to pledge to whatever unit they could find.

It sounds like the cycle is continuing, unfortunately.
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Yep. Best advice I think anyone ever gave me in my entire life, in hindsight, was to pursue a Reserve/Guard flying job as priority #1, and worry about airline interviews as #2. I know a lot of folks who swapped those priorities or just did a clean break as you mention, and are in a very tenuous spot right now. Think I need to ship him a really nice bottle of something brown or something to say thanks. My last day on AD was 31 Jan 2020.......how things changed very quickly after that :eek:
 
Delta just posted that the MD88/90 fleet is going away in June. All roads look like I’ll be getting back to NYC when a displacement bid is finally posted. Last revenue flight is June 1st, possibly earlier.
 
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jordane93 said:
Delta just posted that the MD88/90 fleet is going away in June. All roads look like I’ll be getting back to NYC when a displacement bid is finally posted. Last revenue flight is June 1st, possibly earlier.
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That explains why they sent my buddy home just 3 days before his checkride.
 
jordane93 said:
Delta just posted that the MD88/90 fleet is going away in June. All roads look like I’ll be getting back to NYC when a displacement bid is finally posted. Last revenue flight is June 1st, possibly earlier.
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Sounds like my buddy gets a new type rating soon then...
 
Stolen from another group. LOL.
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