bad job references

Zeldman

Zeldman

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Future Speedo Zeldman
Going with the resume threads, what happens when a former company that a person left on good terms finds out that company is lying and giving bad job references?

I have always given great job references for the good people, and if someone was just not making the grade I would just state that all we do is validate employment and dates employed.
 
If the company is not being neutral, they open themselves to a lawsuit. Which is why most companies only confirm salary and dates of employment. Check with your state Labor & Employment department or whatever it's called. If the person has proof of good work, e.g. evaluations, etc, then a letter to the state dept. may be in order.

I ran into this a few years ago - manager I worked for was hostile, stated I was fired for incompetence, etc. Even "quoted" a former manager claiming she agreed I was incompetent. Result was that my unemployment request was denied. When I called her, she was livid and joined in the battle. The kicker was that the letter from him to HR stating my incompetence was dated more than a week after I was terminated. In other words, he was trying to cover up. Violation of state law (*evil laugh*). He got into deep doo-doo, caused the company to get into deep doo-doo, and I got unemployment. Of course there's more to the story but that gets into a morass that involved the 2013 sequestration hassles since we were subcontractors on a federal contract and we don't need to get into that here.

Rule: Always document everything. Always get copies of everything.
 
References are different than employment history. My employer only confirms employment. Now, if the individual put me down as a reference, that's totally different.
 
GlennAB1 said:
References are different than employment history. My employer only confirms employment. Now, if the individual put me down as a reference, that's totally different.
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Some companies are even stricter. When I was a manager for a large regional company, the only information I was allowed to provide was verification of employment dates. Period. It didn't matter whether they'd put me down as a reference. I wasn't allowed to provide one.

I thought that was pretty constraining in the cases of employees whose employment was never intended to be permanent, such as college kids who were hired as seasonal help. What I usually did in those cases (assuming I actually liked the employee) was say something like, "Our company policies forbid me from being a reference for former employees. But if that were not the case, the things I would tell you about this particular employee would all be positive."

Rich
 
The problem is that this was a seasonal job. The person is a good pilot, semi-retired and works seasonal jobs for fun. The person was well liked and was asked if he wanted to return next season by the chief pilot.

The next season came and that person was told that there was no position open for him, all filled.

Then it came out later that one person in the company told another company that was calling for job history or reference. That company was told that this person was fired towards the end of the season and asked not to return, and had a negative attitude.

It just astounding that one person would just lie like that, which will probably cost the company.
 
Zeldman said:
Going with the resume threads, what happens when a former company that a person left on good terms finds out that company is lying and giving bad job references?

I have always given great job references for the good people, and if someone was just not making the grade I would just state that all we do is validate employment and dates employed.
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That is standard practice in my industry. Often times, I might be approached by a colleague - someone I know personally about a potential candidate. I'll be straight up with them on the good points and the bad points. Otherwise, if it's a no go, I'll give the standard kiss of death confirmation of employment only response.
 
Taking to people who have been references for me and people who have used me as a reference it seems like a lot of places don't even bother to call.
 
Not too many organizations ask a former employer for "references"; just confirmation of employment, maybe job title. Refernces are usually personal contacts the applicant provides. I can't think of any good readson for an organization to volunter anything about a former employee, except when it's a legal obligation to do so.
 
Sac Arrow said:
That is standard practice in my industry. Often times, I might be approached by a colleague - someone I know personally about a potential candidate. I'll be straight up with them on the good points and the bad points. Otherwise, if it's a no go, I'll give the standard kiss of death confirmation of employment only response.
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The smaller the industry or city/town, the more personal contacts people have. The official reference may be nothing of interest, but the real story can be had.

Sounds like a completely different problem for the OP though. Someone saying someone else was fired and had a bad attitude when they weren't informed of any such thing is one of the reasons the lawyers won't let anyone say jack anymore, and could get that place in a lot of trouble.

Problem is circular though. If you decide to cause a place said "trouble" and it's a small specialty or small geographical area, word is going to get around that you caused trouble -- even if justified someone is going to spin it. And now you're the "troublemaker".

Sometimes it's worth it, sometimes it's not. One of the places I worked had the snot kicked out of them by a former employee who was terminated without any real cause being given in a State where none is needed, but they didn't plan on him having tracked his time worked for years and years down to the minute and he nailed them with the State's overtime laws.

Rumor was he got a nice lump sum settlement and no place would hire him after that news got around, but the rest of us highly enjoyed being yanked off of salary and made hourly at a place that often pushed 80 hour weeks, at no change in hourly rate! Holy hell I made money there after that. Cash cow. Thanks ticked off fired guy! LOL! (Probably worked out better for those who were still there than the guy who fought them and won.)
 
And there is the problem. My buddy is retired and works for fun. So what if he tosses in the towel and decides to not fly anymore. His thought is that this specific company needs to find out they can't lie about former employees without consequences.

I understand what is being said that he can be branded as a trouble maker and no one will want to hire him. But as he tells me, its about what is right, and he can move anywhere he wishes to go. The management that lied live in the area. Word will get around on him as well. My buddy has been around. He has played the game successfully.
 
denverpilot said:
Sometimes it's worth it, sometimes it's not. One of the places I worked had the snot kicked out of them by a former employee who was terminated without any real cause being given in a State where none is needed, but they didn't plan on him having tracked his time worked for years and years down to the minute and he nailed them with the State's overtime laws.

Rumor was he got a nice lump sum settlement and no place would hire him after that news got around, but the rest of us highly enjoyed being yanked off of salary and made hourly at a place that often pushed 80 hour weeks, at no change in hourly rate! Holy hell I made money there after that. Cash cow. Thanks ticked off fired guy! LOL! (Probably worked out better for those who were still there than the guy who fought them and won.)
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My current house was bought from money I made from suing a former employer for overtime pay. I took his retirement fund away from him, and I do not feel even a tiny bit bad for him. He cheated employees for years, and then it cost him. All the money did not go to me. Many, many employees, current and former, were contacted and asked if they wanted in on the suit.
 
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