bad flying day

mmilano

mmilano

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
242
Location
Temecula, CA
Display Name
Display name:
Mike Milano
for the rest of the day i would find myself saying under my breath "what an idiot" referring to myself. lol

i was doing t&g's in the pattern cause i haven't flown the 152 in a while. i did all my night stuff in a 172. my first landing was rough, so i took a break and went back up for some t&gs.

i was being put through the ringer, and the tower lady was nice, but not attentative as i would have liked her to be. she kept switching me from right to left traffic, .. and when i would take off again, i'd have to ask her where she wanted me.

one time she had me 'extend upwind' and forgot about me, and did not respond to my request for turning crosswind when i was over the shorline nearly out of the airspace.

another lap she had me do a VERY short approach.

another time i turned left base per her request, and then she told me to fly through base and keep heading north. then i did a 180 and came back for a right base to land.

good practice right? that is how i was taking it.

well anyway, what really ruined the day was this. keep in mind, all this stuff and i only did 3 t&gs, and 1 full stop. i was on my last lap, right traffic, normal pattern.

as i was a-beam the numbers, the radio went something like this.
tower: 7py (me) you're following a cessna on long final, clear to land.

me: 7py requesting full stop

tower: full stop approved, you are clear to land.

me: clear to land 7py.

( ok wtf? i still don't see cessna traffic, he must have passed me already )
** i turn base **

another pilot: tower, we just had a cessna pull out in front of us.

me feeling like a total ass: 7py i'm sorry, thought i was cleared to land.
Click to expand...
she had the other pilot do s-turns and i don't even know if they landed or went around, but i was feeling completely incompitant and humiliated.

looking back on it, the biggest thing i learned was never doubt my first instinct. i knew there was someone else on final, but i gave ATC the benefit of the doubt during that second call when she cleared me to land.

any other time i have landed behind traffic it is always something like:

"do you have cessna traffic in site"
if i confirm, then they say "ok, you are #2 behind traffic, clear to land.
if i do not, then they usually do not clear me to land until traffic has passed, and maybe tell me to extend downwind.

-or i get -
7py #2 clear to land

i did not get a sequence number. i did get that i'm following cessna traffic on the first call which is why i felt completely stupid.

so that was my day at the field. i guess it's a good thing it happened now and not on my checkride in a few weeks.
 
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Cleared to land means just that, and you didn't do anything wrong unless I'm missing something. Now it sounds like the tower screwed up the a/c sequencing, and there's a lesson in that. Don't assume that the tower hasn't screwed up -- look for traffic just like you would at an untowered field.

One minor comment, unless they clear you specifically for a T&G or "the option" you are cleared for a full stop landing. If you're cleared for "the option" you can either do a full stop, a stop and go, or a T&G -- it's your choice.

Don't be too hard on yourself -- just use this as a learning experience.
 
It happens, and it happens to pilots with a lot more hours than you. I think you handled it as best you could, remained vigilant, and learned from it. So, now you are a better pilot!
 
hmm - tower should have verified that you had the cessna on final in sight. I'm thinking you were right here (although see and avoid can always snag ya).

After you requested the full stop, tower should have repeated the cessna on final. My understanding is that they can't clear you to land unless you confirm that the traffic is in sight, or its no longer a factor.

I could be wrong tho.
 
Sounds like the tower assumed when they said that your were following a Cessna on long final that ytou would process that as number 2 to land.

It was not the best radio call, when in doubt you could have queried the tower as to the traffic location prior to your turn to base to final.

Remember when controllers screw up pilots die, when pilots screw up, pilots die.
 
well at least i know this situation will never happen again. thanks for the comments. i'm sure there are a gabillion other situations that can only be learned from experience.
 
Actually Mike I'd call it a good flying day. Before your final full stop approach the tower gave you a good workout. You've got a lot of experience now that a lot of pilots (particularly those flying out of uncontrolled fields) simply don't have. That's experience that could come in very handy some day.
 
Mike ya learned and ya lived so you learned a good lesson. FWIW you can always ask the tower to call your base if you are unsure of traffic on final.
 
Mike sounds like you did just fine. Only one suggestion though, maybe next time you want more practice and it is busy at your airport try and go to another airport close by that may not be so busy and you can get more time working on landings. But once again good job.
 
i suppose it was a good day afterall :)

going to another airport would be a good idea if there were any in the area that i was endorsed to land at. i'm endorsed to land at a few fields in orange county since that is where i began my training. carlsbad is the only one down south i have an endorsement for to land solo.

hopefully in a few weeks i won't have to worry about landing endorsements anymore.
 
RotaryWingBob said:
Now it sounds like the tower screwed up the a/c sequencing, and there's a lesson in that. Don't assume that the tower hasn't screwed up
Click to expand...

Amen.

I was out with my eye eye yesterday afternoon shooting practice ILS approaches, and the app controller was having a bad day, many small aircraft out there were missing their calls, not following instructions, etc., and the guy was getting fustrated. You could hear him dispensing attitude on some of his multiple calls to these guys.

We were shooting ILS 20, and were on a long downwind for the approach on heading 020 east of the approach. I was abeam the NDB identifying the IAF, so was expecting a vector anytime to 270 or thereabouts to head west to join the approach.

His first call to me, I heard my tail # but another transmission walked on the rest of his call. I replied "depp, bugsmasher12345." Reply: "Bugsmasher 456, turn left heading 110." I acknowledged, and began my left turn, and turned to my eye eye and said that must be in error, that would be a 270 degree left turn heading us ESE away from the inbound course.

I punched the button "App, BS12345, verify heading 110." Then I got some attitude in a very sarcastic voice, "Yes, 456, for the third time, left turn heading 110...wait...OK, 456, left turn heading 260." My reply: "BS456, left turn 260, thank you."

EDIT: Right after this exchange my eye eye told me this is why you should always strive to know where you are in the airspace, and be ahead of the airplane enough to know what to expect to come next. I know back in my early IR lessons, I probably would have blindly turned left to 110, as I didn't yet have the mental bandwidth to fly on instruments AND keep track of our location in airspace and anticipating our next action. :EDIT

Thirty seconds later I got vectored to 230, joined the loc and then gs, and completed my practice ILS.

They're human, sometimes they screw up just like we do. Sometimes they have a big workload and get a bit fustrated and edgy, but we have to work with them.

Anytime you question a vector or request, ask them to verify...no harm, no foul, and it may keep you from an accident.
 
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mmilano said:
for the rest of the day i would find myself saying under my breath "what an idiot" referring to myself. lol

i was doing t&g's in the pattern cause i haven't flown the 152 in a while. i did all my night stuff in a 172. my first landing was rough, so i took a break and went back up for some t&gs.

i was being put through the ringer, and the tower lady was nice, but not attentative as i would have liked her to be. she kept switching me from right to left traffic, .. and when i would take off again, i'd have to ask her where she wanted me.

one time she had me 'extend upwind' and forgot about me, and did not respond to my request for turning crosswind when i was over the shorline nearly out of the airspace.

another lap she had me do a VERY short approach.

another time i turned left base per her request, and then she told me to fly through base and keep heading north. then i did a 180 and came back for a right base to land.

good practice right? that is how i was taking it.

well anyway, what really ruined the day was this. keep in mind, all this stuff and i only did 3 t&gs, and 1 full stop. i was on my last lap, right traffic, normal pattern.

as i was a-beam the numbers, the radio went something like this.

she had the other pilot do s-turns and i don't even know if they landed or went around, but i was feeling completely incompitant and humiliated.

looking back on it, the biggest thing i learned was never doubt my first instinct. i knew there was someone else on final, but i gave ATC the benefit of the doubt during that second call when she cleared me to land.

any other time i have landed behind traffic it is always something like:

"do you have cessna traffic in site"
if i confirm, then they say "ok, you are #2 behind traffic, clear to land.
if i do not, then they usually do not clear me to land until traffic has passed, and maybe tell me to extend downwind.

-or i get -
7py #2 clear to land

i did not get a sequence number. i did get that i'm following cessna traffic on the first call which is why i felt completely stupid.

so that was my day at the field. i guess it's a good thing it happened now and not on my checkride in a few weeks.
Click to expand...

If no contact and time is running low always just radio,
"Tower, where's our traffic ?"
 
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