Back to the drawing board

[FloridaPilot]

So today I get an e-mail (Not a phone call) about my instructor who is leaving to go to the airlines. This is my second instructor who left in less than 1 year. I don't know if I'm that bad a pilot, the market has picked up for pilots or the pilots I select are really good, (Maybe a little of everything).

I'm VERY selective on who I fly up with to the point of annoyance from the school.

Some of the things I look for is:

Do I get along with the instructor: I'm really serious about this. If I don't get along very well with him/her why on earth would I spend ANY time with them in an airplane.

Is the instructor detail oriented: When I ask a question about an instrument on the panel and he/she says: "I don't know" That is a red flag to me. I know there are different planes out there but if you don't have the Cessna 172 down cold, (Even though you trained in a Piper) how on earth are you going to teach me? And what if we have to use whatever I'm asking about in the air........to save our hide?

Someone with at least 90 QUALITY Hours: There are some out there with less then that. I did a intro flight with someone that said all it takes is 30 hours to earn your private pilot that is the absolute minimum. I reminded him that it takes 40 for your private pilot and that is what I was looking for. For some reason he didn't want to appear "Wrong" so he told me he would look it up.

Someone with patience: I'm a very SLOW learner when it comes to flying. I have never flown before, nor do I know anyone who flies so it's going to take time to get everything together. I had an Instructor watch me write with my left hand and he said: "No wonder you are bad at flying you are left handed" It didn't bother me much, I just realized that my instructor wasn't a good fit.

These are some of them, and believe me when I tell you I'm not that picky at all I just want a QUALITY learning experience and I don't want to UNLEARN bad habits from the start.

What do you guys think?

What I picked up from POA:

Pay as you go: This is VERY valuable advice! The first school I went to went out of business, (Bay Air) In Saint Pete FL and if you would've paid the full amount your money would've had the same result as throwing it down a hole to never return.

Check the overall condition of the airplanes: I'm not a mechanic but I can look and see if the airplane inside as well as outside has been well kept. If they haven't with oil leaking, (Yes, I have seen that before) then it's time to find another school. Engine outs are rare but they do happen and leaking oil no matter how much can be a future sign of that happening.

Check the instructors log book: But do it because you want to see what it looks like as a student but in reality you are checking his/her hours.

Is the school close to where you frequent: Do you have to drive 40 mins to get there every time you have a class?

If anyone would like to add feel free!

 

[dans2992]

I used an instructor who instructed part time (had a non-aviation related FT job). In my experience, these guys are usually pretty good.

 

[kenjr]

Man, sorry you are having such a rough time with this. I'd think in FL, it wouldn't be that hard to find a quality CFI. I flew with three CFI's during my PPL training over ~7 months. My main CFI was out getting his hot air balloon pilot rating for several weeks...and of course it was right before I was going to solo...so I had to use a different CFI for that. I used a newly minted CFI on a couple short flight right before my checkride because she had done all her checkrides with the same DPE I was using and she had some great tips/pointers.

Anyway, makes me feel pretty lucky that I found one that stuck for the duration. That said, that was a lot of the reason why I picked him. I informally interviewed 4 different CFI's and really wanted him. He's been flying for 40 years...can fly anything...helicopters, gyro's, sailplanes, hot air balloons...he's a mechanic which I LOVED, ATP rated...the works. He doesn't take many students because he works on all the school's planes plus a B-25 that flies for the CAF that the chief CFI of my school owns. I promised him that I would be low maintenance (already had ~25 hours many years ago of instruction, had solo'd, etc...) and that I'd show up ready every time.

It worked out.

I drove about 25 minutes to my airport/school. But by the time you factor in travel both ways, getting early for pre-flight, etc..., waiting for the CFI from time to time, getting gas after the lesson (and I did 2 hours lessons each time)...you are looking a good half-day to get a lesson done. But, I preferred the 2 hour slots...they were exhausting especially on pattern days where we'd do 25 landings in a row but I felt like it was a better use of my time.

If I were you I'd try to find someone who not on the ATP path to go fly for the airlines. My school has 2 CFI's there full time that are retired and now teaching for a living. Both of them are ex-military pilots. Shop around...it'll be worth it in the end.

Good luck!

 

[frfly172]

Have you tried cirus aviation at SRQ?

 

[FloridaPilot]

I used an instructor who instructed part time (had a non-aviation related FT job). In my experience, these guys are usually pretty good.

Part time instructors?

What was/is his backround? How many hours?

Man, sorry you are having such a rough time with this. I'd think in FL, it wouldn't be that hard to find a quality CFI. I flew with three CFI's during my PPL training over ~7 months. My main CFI was out getting his hot air balloon pilot rating for several weeks...and of course it was right before I was going to solo...so I had to use a different CFI for that. I used a newly minted CFI on a couple short flight right before my checkride because she had done all her checkrides with the same DPE I was using and she had some great tips/pointers.

Anyway, makes me feel pretty lucky that I found one that stuck for the duration. That said, that was a lot of the reason why I picked him. I informally interviewed 4 different CFI's and really wanted him. He's been flying for 40 years...can fly anything...helicopters, gyro's, sailplanes, hot air balloons...he's a mechanic which I LOVED, ATP rated...the works. He doesn't take many students because he works on all the school's planes plus a B-25 that flies for the CAF that the chief CFI of my school owns. I promised him that I would be low maintenance (already had ~25 hours many years ago of instruction, had solo'd, etc...) and that I'd show up ready every time.

It worked out.

I drove about 25 minutes to my airport/school. But by the time you factor in travel both ways, getting early for pre-flight, etc..., waiting for the CFI from time to time, getting gas after the lesson (and I did 2 hours lessons each time)...you are looking a good half-day to get a lesson done. But, I preferred the 2 hour slots...they were exhausting especially on pattern days where we'd do 25 landings in a row but I felt like it was a better use of my time.

If I were you I'd try to find someone who not on the ATP path to go fly for the airlines. My school has 2 CFI's there full time that are retired and now teaching for a living. Both of them are ex-military pilots. Shop around...it'll be worth it in the end.

Good luck!

Wow! I hope I can find someone like that, lots of good knowledge and good stories to tell!

Have you tried cirus aviation at SRQ?

I haven't yet so far the flight schools near my work in the Tampa bay area. I sent them an e-mail a while back about prices..etc but I didn't get a response back. Is there anyone there you recommend?

 

[DesertNomad]

I found a CFI who has about 16,000 hours and is about 70 years old... So he is not doing this to build time and has been a GREAT instructor. I would look for someone like him that is not going to leave for the airlines.

 

[Reedster]

You are the customer, and you are spending a lot of money and time on this. You definitely have the right to be very selective on who you spend your time with.

I was lucky when I did my Private (20 years ago). I had no issues with ithe CFI that I had my intro flight with, and stuck with him through the 8 months to get my PP. I didn't know better at the time, but in retrospect, I now know I got lucky with him.

Years later when I went to do my IR training, that CFI had moved out of state. I had done enough BFR's and checkouts to know that there were certain types of CFII's I liked to train with better than others. I love to learn and don't do well with the type that tells you what to do, but doesn't have any depth.

There was an FBO close to my house that I started my IR with. They had about 5 or 6 CFII's. Very quickly I realized I liked the two that were ATP's and were almost never available. After working with a few that I didn't care for, I finally called a CFII that had done my last BFR. He was at an airport almost 50 miles from my house. I worked with him 2 or 3 times a week. It was a pain, but I thought he was a great instructor, and a great guy. I enjoyed the time and passed my practical with no issues.

Obviuosly to me the CFI is a very important part of your experience. All of the other instructors were probably very good, but they didn't work for me.

 

[docmirror]

I found a CFI who has about 16,000 hours and is about 70 years old... So he is not doing this to build time and has been a GREAT instructor. I would look for someone like him that is not going to leave for the airlines.

Any old crusty is better than an airline wanna be.

 

[Henning]

So today I get an e-mail (Not a phone call) about my instructor who is leaving to go to the airlines. This is my second instructor who left in less than 1 year. I don't know if I'm that bad a pilot, the market has picked up for pilots or the pilots I select are really good, (Maybe a little of everything).

I'm VERY selective on who I fly up with to the point of annoyance from the school.

Some of the things I look for is:

Do I get along with the instructor: I'm really serious about this. If I don't get along very well with him/her why on earth would I spend ANY time with them in an airplane.

Is the instructor detail oriented: When I ask a question about an instrument on the panel and he/she says: "I don't know" That is a red flag to me. I know there are different planes out there but if you don't have the Cessna 172 down cold, (Even though you trained in a Piper) how on earth are you going to teach me? And what if we have to use whatever I'm asking about in the air........to save our hide?

Someone with at least 90 QUALITY Hours: There are some out there with less then that. I did a intro flight with someone that said all it takes is 30 hours to earn your private pilot that is the absolute minimum. I reminded him that it takes 40 for your private pilot and that is what I was looking for. For some reason he didn't want to appear "Wrong" so he told me he would look it up.

Someone with patience: I'm a very SLOW learner when it comes to flying. I have never flown before, nor do I know anyone who flies so it's going to take time to get everything together. I had an Instructor watch me write with my left hand and he said: "No wonder you are bad at flying you are left handed" It didn't bother me much, I just realized that my instructor wasn't a good fit.

These are some of them, and believe me when I tell you I'm not that picky at all I just want a QUALITY learning experience and I don't want to UNLEARN bad habits from the start.

What do you guys think?

What I picked up from POA:

Pay as you go: This is VERY valuable advice! The first school I went to went out of business, (Bay Air) In Saint Pete FL and if you would've paid the full amount your money would've had the same result as throwing it down a hole to never return.

Check the overall condition of the airplanes: I'm not a mechanic but I can look and see if the airplane inside as well as outside has been well kept. If they haven't with oil leaking, (Yes, I have seen that before) then it's time to find another school. Engine outs are rare but they do happen and leaking oil no matter how much can be a future sign of that happening.

Check the instructors log book: But do it because you want to see what it looks like as a student but in reality you are checking his/her hours.

Is the school close to where you frequent: Do you have to drive 40 mins to get there every time you have a class?

If anyone would like to add feel free!

You need to find a retired pro pilot/lifelong CFI who is doing it for the flying. If you are in the Fort Lauderdale area, I can hook you up with a good one who isn't going away.

The thing is commercial flight training schools are basically 90 days per rating on average, and you often fly with multiple instructors. They are geared towards getting people into airline jobs from nothing in the minimum time, not towards slow learners looking for a new hobby. For that another model of instruction works better. That is what you need to look for. It exists, it's just not as common as most Commercial flight schools because the market is much smaller.

 

[BigBadLou]

I made one important move in my flight training. I did not want to overpay via a school so I bougt an old beat-up trainer and hired an independent CFI with a great attitude.
I second the advice on part-time CFI, they are usually aviators at heart and are not in it for the money or airline career.

 

[FloridaPilot]

Any old crusty is better than an airline wanna be.

There is SOME truth to that, I use to believe that

But my first instructor was fairly new around my age and was VERY thorough. We would go through TWO checklists before going up and I
admire that about him. Every item he would examine it to make sure it's airworthy not just look and see if it's there, (The item in your checklist may be there but how do you know it's not loose unless you check it fully). He bolted to Texas for an airline job. I can't blame him, he wanted to secure a better job for him and his family. I still keep in touch with him via e-mail.

I think attitude and detail orientation is the difference between a busy CFI and a CFI who has no clients.

 

[LuisO]

Where are you in the Tampa Bay Area? Can you make it to KVDF?

If so, I wholeheartedly recommend Chuck Norris (yes that's his name). He was my primary and instrument instructor, nice guy, knowledgeable, AND most importantly he has no interest in going to the airlines, he does this full time out of Global Pilot Academy flight school there.

PS: this guy is no old crusty or young wannabe, he's prolly in his late 40s.

 

[docmirror]

There is SOME truth to that, I use to believe that

But my first instructor was fairly new around my age and was VERY thorough. We would go through TWO checklists before going up and I
admire that about him.

In the finance business we would call that 'churning' the account. Always good for billables. :wink2:

 

[FloridaPilot]

In the finance business we would call that 'churning' the account. Always good for billables. :wink2:

That is okay,

He was so thorough that I felt totally safe the plane was ready to go. I'm okay with spending a little more because of that. He also educated me on what would happen if we didn't check a certain item and if that item failed.
It's painstakingly long but you learn a lot and I always appreciated that!

 

[Hank S]

My primary CFI was an accountant who audited hospitals for Medicare. She taught some evenings and most weekends, but that was fine as I worked during the week, too.

She'd been flying for ~15 years, and had just finished her CFI; I was her first student. We clicked, and things went well. My checkride was at 52 hours, including flights with two additional instructors to make sure I was ready.

It all boils down to how well you and your instructor get along, and does his/her teaching style and attention to detail suit you.

Good luck, and fly safe!

 

[asechrest]

If I recall, you're on the east side of the bay? I think I even remember a post from you before you started training, wherein I offered to introduce you to my instructor. That offer still stands. She's over at KPIE, is a former corporate pilot, and now teaches because she enjoys it. There is at least one other instructor at the school that is also a full time instructor and not airline-bound.

 

[jordane93]

Nothing wrong with a CFI building time for the airlines. As long as he makes it clear to the students that that is his plan and be prepared to leave eventually

 

[James331]

So today I get an e-mail (Not a phone call) about my instructor who is leaving to go to the airlines. This is my second instructor who left in less than 1 year. I don't know if I'm that bad a pilot, the market has picked up for pilots or the pilots I select are really good, (Maybe a little of everything).

Guessing you're using a large flight school. Best not to get fast food flight training. Find a independent CFI who is also an ATP, anyone worth his salt can work out the aircraft rentals, be sure he's also a current pilot, you'll thank me for it later.

I'm VERY selective on who I fly up with to the point of annoyance from the school.

Not selective enough.

Someone with at least 90 QUALITY Hours: There are some out there with less then that. I did a intro flight with someone that said all it takes is 30 hours to earn your private pilot that is the absolute minimum. I reminded him that it takes 40 for your private pilot and that is what I was looking for. For some reason he didn't want to appear "Wrong" so he told me he would look it up.

Anyone who gives you a firm number on how long a PPL will take, ether doesn't know much about CFIing or is trying to con you. I told my guys that most AVERAGED 60hrs, the FAA required 40 but 60 was a good number, again it mostly depends on the student, and of course me as a CFI too.

These are some of them, and believe me when I tell you I'm not that picky at all I just want a QUALITY learning experience and I don't want to UNLEARN bad habits from the start.

Again, stay away from the kiddies in the big box schools, get that independent ATP/CFI and it'll help with that quality aspect too

Pay as you go: This is VERY valuable advice! The first school I went to went out of business, (Bay Air) In Saint Pete FL and if you would've paid the full amount your money would've had the same result as throwing it down a hole to never return.

Heck yeah! I flat out refused to take deposits, though I did insist on cash

I advised my students of this as well.

Check the overall condition of the airplanes: I'm not a mechanic but I can look and see if the airplane inside as well as outside has been well kept. If they haven't with oil leaking, (Yes, I have seen that before) then it's time to find another school. Engine outs are rare but they do happen and leaking oil no matter how much can be a future sign of that happening.

Uhh, well many planes will have small leaks that leave a mess but you'll never see on the dipstick, some of the best planes to train in aren't the pretty ones, I'd be interested in talking to the mechanics they use and having them go over that planes logs with me.

Check the instructors log book: But do it because you want to see what it looks like as a student but in reality you are checking his/her hours.

Yeah, if you try to accuse me of lying about my hours I'll walk your ass out of my office before your oversized student flight bag hits the deck.

If you think your CFI is full of it just walk.

Now if you want to look through my log to see what type of flying I've been doing I'll sit down with you and walk through it.

 

[Kelvin]

I found a CFI who has about 16,000 hours and is about 70 years old... So he is not doing this to build time and has been a GREAT instructor. I would look for someone like him that is not going to leave for the airlines.

16000 hours..

RED FLAG...this guy has forgotten more than most of us will ever know...how can he possibly teach anyone?

 

[James331]

Old dude with 16k flying in the local area ain't that impressive.

It's more the story behind the hours IMO