Babar Suleman and his son...

I just saw that on my news feed. Sorry for the loss of your friend Tim. My immediate thoughts were of that young pilot, Jessica Dubroff from California who died several years ago along with her father and CFI when launching from Cheyenne Wyoming. Can't say I'm a fan of these do it the fastest type record attempts with young folks.

A true tragedy for the boys family, friends and school. Very sad.
 
AdamZ said:
I just saw that on my news feed. Sorry for the loss of your friend Tim. My immediate thoughts were of that young pilot, Jessica Dubroff from California who died several years ago along with her father and CFI when launching from Cheyenne Wyoming. Can't say I'm a fan of these do it the fastest type record attempts with young folks.

A true tragedy for the boys family, friends and school. Very sad.
Click to expand...

I don't think this is quite the same as the Jessica Dubroff debacle. She was 7 (and not even really piloting the plane for that matter). This son was 17 and plenty old enough to be doing the trip IMO.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I don't think this is quite the same as the Jessica Dubroff debacle. She was 7 (and not even really piloting the plane for that matter). This son was 17 and plenty old enough to be doing the trip IMO.
Click to expand...

Not suggesting it was the same my thoughts just went to that incident. So sad to lose such a young man who apparently had so much potential.
 
Saw the write up on them in the newspaper when they were taking off from my home town (well, Greenwood is suburb of Indy) to start their trip. Sorry to see this happened.
 
PPC1052 said:
Saw the write up on them in the newspaper when they were taking off from my home town (well, Greenwood is suburb of Indy) to start their trip. Sorry to see this happened.
Click to expand...
The previous time I had lunch at Rick's...a few years ago...Babar was there with us...one of the finest guys you'll ever meet.
 
Last edited:
Very sad. RIP

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk
 
DID NOT KNOW Babar or Haris Suliman, but did follow their blog both on facebook and "flying round the world in 30 days ".As a matter of fact I even wrote to him. (Babar) on my concerns, taking a 17 year old in "a single engine"plane . on such an Oddessy. He replied in a long lengthy explanation on his blog without using my name , even on Pilot of America I put up the question? under "what constitutes pilot in command", all that due to my concerns for the young Haris Suliman, who had just gotten his PPL just a month and half before this journey. I am really saddened and shocked to see this happen may they Rest in peace
 
Last edited:
Welcome to Pilots of America. The loss of the father/son is certainly a tragedy; my condolences go out to the widow and extended family and friends.

Your post is insightful though a bit hard to read. There's only one comma in the entire single paragraph, not a single period to end a thought/start a new thought. If I were speaking it I'd surely be out of breath before getting to the end.

:eek:)
 
Lawreston said:
Welcome to Pilots of America. The loss of the father/son is certainly a tragedy; my condolences go out to the widow and extended family and friends.

Your post is insightful though a bit hard to read. There's only one comma in the entire single paragraph, not a single period to end a thought/start a new thought. If I were speaking it I'd surely be out of breath before getting to the end.

:eek:)
Click to expand...
I guess, like Shakespeare I am bad at punctuation !Cheers :redface:
 
As a father who is a pilot and has a son who is a pilot, I am stunned and saddened. While I never met the two, I can only imagine the bonding between father and son in a common hobby. Such a tragedy.
 
I am sorry to hear of this loss.

A very black time for aviation in general :(
 
I can't say that I knew Babar well, but he used to participate on another forum I frequent, and I did have the pleasure of meeting him at one of Mike Busch's seminars at Indy. He took us to a mid-eastern restaurant where I can't say the food was great but the company was. A true gentleman indeed.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Very sad news... how'd so many of you know Babar??
Click to expand...

He was hard to miss.

Also, he flew all over the place for his business(es), active on beechtalk and attended a couple of fly-ins. Just a very energetic and funny individual.
 
Huge condolences to the OP and anyone else who knew the hapless pilots. I unfortunately do have a bit of a question. The news (admittedly not the most accurate source of information) said they crashed into the sea at night. Forgive me of speaking at all ill of our departed colleagues, but that seems unduly perilous, especially for a freshly minted VFR pilot. I wouldn't attempt it despite my decade of experience (or perhaps because of it).
 
His dad was a very seasoned pilot so it's not like he was doing this alone.

JFK Jr. Syndrome is a definite possibility though, as is contaminated fuel and good old fashioned engine failure.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Very sad news... how'd so many of you know Babar??
Click to expand...

As Norm said, some of us knew him from the Cessna Pilots Society board. I met and spoke with Babar a hand-full of times at various regional fly-ins. He was extremely intelligent, with numerous degrees, and a hoot to be around. His stories of his childhood days at all-boys schools in Pakistan were hilarious (but in a sad, third-world, sort of way).

He used to frequent there, as did I, until one of the extreme right-wing, Vietnam vet, ex-marines ran him off a few years back during the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

It was a loss for that board. (Babar's leaving, definitely not mine).
 
timwinters said:
His dad was a very seasoned pilot so it's not like he was doing this alone.

JFK Jr. Syndrome is a definite possibility though, as is contaminated fuel and good old fashioned engine failure.
Click to expand...

The most obvious culprit for long flights like this over the ocean is that the plane was overloaded when it took off.

Hate to say it but when I see these record attempts by youngsters (even if they have an adult with them) I cringe because it is unfortunately more likely to end in grief.

Condolences to friends and families of the victims.
 
I think they are dopey records but have no problem with 'kids' chasing them. We used to send 17 year olds off to war no reason they can't fly around in little airplanes. The 16 year olds going round the world alone in sailboats seems more treacherous.
vince said:
The most obvious culprit for long flights like this over the ocean is that the plane was overloaded when it took off.

Hate to say it but when I see these record attempts by youngsters (even if they have an adult with them) I cringe because it is unfortunately more likely to end in grief.

Condolences to friends and families of the victims.
Click to expand...
 
steingar said:
Huge condolences to the OP and anyone else who knew the hapless pilots. I unfortunately do have a bit of a question. The news (admittedly not the most accurate source of information) said they crashed into the sea at night. Forgive me of speaking at all ill of our departed colleagues, but that seems unduly perilous, especially for a freshly minted VFR pilot. I wouldn't attempt it despite my decade of experience (or perhaps because of it).
Click to expand...

Babar had plenty of IFR time in a saratoga and baron.
 
ClimbnSink said:
We used to send 17 year olds off to war no reason they can't fly around in little airplanes.
Click to expand...

I knew you'd be around to comment on this sooner or later and I agree completely. Especially when it's a father & son sharing a mutual passion.

Hell, I was out driving around on county roads drinking beer all night long when I was 17.

Which is more dangerous? Which is a more worthwhile pursuit?
 
One report said they were about 20 miles off the airport, and one mile from the nearest land. I'd imagine is was dark as a mine shaft. One would think a fuel issue of some sort, switching, quality, contamination??

I though I read where it was about a 15 hour flight to Hawaii, extra tanks.
 
timwinters said:
I knew you'd be around to comment on this sooner or later and I agree completely. Especially when it's a father & son sharing a mutual passion.

Hell, I was out driving around on county roads drinking beer all night long when I was 17.

Which is more dangerous? Which is a more worthwhile pursuit?
Click to expand...

Flying a single engine plane over the ocean is more dangerous. Worst thing that could have happened to you is you end up in the corn and sleep it off. :nono:
 
sourdough44 said:
One report said they were about 20 miles off the airport, and one mile from the nearest land. I'd imagine is was dark as a mine shaft. One would think a fuel issue of some sort, switching, quality, contamination??

I though I read where it was about a 15 hour flight to Hawaii, extra tanks.
Click to expand...

According to one news report, their next stop was to be on Kiribati which is about halfway between Samoa and Hawaii.
 
I'm saddened to read what we've become as a country. After the initial condolences were out of the way, the prevailing attitude both here and over at AOPA quickly become "no common sense", "too dangerous" and "another Jessica Dubroff".

It seems as if most want to stay in bed with their head tucked under the blanket. And I have to think that those who built this country and explored it for the first time are rolling in their graves at what we've become.

This was a flight attempted by two legal adults, both were pilots, one freshly minted but the other with hours likely measured in the thousands and who had both his twin & instrument ratings. He was also an extremely intelligent guy---a nuclear engineer---who I doubt lacked "common sense" and who likely knew how to perform a simple weight and balance. But I guess time will tell.

Additionally, to compare this situation to that of a 7 year-old (Jessica Dubroff) as they are over at AOPA is ridiculous.

And to think that PoA and AOPA are communities of aviators---those who are supposed to be the most adventurous of the lot---wow, if these "adventurous aviators" are so nanny-state leaning and risk averse then this country is doomed.

I'm all for there being reasonable and common sense regulations to keep people from killing others (like 70 y/o men doing aerobatics and/or high performance maneuvers in 70 y/o airplanes within a few dozen feet of spectators), but everyone should be free...and more importantly encouraged...to pursue whatever adventurous/hazardous hobby they fancy without the peanut gallery accusing them of having no common sense.

I'm going flying now and I might even buzz a couple of my farms! Who knows, you might just read about it tomorrow. ;)
 
Last edited:
timwinters said:
I'm saddened to read what we've become as a country. After the initial condolences were out of the way, the prevailing attitude both here and over at AOPA quickly become "no common sense", "too dangerous" and "another Jessica Dubroff".
Click to expand...

Tim, again my sincerest condolences for the loss you and your aviation community have suffered. I didn't know this fellow or his son but they sound like real assets to their community.

My own comments come in a very different context. What induces a low time pilot to take off at night over water? His father should certainly have known better, unless he was acting as PIC. How effective any of us would be from the right seat in darkness I don't know. For myself, I can say almost utterly ineffective.

Thus what induced them to make the ill-fated flight? My guess would be go-fever. With a self-imposed 30-day goal the pressure to keep moving must have been enormous.

Now, I want to fly to Oshkosh this weekend. Problem is, the forecasts say the weather is going to turn to crap in my area. This incident is an object lesson for me. I had thoughts of taking off tomorrow night, before the wx comes down. But my own night time currency is not what I like, and I really don't want to do it.

So I'm going to be watching the wx carefully this weekend. But again this incident is going to temper my own go-fever. I wish something had tempered theirs.

I honestly don't want to demean your friend or speak ill of the dead. But if we don't learn from them they will have died in vain.
 
timwinters said:
This was a flight attempted by two legal adults, both were pilots, one freshly minted but the other with hours likely measured in the thousands and who had both his twin & instrument ratings. He was also an extremely intelligent guy---a nuclear engineer---who I doubt lacked "common sense" and who likely knew how to perform a simple weight and balance.
Click to expand...

Well... I know plenty engineers who have no commonsense. Judging by the length of flight he was about to do, they must have had ferry tanks and a ferry permit to fly overweight. Add to that a little bit of getting too sure of themselves and pushing the envelope with taking some extra weight (gifts from all those fine places they were visiting) and I can definitely imagine a situation where they take off, into the darkness (which ain't terribly smart), and experience a truly awful climb rate. No problem, they can just mush along low and as they burn off fuel try to climb higher? Well at night who knows what weather they run into and if they were too low and heavy and in the dark I can definitely imagine an extremely low time pilot and non CFI in the right seat (who is a nuclear engineer but not necessarily a superb pilot) could get into trouble.

I am sorry for their loss to their families and to their friends. But look at what we know. It was dumb what they did just based on the information we have. Predictable. Another poster here even called it. He was right.
 
steingar said:
Huge condolences to the OP and anyone else who knew the hapless pilots. I unfortunately do have a bit of a question. The news (admittedly not the most accurate source of information) said they crashed into the sea at night. Forgive me of speaking at all ill of our departed colleagues, but that seems unduly perilous, especially for a freshly minted VFR pilot. I wouldn't attempt it despite my decade of experience (or perhaps because of it).
Click to expand...

Dad(Babar) wrote on his wonderful blogs( he seemed to be a GR8 story teller ) that young Haris was freshly minted IFR rated, all this in sixteen weeks before they started their journey. I followed their journey through their facebook and Blog , Babar had carefully planed this trip; including both son and father took survival training in Seattle ,in case they had to ditch. I suspect it may have been contaminated fuel or engine trouble . I also suspect(speculating now ) the truttle-pac tanks may caused a Weight and Balance issue, most ferry pilots, young men, like Matt Guthmiller and Jack Weigand flying this route used aluminum tanks which are far more safer .
 
timwinters said:
I'm saddened to read what we've become as a country. After the initial condolences were out of the way, the prevailing attitude both here and over at AOPA quickly become "no common sense", "too dangerous" and "another Jessica Dubroff".

It seems as if most want to stay in bed with their head tucked under the blanket. And I have to think that those who built this country and explored it for the first time are rolling in their graves at what we've become.

This was a flight attempted by two legal adults, both were pilots, one freshly minted but the other with hours likely measured in the thousands and who had both his twin & instrument ratings. He was also an extremely intelligent guy---a nuclear engineer---who I doubt lacked "common sense" and who likely knew how to perform a simple weight and balance. But I guess time will tell.

Additionally, to compare this situation to that of a 7 year-old (Jessica Dubroff) as they are over at AOPA is ridiculous.

And to think that PoA and AOPA are communities of aviators---those who are supposed to be the most adventurous of the lot---wow, if these "adventurous aviators" are so nanny-state leaning and risk averse then this country is doomed.

I'm all for there being reasonable and common sense regulations to keep people from killing others (like 70 y/o men doing aerobatics and/or high performance maneuvers in 70 y/o airplanes within a few dozen feet of spectators), but everyone should be free...and more importantly encouraged...to pursue whatever adventurous/hazardous hobby they fancy without the peanut gallery accusing them of having no common sense.

I'm going flying now and I might even buzz a couple of my farms! Who knows, you might just read about it tomorrow. ;)
Click to expand...
I agree, I was critical abt this journey risking "two" people in a single engine plane and even wrote to him about this on his blog ! Read his blogs - he gives wonderful explanations on his preparedness "with a mind set to ditch" if necessary Haris(son) was IFR rated . his check ride, according to his father lasted 11 hours ! they were also doing this for a cause, to support an education program !
 
vince said:
Well... I know plenty engineers who have no commonsense. Judging by the length of flight he was about to do, they must have had ferry tanks and a ferry permit to fly overweight. Add to that a little bit of getting too sure of themselves and pushing the envelope with taking some extra weight (gifts from all those fine places they were visiting) and I can definitely imagine a situation where they take off, into the darkness (which ain't terribly smart), and experience a truly awful climb rate. No problem, they can just mush along low and as they burn off fuel try to climb higher? Well at night who knows what weather they run into and if they were too low and heavy and in the dark I can definitely imagine an extremely low time pilot and non CFI in the right seat (who is a nuclear engineer but not necessarily a superb pilot) could get into trouble.



I am sorry for their loss to their families and to their friends. But look at what we know. It was dumb what they did just based on the information we have. Predictable. Another poster here even called it. He was right.
Click to expand...

Did you even bother to read my post about landing at Kiribati?
 
Norman said:
Did you even bother to read my post about landing at Kiribati?
Click to expand...

There are other media reports that say they were flying to Honolulu. Is your's more authoritative?
 
vince said:
Well... I know plenty engineers who have no commonsense. Judging by the length of flight he was about to do, they must have had ferry tanks and a ferry permit to fly overweight. Add to that a little bit of getting too sure of themselves and pushing the envelope with taking some extra weight (gifts from all those fine places they were visiting) and I can definitely imagine a situation where they take off, into the darkness (which ain't terribly smart), and experience a truly awful climb rate. No problem, they can just mush along low and as they burn off fuel try to climb higher? Well at night who knows what weather they run into and if they were too low and heavy and in the dark I can definitely imagine an extremely low time pilot and non CFI in the right seat (who is a nuclear engineer but not necessarily a superb pilot) could get into trouble.

I am sorry for their loss to their families and to their friends. But look at what we know. It was dumb what they did just based on the information we have. Predictable. Another poster here even called it. He was right.
Click to expand...
Give me a Break ! The father was a superb Pilot, in 2008 he had engine out and landed his plane right on the highway between two cars ! without any damage to the plane or people ! google CNN and you will find a video on it !
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top