B56TC

Is this the elusive LearBaron?

380hp per side turbo charged. There's a pic of one on BT flying around at 32,000' with contrails behind it. Not sure what a LearBaron is and won't suffer though an xtranormal video to find out, but the B56TC is probably close to it.
 
What were the engine times?
 
I got a few hundred hours in that very airplane 35 years ago. It was a hoot to fly, but there is a reason why those airframes have such low total times. (It involves fuel flows and the cost of 100LL. :yikes: )
 
Panel looks like something from National Geographic.
 
It's been on the market for about 18 months. I wonder what it's going to cost the next owner to overhaul both those engines?
 
It's been on the market for about 18 months. I wonder what it's going to cost the next owner to overhaul both those engines?

I looked at one 20 some years ago that was a lien sale abandoned plane. $44k a piece for the engines and nearly $20k for the props.:eek: I passed and bought a Travel Air with turbos instead.
 
Those planes should be converted to either GTISO-520s or TIO-540-J2BDs. Probably end up with better performance and actually have engines that are supported.

Bad panel, engines are timed out or close to it (those engines were ridiculously low TBO, and rarely made it). They'll be lucky to get $50k. Not bad if you wanted to buy one and totally redo it from the top down.
 
Those planes should be converted to either GTISO-520s or TIO-540-J2BDs. Probably end up with better performance and actually have engines that are supported.

Bad panel, engines are timed out or close to it (those engines were ridiculously low TBO, and rarely made it). They'll be lucky to get $50k. Not bad if you wanted to buy one and totally redo it from the top down.
The problem is, of course, economics. Sure it COULD be done, but by the time you developed and got the STC approved. the price would be "significant". Add to that the cost of two sets of everything you needed "firewall forward" and you'd end up with something that costs more than what you would have to pay to get a factory built 285 hp Baron. At this stage of the game, it's not going to happen. I'm sure that airplane is going to end up donating parts once those engines are finished.

I've got a question... How much would an aircraft salvage yard pay for something like that? IMHO, that's all that particular Baron 56TC is worth now.
 
Those planes should be converted to either GTISO-520s or TIO-540-J2BDs. Probably end up with better performance and actually have engines that are supported.

Bad panel, engines are timed out or close to it (those engines were ridiculously low TBO, and rarely made it). They'll be lucky to get $50k. Not bad if you wanted to buy one and totally redo it from the top down.

I love the idea of this airplane, the same way I loved a bad-azz GTO when I was growing up, or a Caddy CTS-V now. Except, the CTS-V is, besides being faster than stankonia, a pretty good car.

Fact is, though, I do not think anyone other than an A&P could buy this plane and make it work out financially.

You could play the odds- maybe with good treatment, the engines could have another 500 hours in 'em. Buy the plane, figure twenty grand in avionics to allow it to join the current century (just barely), pray that the bladders are all ok, and (if you want to fly high and far a lot) fly it. But, better have a puddle of money ready in case the plane gets hungry or lonely.
 
I think somene on BT said 96GPH during the climb. :hairraise:

Yes, but you do not spend much time in climb in a plane like this....Probably upwards of 2500 fpm all the way up.

I get 1300-1500 fpm on my single turbo.

So if you are flying FL20 you are there in 8-9 minutes.
 
Those planes should be converted to either GTISO-520s or TIO-540-J2BDs. Probably end up with better performance and actually have engines that are supported.

Bad panel, engines are timed out or close to it (those engines were ridiculously low TBO, and rarely made it). They'll be lucky to get $50k. Not bad if you wanted to buy one and totally redo it from the top down.

I seem to remember someone saying to put an IO550 with TAT's on them.

Or maybe that was the A36TC.

TC's have the longer thin wing which does better at FL's.
 
Run out engines, run out avionics, RED interior.
I think the key word here is RUN followed by AWAY.:D
 
Run out engines, run out avionics, RED interior.
I think the key word here is RUN followed by AWAY.:D

Wasn't thinking of buying it, unless you want to supply the fuel and maintain it for me :D

I can only imagine that a max rate take-off is impressive, given the light non-pressurized airframe.

I think those engines are orphaned, IIRC they're the same ones the Duke has.
 
Wasn't thinking of buying it, unless you want to supply the fuel and maintain it for me :D

I can only imagine that a max rate take-off is impressive, given the light non-pressurized airframe.

I think those engines are orphaned, IIRC they're the same ones the Duke has.

Oh, I bet it's a blast to fly! One or two on board, 50 gallons of gas and that thing would climb out like a jet!! :D:D
 
We sold that very airplane and replaced it with a brand new Seneca II. Although not as fast, the Seneca was a whole lot easier to live with. (Think Lamborghini vs. Toyota Camry) Compared to the B55 that I also flew from time-to-time back then, if you wanted to get any meaningful speed increase you had to take it up and suck on oxygen. The novelty of doing that wore off real fast. On the plus side, it flew and handled like a Baron and ATC was always calling us a King Air.
 
Dad was sales manager for a Beech dealer when I was a kid- he had a 56TC I suspect was making the rounds as a factory demo for a short time since there wasn't any practical reason for them to have it in inventory. My ride was a short flight from GSO to INT- acceleration was akin to a dragster on the takeoff roll- wont ever forget that.
 
The problem is, of course, economics. Sure it COULD be done, but by the time you developed and got the STC approved. the price would be "significant". Add to that the cost of two sets of everything you needed "firewall forward" and you'd end up with something that costs more than what you would have to pay to get a factory built 285 hp Baron. At this stage of the game, it's not going to happen. I'm sure that airplane is going to end up donating parts once those engines are finished.

I'm extremely aware of what it takes to certify something and why it makes no sense to do. My point is that if you did that, you'd end up with a technically superior solution that would give you equal or greater performance and also be something you could support.

Truthfully, I think that this sort of overpowered piston airplane is really what GA needs more of. To get that sort of performance, you need to go turbine and costs go up exponentially. But maybe I'm wrong in that theory and most people who have a need for a plane like that can afford turbine.

I've got a question... How much would an aircraft salvage yard pay for something like that? IMHO, that's all that particular Baron 56TC is worth now.
They'd probably pay somewhere in the range of $30-40k. And yes, that's probably about all it's worth right now. Sad. :(
 
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I love the idea of this airplane, the same way I loved a bad-azz GTO when I was growing up, or a Caddy CTS-V now. Except, the CTS-V is, besides being faster than stankonia, a pretty good car.

Fact is, though, I do not think anyone other than an A&P could buy this plane and make it work out financially.

You could play the odds- maybe with good treatment, the engines could have another 500 hours in 'em. Buy the plane, figure twenty grand in avionics to allow it to join the current century (just barely), pray that the bladders are all ok, and (if you want to fly high and far a lot) fly it. But, better have a puddle of money ready in case the plane gets hungry or lonely.

Really that plane needs closer to $50k for a very nice avionics overhaul. For $25k you could probably do an Aspen and a 430W, and that'd give you a decent panel.

The engines are a real uncertainty here. Depending on when the most recent top was and if there's any corrosion in the bottom end, you might be able to get a few more years out of the engines before you have to do something with them. It also depends on how you run them and how the previous owners ran them. I'd agree this plane would be best suited for an A&P who can afford the fuel bill and can do all the work himself. Would make for a nice personal airplane.

I seem to remember someone saying to put an IO550 with TAT's on them.

Or maybe that was the A36TC.

TC's have the longer thin wing which does better at FL's.

The A36s can be had with a turbo'd IO-550 from TAT. When I was down there a couple of years ago they were working on a 55 Baron with the same setup that looked like it'd be a real screamer when finished. They claimed that with the intercoolers it'd end up being pretty similar to a 56TC at altitude in performance.
 
I'm extremely aware of what it takes to certify something and why it makes no sense to do. My point is that if you did that, you'd end up with a technically superior solution that would give you equal or greater performance and also be something you could support.

Truthfully, I think that this sort of overpowered piston airplane is really what GA needs more of. To get that sort of performance, you need to go turbine and costs go up exponentially. But maybe I'm wrong in that theory and most people who have a need for a plane like that can afford turbine.

They'd probably pay somewhere in the range of $30-40k. And yes, that's probably about all it's worth right now. Sad. :(

No what you'd end up with is nothing more than the 46 year old equivalent of another 46 year old D/E55 Baron. Check the going rates for those airplanes. By now several of them have had the upgrades. The problem is you'd still have $150K to $200K total investment into a $100K airplane. Hardly the formula for ongoing financial success. Some other guys learned this the hard way with the Lear 25. They spent the money on an STC to put Williams turbofans on it. It gave the airplane great performance and range. The only problem was, when all was said and done, you could buy a much newer Lear 35 for less money. Oh well, it was a nice try.
 
No what you'd end up with is nothing more than the 46 year old equivalent of another 46 year old D/E55 Baron. Check the going rates for those airplanes. By now several of them have had the upgrades. The problem is you'd still have $150K to $200K total investment into a $100K airplane. Hardly the formula for ongoing financial success. Some other guys learned this the hard way with the Lear 25. They spent the money on an STC to put Williams turbofans on it. It gave the airplane great performance and range. The only problem was, when all was said and done, you could buy a much newer Lear 35 for less money. Oh well, it was a nice try.

The turbine upgrades have made no sense, and as I pointed out the issue is cost. So we're in agreement on needing to make the cost aspect meet appropriate numbers. The RAM upgrades have been very popular, and looking at a RAM T310R it does make a very nice package. The trick is being able to either use the core engine with the plane or make a deal with the manufacturers that can make the price point reasonable.

What is defined as reasonable depends on the plane. It also depends on the mission you're going after. Turbine STCs are pretty much always a money loser and so are piston STCs wiout being able to use the base engine as a core.
 
Get good at flying with only one engine ,burn half as much fuel,go twice as far, and when that engine finally quits you have another one ready to go.:goofy::goofy:
 
The turbine upgrades have made no sense, and as I pointed out the issue is cost. So we're in agreement on needing to make the cost aspect meet appropriate numbers. The RAM upgrades have been very popular, and looking at a RAM T310R it does make a very nice package. The trick is being able to either use the core engine with the plane or make a deal with the manufacturers that can make the price point reasonable.

What is defined as reasonable depends on the plane. It also depends on the mission you're going after. Turbine STCs are pretty much always a money loser and so are piston STCs wiout being able to use the base engine as a core.

There is turbine 340 on Controller, $1,200,000 plus the airframe!!:yikes::lol::lol:
 
There is turbine 340 on Controller, $1,200,000 plus the airframe!!:yikes::lol::lol:

Yeah, while it is a very nice conversion, I think that O&N hit the nail with a sponge on that one. I'll be surprised if they sell many. I'll be even more surprised if Jack Pelton sells any of his 421 conversions.
 
The turbine upgrades have made no sense, and as I pointed out the issue is cost. So we're in agreement on needing to make the cost aspect meet appropriate numbers. The RAM upgrades have been very popular, and looking at a RAM T310R it does make a very nice package. The trick is being able to either use the core engine with the plane or make a deal with the manufacturers that can make the price point reasonable.

What is defined as reasonable depends on the plane. It also depends on the mission you're going after. Turbine STCs are pretty much always a money loser and so are piston STCs wiout being able to use the base engine as a core.
There have only been a few real successful general Aviation engine conversion STCs. Probably the most successful was the one that installed Garrett TFE731s on the Falcon 20. A very high percentage of the fleet removed the old GE CF700 engines and installed the Garretts. Those that weren't retrofitted have pretty much been retired fro the fleet. The converted airplanes are still very viable aircraft. Another success has been the P&W PT-6 Blackhawk conversions. They make a lot of economic sense as well. When it comes to pistons, the two big success stories are Riley and RAM. Over the years I've had a chance to fly some amazing aircraft that never made it in the marketplace. The wildest one was the Cessna 421 with Lycoming turboprop engines. When I flew that with the Riley test pilot the engines were cranking out just under 800 hp each. We were light and with 1600 hp, that 421B would climb practically vertical. (Or so it seemed.:D) I don't think they ever converted more than just a handful of airframes.
 
Get good at flying with only one engine, burn half as much fuel, go twice as far, and when that engine finally quits you have another one ready to go.:goofy::goofy:
Actually that's not too far fetched...

I had a buddy who flew an Aztec C. One afternoon we were deadheading back to Las Vegas and I was overtaking him in the Baron 56TC. For grins, I shut one engine down and pulled up along side him with the one engine feathered. I was also able to pull away (barely) from him. But what do you expect with an airplane that has 20 hp more than double what the original airframe had - hanging on each wing. (180 hp vs. 380 hp) :D
 
There have only been a few real successful general Aviation engine conversion STCs. Probably the most successful was the one that installed Garrett TFE731s on the Falcon 20. A very high percentage of the fleet removed the old GE CF700 engines and installed the Garretts. Those that weren't retrofitted have pretty much been retired fro the fleet. The converted airplanes are still very viable aircraft. Another success has been the P&W PT-6 Blackhawk conversions. They make a lot of economic sense as well. When it comes to pistons, the two big success stories are Riley and RAM. Over the years I've had a chance to fly some amazing aircraft that never made it in the marketplace. The wildest one was the Cessna 421 with Lycoming turboprop engines. When I flew that with the Riley test pilot the engines were cranking out just under 800 hp each. We were light and with 1600 hp, that 421B would climb practically vertical. (Or so it seemed.:D) I don't think they ever converted more than just a handful of airframes.

Colemill is another success story with the Panther Navajos and Executive 310s. We fly one of the latter and it is a great conversion. Also the multitude of 172s converted to O-360s and the PPonk 182/180s, and the 520 - 550 STCs you see in Bonanzas and the like.

As I said, the key in the piston world comes down to being able to use the core engine for something besides a boat anchor. For the successful piston conversions, the commonality you see is being able to reuse the core. Continental will accept 470 cores for Colemill, as will Lycoming, etc. Since Lycoming doesn't care about the 541s and there are few Dukes and 56TCs out there, the only way you'd be able to get that to work is if Lycoming decided they just wanted to make sure all 541s were wiped out from the face of the earth and sell a couple of J2BDs in the process.
 
Those planes should be converted to either GTISO-520s or TIO-540-J2BDs. Probably end up with better performance and actually have engines that are supported.

Out of curiousity, how does removing 380HP and replacing with a 375 or 350hp variant improve performance?

No question on the support angle. Even if TIO-541s grew on trees, I would soon grow tired of the snickerings of my fellow pilots.

I always thought the efficiency of these and the Duke installation was poor from low ground clearance -- resulting in a stubby little prop turning at 2900RPM.

I still lust for one of these, though. I have access to fuel, engine OH, and maintenance at cost, and it STILL scares the bejeesus out of me. I've tried to arrange a 3-way partnership in one a few times, as a "when you absolutely, positively, have to get to Vegas in 35 minutes" 2nd plane... no takers yet. They're all smarter than I am :D
 
Out of curiousity, how does removing 380HP and replacing with a 375 or 350hp variant improve performance?

Few reasons. First off, that 380 HP rating was a bit optimistic. Meanwhile, the J2BDs tend to be strong performers. Add a bit one side, subtract it from the other, and...

For GTSIO-520s, you have the addition of an intercooler. This gets to be a big deal when you get up to the flight levels, where a non-intercooled engine is running some very high pressure ratios through the turbo and your induction air temperatures hit thermonuclear levels. So at altitude, you'd likely see an improvement.

No question on the support angle. Even if TIO-541s grew on trees, I would soon grow tired of the snickerings of my fellow pilots.

If they had the support they needed, I think they would be just fine. When they were built, the intent was the 541 to replace the 540, it just didn't work out that way. Teething problems and general poor performance/unpopularity of the Duke and P-Navajo meant that the things were quickly orphaned.

I always thought the efficiency of these and the Duke installation was poor from low ground clearance -- resulting in a stubby little prop turning at 2900RPM.

The engine was designed to spin fast, and engines that spin fast need stubby props. This does hurt propeller efficiency, and is another part of why you'd likely see equal to better performance from a J2BD or GTSIO install. However there's not a huge amount I'd expect you to gain there, probably mostly in takeoff and climb performance.

I never quite understood why they went with straight TIO-541s given the high-revving design of the engine. To me, it would've made much more sense to only stick to the TIGO-541s. For one, the 425-450 HP the TIGOs made would've made the Duke a significantly better performer, and the lower prop RPM would've made things much quieter and probably more popular. Of course, the geared engines had their issues, too.

I still lust for one of these, though. I have access to fuel, engine OH, and maintenance at cost, and it STILL scares the bejeesus out of me. I've tried to arrange a 3-way partnership in one a few times, as a "when you absolutely, positively, have to get to Vegas in 35 minutes" 2nd plane... no takers yet. They're all smarter than I am :D

We probably fall into one of the few groups that a 56TC would actually make sense for, given that the size and configuration of a Baron/310/Aztec is perfect for our mission and we do trips long enough that we can use the extra speed and would fly at the higher altitudes. If I wrecked the 310 tomorrow and we had to think about a replacement, we might consider it. I don't like the cramped front seat of a Baron, I really like the wing lockers on the 310, no pressurization, etc. So we'd probably end up looking at a 340-421, Aerostar, etc. Or maybe just get a RAM T310R and have pretty much the same performance with engines that are supported, a better interior, etc.

In the mean time, we'll just stick to flying the airplane that we have that fits our mission well, represents a good price point for us, and that is in great condition.
 
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