Average pay for SWA $300k by 2020

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by dans2992, Aug 31, 2016.

  1. Art VanDelay

    Art VanDelay Pattern Altitude

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    Perhaps but not nearly as much as UAV operators. Notice how I said operator and not pilot.....(insert stupid emoticon here).
     
  2. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    While we're at it, favorite Engineer quote: "I understand that aerospace documentation can be hard to understand just because Engineers had written them... and Engineers are generally not good writers." LOL
     
  3. Richman67

    Richman67 Pre-Flight

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    These articles are often comically biased towards the best case scenario.

    Probably the best way to calculate an annual income is to take the hourly rate, and multiply it by 1000. That will put you in a reasonable ballpark for a pilot who occasionally picks up an extra trip. 900 is more accurate for someone who goes to work, flies their trip and goes home with minimal futzing.

    All of this pales in comparison to the salary, benefits and work rules as they used to exist prior to 2004. Only now are pay rates starting to get to where they were 15 years ago, and that's on a NON-inflation adjusted basis.

    Most, if not all majors had a defined benefit retirement plan, that usually paid out 60% of your final earnings average after a 25 year career retiring at 60. Those plans have all been terminated or frozen, replaced by defined contribution plans that are in no way equivalent.

    Most health insurance was paid. Zero cost to the pilot.

    No denying it. In 2000, the job at a major was a good deal. There were a LOT more majors and cargo operators, and the pathway to get there more assured without the risk or cost. Zero to hero cost about $15k all in, including living expenses. 2 years as a CFI, 1 year flying freight, 3-5 years at a regional, and you were there at a major at 28-30 if you were a reasonable stick and kept your nose clean.

    Now it's a just an OK deal, but its far more expensive, much less assured, and the dwell period at the regionals much, much longer. With the industry consolidation, there are far fewer opportunities.

    The collapse of the "good deal" at the majors has rippled through the entire industry. I won't say that it caused a partial collapse in GA, but certainly kids can see the writing on the wall. Without people cycling through the pipeline, the regionals can't staff. Their model has always been built around relatively inexpensive training and experience building at the GA level. Pilots were willing to deal with the hassle and low pay because the tenure would be relatively brief. Now that that is not the case, and there is a lack of pilots willing to do it for that compensation level, and that's no surprise

    Without career track pilots, that puts a serious damper on the flight school circuit.

    Of course there are ancillary problems in the industry...lots of them, and probably a good dose of generational issues. None of those help.

    Richman
     
  4. CC268

    CC268 Final Approach

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    The thing is all those guys and yourself are probably a lot smarter than I am. Idk - I worked my butt off in engineering school and I did quite well...but I'm not one of these people who is just naturally brilliant.
     
  5. Busflyer

    Busflyer Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Not true. FedEx, UPS, and Alaska have defined benefit plans.
     
  6. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    Meat puppets huh? What is the point of an automated society if you're unwilling to cover the cost of living of the idle? Otherwise its a tomato tomMAto kinda thing. You gotta incur the cost either way. Humans may be slow, but theyrr not gonna die off without making it hard for the winners of the automation race to enjoy their spoils. Can't have the cake and eat it too I'm afraid, your clear contempt for human beings notwithstanding. I'm with @Sluggo63 on this one. My bet is on us cumbersome weak and slow meat puppets will continue to fly airliners by the time you're compost.
     
  7. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    Nah. One is brilliant. Most are just persistent as hell. Including me. Stubbornly so. "This thing is going to work if it kills me..." Ha.
     
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  8. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Don't all engineers make $200k or more?
     
  9. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    My "waste and recycling management engineer" does. ;)
     
  10. MD11Pilot

    MD11Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    As any of the airline types here can tell you, what is reported is FAR from reality.
    I can give you my hourly rate, my schedule and my new contract and 99% of you would not be able to tell me what my next paycheck will be. My best friend has been at United for thirty years and I have been at my cargo company thirty years...his hourly was very slightly more than mine but my W2 is always about 30 grand higher and I do NOT fly extra. The devil is in the finely worded details.

    There are so many variables that make a look from the outside look one way but in reality is exactly opposite. Truth. At my company, we have first officers making 300 plus...and No, it is not Fed Ex.
     
  11. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    It's all in the route, what can Brown do for you? But if it is Brown, I dont think they've operated their own aircraft 30 years yet... close.
     
  12. weirdjim

    weirdjim Ejection Handle Pulled

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    You are about -6dB in money power off. Of course, you have to be an engineer to know what that means.:cheerswine:
     
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  13. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Sure.
    -6dB is half.
    No Engineer, but I do Ultrasonic Inspection.
    After calibration I add 12dB, and add another 6dB for paint, what's that for Mr Engineer?
     
  14. weirdjim

    weirdjim Ejection Handle Pulled

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    In power, 3 dB is half, 6 dB is quarter.

    Jim
     
  15. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

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    What is this dB stuff you guys speak of?
     
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  16. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    In ultrasonic testing it denotes signal amplification (called "gain") as seen on CRT or "A" scan. A 6db increase in gain causes a signal to double, -6db reduces a signal by 1/2. Which, I'm sure was developed by Engineers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
  17. Cavorter

    Cavorter Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Apparently an ultrasonic engineer is only half an engineer.
     
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  18. avongil

    avongil Pre-takeoff checklist

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    at about the 120K point on the east coast engineering turns to Engineering Management at every place I have seen. So if you want to be in the thick of it without the hassle of the people factor you will have to stay around there. I don't really find anything wrong with that. but hey flying airliners for double that does not sound too shabby at all!
     
  19. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    LOL, maybe.
     
  20. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Where I come from "amplification" pertains to power.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
  21. weirdjim

    weirdjim Ejection Handle Pulled

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    When old man Bell was inventing the telephone, he needed some way of quickly and efficiently measuring the "loudness" of his telephone signal. He picked a hundred people at random and asked them to tell when the sound apparently doubled in volume. He called the average of that the "Bell" (shy person that he was). When we got into the fine grain of measurement, the Bell was WAY too big to express our terms, so we took one-tenth of a Bell which is a deci-Bell. We later dropped the last "l" and it came out decibel, which we abbrvt dB.

    When we started to apply the mathematics to it, we came up with two expressions, one for voltage and one for power. Since the equation for power (power = voltage SQUARED divided by resistance) it turns out that when you do the equations for decibel, you find that the ratio of voltage dB to power dB is exactly two to one.

    Another way of saying this is that doubling (or halving) the power results in a change of 3 dB and doubling (or halving) the voltage results in a change of 6 dB.

    When I said the salary power (POWER, remember) of an average engineer was -6 dB of a $300k salary, I was saying that the average engineer was making half of half of $300k, or $75k.

    Jim
     
  22. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Yeah, but since "Engineers are generally not good writers"... when you wrote:
    Pertaining to this:
    It could be taken differently.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
  23. deonb

    deonb Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    There are 2 types of Engineering orgs:

    a) Those who promote their best Engineers to managers, because they need to do that to justify paying them more.
    b) Those who promote their worst Engineers to managers, since that's where they can do the least damage.

    I've worked in both but I prefer (b). Working with incompetent managers is amusing. Working with incompetent engineers is depressing.
     
  24. KSCessnaDriver

    KSCessnaDriver Pattern Altitude

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    Heck, with all the trading, swapping and picking up I do, half the time I can't really tell for sure what my next pay check will be.
     
  25. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Damn, I may have found a new favorite Engineer's qoute.
     
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  26. Somedudeintn

    Somedudeintn Cleared for Takeoff

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    I'd agree with this. I'd say top out for 90% of the strictly engineers in my area is about 120k.
     
  27. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    You don't know how good that makes this lowly A&P feel.
     
  28. nauga

    nauga Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Discussing a logarithmic scale in this thread is overkill when a 6" (linear) ruler is more than sufficient.

    While statistics and I disagree with your numbers for the generic 'engineer' (you're ~20K+ low according to the BLS, AIAA, and ASME for starters, even farther off by IEEE), what's the average salary for the generic 'pilot'? I'll even spot you 'commercial pilot'.

    Nauga,
    subverting the dominant paradigm
     
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  29. Fuz16

    Fuz16 Filing Flight Plan

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    I am seeking advice in preparing to fly for a second career. I can retire in two years (from an education career) at the age of 47 with a defined benefit of approximately 135k a year. I have my PPl and am instrument rated and current. I am working on my SEL commercial and hope to finish my MEL commercial w/instrument privileges by Christmas. I have contimplated getting my CFI and building hours over the next two years to prepare for a second career. I am not sure if I want to spend 5-8 years at the regionals to make it to the majors, I believe the corporate/charter work is more appealing. I do love to fly and would enjoy a second career in aviation. Any advice???
     
  30. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Pilots should at least make more than a refuge waste engineer. :yes::ohsnap:
     
  31. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    He works a lot harder than most pilots.
     
  32. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Work smarter, not harder.
     
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  33. KSCessnaDriver

    KSCessnaDriver Pattern Altitude

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    MMMTO (Max Money, Max time off) is what I look for.
     
  34. Rex Kramer

    Rex Kramer Line Up and Wait

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    What he said. Most money for the most days off. It's hard to beat this gig. Knock on wood it will continue.
     
  35. nauga

    nauga Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Well good luck with that :D QOL and fun, challenging work are weighted as heavily in my equation. Sometimes QOL has taken a back seat to other factors but I've always enjoyed my work. Some of you have enjoyed it too, whether you know it or not. ;)

    Nauga,
    and what he does in the shadows
     
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  36. MD11Pilot

    MD11Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    "It's all in the route, what can Brown do for you? But if it is Brown, I dont think they've operated their own aircraft 30 years yet... close."

    Officially, January 1,1988 but they used contractors for several years prior operating their aircraft for them. You're correct in the close comment. The most I ever flew at a passenger carrier was 950 hours. The most here was 450. Just finished a vacation period from June 25 to Sept 1. Each company is very different. My company uses a 28 day month so I get 13 months of pay and this year I will probably not exceed 300 hours hard time. I won't say what my W2 will be but I am not on welfare.
     
  37. GlennAB1

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    I worked for Orion Air, one of those contractors, in Louisville, back in '84-'85
     
  38. Harold Rutila

    Harold Rutila Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Responding to the original post: This is very unlikely.
     
  39. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    What was it, again?
     
  40. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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