Autos: A family hauler

astanley

astanley

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Andrew Stanley
Jessie and I are in the market for a new (to us) car. We're about to have a baby (4 months away, aiee).

This car will be a) Jessie's daily driver (all errands) and b) our long distance hauler. We make 4+ trips a year to Boston / Maine; minimum one-way distance is 500 miles. The trips tend to be long in duration (2-3 weeks), so we pack a little more stuff (especially for vacations, when items like bicycles come with us). A typical 3 week run to New England fills our Subie to capacity; this is especially true at Christmas and for summer vacation.

We prefer cars that have, for their capacity, good fuel economy. We define good as 18+ highway, fully laden. Snow-capable all-wheel drive or 4 wheel drive is a must. (Jessie's current platform is a Subaru Outback, which is nearly unstoppable in snow).

Lastly, longevity is a big deal to us. We like cars that, with proper care and maintenance, will last a long time. We've had our Acura for 8 years; our Subaru for 7. Proper care and maintenance can be construed as: all service items replaced on manufacturers schedule, all suggested service intervals adhered to, and during routine maintenance (oil, fluids) the car is comprehensively checked over. Maintenance hogs need not apply (I'm looking at you, Audi and VW).

So, for the parents on the board: what do you do for a vehicle? Our current short-list is:

  • Honda Pilot
  • Acura MDX
  • Subaru Outback
  • GMC Sierra 2500 Denali Duramax

The Honda and Acura are similar, but the Acura has a nicer interior; the Pilot is a bit more rugged. The Outback is there because, with the addition of Yakima roof storage, we'd probably survive. The GMC is spacious, comfortable, can haul all of our crap and then some, and still turn in an 18-20mpg performance on the highway.

Thoughts from the PoA community?

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
Leah's parents have an MDX. The average MPG on the screen is usually ~ 15 mpg. And it requires premium gas only.

If you've got an Outback currently and it will perform your mission I'd stick with it. Leah has a late 90's Outback Impreza which we really like. Seems the Subaru's have a good reputation for reliability.
 
My parents bought a Pilot new back in 2005 (I think). While it is roomy (took our 6 grown family members on 12hr one-way trek with our Christmas stuff), it wasn't the most comfortable ride ever. Both loaded and unloaded, it was a 'jarring' ride similar to my Jeep Wrangler. I believe we got ~22mpg when loaded. Of course, that was in 2005, and I notice that they have changed the styling on them quite a bit - not sure if ride quality has improved or not. It was good on snow, though - my mom has been driving it in Iowa winters since day 1 and she is a good test about how easily something can get stuck. ;)
 
Now that I have 161,000 trouble-free miles on my daily 47-mile-each-way commuter (2005 Honda Accord) and have been in a couple of Honda Pilots, I will suggest you can't go wrong with a Pilot.
 
Andrew:

We've got the 2002 MDX - nicest vehicle I've ever owned. We are at 125k miles.

Plus - VERY roomy; comfortable; great driving seating/view and safety; excellent interstate cruiser; good to work on - access is good for all those "replaceable" items; decent gas mileage for a pretty heavy vehicle - 18MPG around town, 22-25MPG cruising the interstate depending how fast you want to go (see a big drop off above 65MPH); premium is "required" we don't always do that, still runs fine..

Minus - Early models had transmission issues, the dealer fixed it under a service bulletin, didn't do a good job on it so I had it redone on my own nickel - no issues since; sits a bit high, really do need to climb into it if vertically challenged; part time 4-wheel drive - works fine for what we need - think the newer models were full time 4-wheel drive.

The Honda Pilot is essentially the same vehicle, just not so gussied up. For a family, the MDX is a great vehicle although it is pricy. Other than the transmission issue, the Acura shop did good work (loved the loaner car thing). There are others out there that would work as well. The Outback is a vehicle I've always liked, it's just smaller. Our neighbor has two and loves them.

Gary
 
Miata? :D


I have heard good things about the new Jeep Grand Cherokee from a friend who KNOWS cars.
 
We are a few months ahead of you :) and like you have outgrown our older Subaru.

Check out the Hyundai Tucson before you cut off your short list. Great warranty, great reviews, looks good and near top of the class for mileage (beats hybrid SUV mileage in highway driving.) Comes with an AWD option. I plan on test driving one later this week if we can get up to Reno (in Nevada for the holidays.) I've never owned a Hyundai but I know two people who have a sedan and they both love their fit and finish for the price.

It is a bit smaller than a CRV though - maybe too small? Check them out and see.

Edit: look at the Santa Fe too. Bit larger, mileage still near top of class, about 10ft2 more storage in the back, more headroom.
 
Have you look at any of the Mazda line? I've had my '04 Mazda 6 since 2006. Just passed 88,888 miles day before yesterday on my 415 mile weekly commute. Only problem I've had so far was a headlight that was grounding out...$112 and a half day solved that. It's a good size for 1.5 kids, and it's OK with regular unleaded. I get about 26-29 mpg on the V6 (when I'm nice to it).

If you want something bigger, the Mazda CX-7 or CX-9 are very nice. Junelle's dad just got a 2010 CX7; I got to drive it for the weekend when we were back in MSP a couple weeks ago. Very nice ride, lots of tech stuff installed. All-wheel drive is awesome. We were there for the worst snow storm in a decade, and I had no problem getting around. He has the turboed engine which, while very fun, isn't so great on the mileage. From what I understand, the normally aspirated version does much better.

I'm sure the Honda is similar; I've always been impressed with Japanese cars.
 
My brother has a 2004 or 2005 Toyota Sequoia that he makes frequent long trips with his family of 5 (including several this summer between Atlanta and Dallas when Mom was in hospital and eventually passed away). I've been in all the seats on 60-90 minute drives at one time or another and have found it comfortable in both ride and knee space.

No data on the actual mileage, except to report he is okay with it (and he's a real frugal guy with his money and expenses).
 
I also have a Hyundai...the quietest car I've ever owned.
 
As you know, I rent a LOT of vehicles.

Acura and Subaru would be at the top of my list. I'd add a Ford Explorer. I recently rented an Explorer & put 1300 miles on it in a week - I was very pleased by the performance (constant 20-22 MPG, a bit less in the city). I'd add the Explorer to the list. Ford's about the best domestic manudacturer.

I really have nothing good to say about GM - I won't ever buy another one. I love the Honda Civic, but have mixed views on the Pilot.
 
I bought my S.O. one of these... She is happy with it...

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And with 450 hp, matching speed with highway traffic even on short highway entrance ramps is a non-issue...

If you are not limiting yourself to brand new vehicles, you have a few more options... I have a 1995 Jeep Cherokee that I still drive periodically that has 170K miles on it. It's possible that you can find one with even lower miles on them. The old I-6 4.0 liter engine is very dependable.
 
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Not a parent (but my sister is).

Is the Escape too small?
 
Andrew you have riden in my Honda Pilot not sure if you remeber the ride as it was after a few beers and a margharita. Our current Pilot is our second pilot ( lease ) and when the lease is up we will buy that one or another pilot. It is an absolutly fabulous vehicle. The ride is smooth ( Chris must have been traveling over cobble stone roads :wink2:) The inside is much larger than the outside lets on. It is certainly bigger than the MDX even though its the same frame. My neighbor has the MDX and we did a comparison. The MPG is about 17- 19 city 24 highway. We pack it to the gills and then can put stuff on the roof rack. You have also seen the number of people that we get in the car at the flybq.

I have heard good things about the Flex but have no experience.

Between the MDX and the Pilot I pick the Pilot Hands down. With one kid the MDX will suit you fine it is a but more well appointed and more expensive but to be honest I have never really riden in any MDX and said ooooo I wish my pilot was like this.

Can't say much about the Denali as i don't konw anything about it.

The Subaru is unstoppable and is my brother's car his wife has a Honda Odessey but it won't be as roomy as the other vehicles.

Also one word of caution. Once you or Jess sit up high in the SUV for a while you won't want to go back to the low seating.
 
I have an 04 Pilot that has 130K miles on it. We just returned from a 10 day trip with 5 people, two 50 pound dogs and a lizard. No problem. We routinely tow a boat that weighs 1000 pounds more than the thing is supposed to tow. I run synthetic oil through it. It runs like the day it was new. It's been in the shop for non-scheduled maintenance exactly once, at 88,000 miles, when the air conditioner decided to scale its work week back to part time.

Needless to say, I'm pretty happy with it.
 
I have driven Suburbans since l99l. MX is peanuts, dependability has been near-perfect, versatility and hauling flexibility second-to-none. Mileage is slightly less than some others, but I encourage anyone who is considering a car to calculate annual fuel cost differential rather than MPG differential to obtain a more-useful number for budgeting and selection purposes.

QUOTE=wsuffa;661354]As you know, I rent a LOT of vehicles.

Acura and Subaru would be at the top of my list. I'd add a Ford Explorer. I recently rented an Explorer & put 1300 miles on it in a week - I was very pleased by the performance (constant 20-22 MPG, a bit less in the city). I'd add the Explorer to the list. Ford's about the best domestic manudacturer.

I really have nothing good to say about GM - I won't ever buy another one. I love the Honda Civic, but have mixed views on the Pilot.[/QUOTE]
 
Andrew:

If you intend to keep it for a Very Long Time, the diesel Yukon will serve well; my clients in the construction trades routinely run their GM diesel pickups to 500k miles before they sell them (to their laborers, who drive them on).

If you're more interested in car-tech (as opposed to truck), take a look at the Mazda CX-9 - a friend of mine, perhaps the most thorough car shopper I've known, bought one in preference to Lexus, Honda, Acura, etc. It is an amazingly versatile vehicle, very roomy, faster than such a vehicle has a right to be and all-around nice.
 
Ferget about buying a new car. Get a Beech 18 instead. Your wife will thank you when she sees it. Really.
 
Jeep Grand Cherokee. Should do your desired fuel economy (barely). Plenty of room. 4WD. We had about 180,000 miles on our 1997 when we traded it on my wife's 2006 Jeep Commander. Got about 80,000 miles on that now. Runs great. Longevity? My 1999 Jeep Wrangler hit 163,000 miles pulling into the parking lot at work this morning. But, it is NOT a comfortable long distance cruiser. The Grand Cherokee was and the Commander is, too (but not as good as the old JGC). I've had outstanding service from all three Jeeps. Generally just routine maintenance, but the Wrangler has had some things done due to the miles (brakes, transmission leak last month, fuel pump a while back, exhaust manifold). But, the only car I've had with less work was a 1988 1/2 Ford Escort. But I wouldn't recommend that for a family. :D
 
Look at the Jeep Grand Cherokee or the Jeep Liberty.
I have owned both, both of them as reliable as a hammer. It sounds like you keep vehicles for a long time. Jeep offers the lifetime powertrain warranty. When we bought our last Jeep, because the powertrain warranty covered the really expensive stuff (engine, transmission, etc), we could get a lifetime, unlimited bumper-to-bumper warranty from Jeep (not a third party) for less than $2000.

Both are very comfortable, both will get through anything (have the dealer replace the the stock junk tires with BFG All Terrain TAs), we have never had the slightest issue with either of them.
 
AdamZ said:
Also one word of caution. Once you or Jess sit up high in the SUV for a while you won't want to go back to the low seating.
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I think it depends on the person. I owned a Ford Explorer before I bought my Subaru and I like the way the Subaru sits much better than the Explorer. I also like the way it drives and rides better than the Explorer, in snow and otherwise, by far. The only thing I would say about the Subaru is that is isn't particularly quiet for a car, but I'm sure Andrew knows that since he has one already.
 
+1 on the pilot and on the subaru outback.

Do yourself a favor - stay away from jeep, and any other american for that matter.
 
timrj said:
Do yourself a favor - stay away from jeep, and any other american for that matter.
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My '95 XJ has been pretty reliable... A WJ that my S.O. had was not as bulletproof though -- the electric window controllers went out within a couple of months of each other and it was around $400 each time... Plus, the transmission / diff always seemed to have a bit of a whine in it... It had the high output V8, so it was good on acceleration, although I hated that it had a speed limiter on it... The XJ's "speed limiter" is the fact that it has the aerodynamics of a brick and 190 hp can only push it so fast (maybe 100 mph if there isn't too much of a headwind). I've traveled on roads that had 18" of snow on them... When I stopped and looked back, I could see the two tire marks and a half circle between the two where the diff had plowed through...
 
I have an 08 Toyota Highlander. Only has 60,000 miles so far but has been trouble free except for the OE tires which only lasted 35,000 mi. Over the years we have owned 1/2 dozen or so Toyotas put over 120K mi.s each and never a complaint.

22+ highway and ~18 city.
6 seats (rear 2 small).
Seats fold (rear 2 together and middle 2 individually) down for lots of cargo space.
Comfortable and Quiet.
5,000 lb towing capacity.

We bought this to do a regular 5 hour trip and to pull a boat. It has done that in comfort.
 
We shopped about a year ago and wound up with a used '07 Lexus RX. But in the process we looked at about everything out there and were very impressed - and surprised - by the new Chevy Equinox / GMC Terrain. Very comfortable, practical, nice features for the price.
 
Andrew, don't go overboard. A Honda CRV will serve very nicely (one size down from Pilot).
 
wabower said:
I have driven Suburbans since l99l. MX is peanuts, dependability has been near-perfect, versatility and hauling flexibility second-to-none. Mileage is slightly less than some others, but I encourage anyone who is considering a car to calculate annual fuel cost differential rather than MPG differential to obtain a more-useful number for budgeting and selection purposes.
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And you know who to bribe with rides in your Skywagon to get parts to keep that jalopy running for another 20 miles.


--Mike
Denton County Auto Salvage
 
Forester. More room than the Outback, that great AWD, and a boxer engine that you can put on a homebuilt airplane later.
 
TMetzinger said:
Forester. More room than the Outback, that great AWD, and a boxer engine that you can put on a homebuilt airplane later.
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now THAT is how you make an NA post aviation related! :cornut:
 
I have put about 170k miles on a Subaru Outback so far. In that time, the car has broken down only once, and that one was entirely avoidable (nanny didn't notice the signs of a dead alternator before heading out on a 230mile trip). It did have the leaking headgaskets (standard issue on that model year) and required new cam oil-seals a while ago. Other than that, the car has been bulletproof.
Otoh, I would stay away from AWD if you dont need it (iow you dont live in the mountains or in the row of states along the canadian border). It increases your tire expenses and adds a lot of hardware that can break once you hit 200k miles :wink2:.

I really like Honda, my Accord finally needed maintenance after 75k miles ( oh gosh I had to replace the tires and a set of rear brake-pads). If they continued to offer an Accord station wagon, I would buy another one in a heartbeat.

Brother in law had very good experience with Mazda (Protege, Millenia now a '6'). I am looking for something with 3rd row seating right now and given the alternatives, a CX-9 seems to be a good option. Chintzy plastic interior, but at 1/2 the price of a comparable BMW or Benz you have to make some compromises.
 
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timrj said:
+1 on the pilot and on the subaru outback.

Do yourself a favor - stay away from jeep, and any other american for that matter.
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Gotta say - for those who use vehicles for work - real, hard work, heavy load towing and the like - the Japanese products just cannot compete. For a while there, they were "nicer," but that really doesn't cover anymore either.

Key exception: I hear the Mercedes Sprinters (also sold as Dodges for a while), with the diesel, are good service trucks... but they cost 30% more, too.

And (by the way) most Japanese vehicles are built here, now.

Find what works, for you, and roll with it.
 
Wife and I have five kids and travel extensively. We have a 'burb and an MDX. The MDX is currently at 90k and is our second one after putting on 125k on the first. Both of them have gone virtually free of unexpected maintenance. One interesting thing about this vehicle is that it pays to put in premium fuel due to MPG increases.

Eggman
 
James_Dean said:
Wife and I have five kids and travel extensively. We have a 'burb and an MDX. The MDX is currently at 90k and is our second one after putting on 125k on the first. Both of them have gone virtually free of unexpected maintenance. One interesting thing about this vehicle is that it pays to put in premium fuel due to MPG increases.

Eggman
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it gets even worse with regular gas?
 
My suggestion would be to try sticking with the Outback you currently have. Reason:

1) You already own it, and it doesn't cost you anything to keep it
2) If you don't like it and find it inadequate, you can always then decide to change to something else

I agree with Wayne that the Suburban is a great choice. So is the Excursion. With the diesel, either of them will do 20 mpg easily.
 
TMetzinger said:
Forester. More room than the Outback, that great AWD, and a boxer engine that you can put on a homebuilt airplane later.
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Does it have a surprising amount of legroom like I was told? I have to try some on for size to decide if I can ever drive anything recent.

I tried a Lincoln Aviator (Ford Explorer) and THAT wasn't big enough.

Thinking Toyota FJ Cruser or ....
 
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