"Attention all aircraft, information X-Ray is now current"

TangoWhiskey

TangoWhiskey

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Feb 23, 2005
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Midlothian, TX
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KJWY - Mid-Way Regional
Random thought while driving the dogs to the puppy park for a Christmas Day romp:

It should be "Attention all pilots..."

Aircraft don't have ears.
 
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What if your dogs aren't puppies, can they go to the puppy park?
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Random thought while driving the dogs to the puppy park for a Christmas Day romp:

It should be "Attention all pilots..."

Aircraft don't have ears.
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I never saw the need for "Attention all...", just "Metropolis information Alpha is current."
 
roncachamp said:
I never saw the need for "Attention all...", just "Metropolis information Alpha is current."
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Agreed. For that matter, why say the facility name? "Fort Worth Center, Baron 55WB, 8000." No other center will be using the same frequency close enough to hear it. So why not just "Center, ...", "Departure, ..." and "Approach,..."?
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Agreed. For that matter, why say the facility name? "Fort Worth Center, Baron 55WB, 8000." No other center will be using the same frequency close enough to hear it. So why not just "Center, ...", "Departure, ..." and "Approach,..."?
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The controller is identifying the airport the ATIS applies to, not the ATC facility.
 
roncachamp said:
The controller is identifying the airport the ATIS applies to, not the ATC facility.
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You misunderstood. I moved onto another point of communication.

"5WH, contact Fort Worth Center, 135.975"

"135.975, 5WH!"

<switching freqs>

"Fort Worth Center, N855WH, 8200 climbing 9000"

Could all be reduced to this less chatty version:

"5WH, contact Center, 135.975"

"135.975, 5WH!"

<switching freqs>

"Center, N855WH, 8200 climbing 9000"

No other nearby Center will be using 135.975. Why name it in the calls?
 
TangoWhiskey said:
You misunderstood. I moved onto another point of communication.

"5WH, contact Fort Worth Center, 135.975"

"135.975, 5WH!"

<switching freqs>

"Fort Worth Center, N855WH, 8200 climbing 9000"

Could all be reduced to this less chatty version:

"5WH, contact Center, 135.975"

"135.975, 5WH!"

<switching freqs>

"Center, N855WH, 8200 climbing 9000"

No other nearby Center will be using 135.975. Why name it in the calls?
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It does tend to save a little time when a pilot has dialed in the wrong frequency.

"Metropolis Center, Belchfire 1234A, six thousand."

Belchfire 1234A, Smallville approach, you're on the wrong frequency. Return to your previous, they'll tell you where you belong."
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Random thought while driving the dogs to the puppy park for a Christmas Day romp:
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Let me know when and where sometime so I can introduce Sugar to your Brittainy's. My Anatolian can definitely use the enthusiasm of your two boys to wear down this energy reserve.
 
roncachamp said:
I never saw the need for "Attention all...", just "Metropolis information Alpha is current."
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With folks tuned to listen for their tail number, I assume the thought is that it opens everybody's mental filter to appreciate that what follows is relevant to them.
 
They could do like the Coast Guard and just say, "Pahn, Pahn, Pahn" to get everyone's attention. ;) ;) ;)
 
roncachamp said:
It does tend to save a little time when a pilot has dialed in the wrong frequency.
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Have personally heard aircraft even being tuned to wrong country, not even wrong airport or radar, hundreds of miles apart. Both were called Radar. Often takes just one digit to be off.
 
yhuubert said:
Have personally heard aircraft even being tuned to wrong country, not even wrong airport or radar, hundreds of miles apart. Both were called Radar. Often takes just one digit to be off.
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Not saying it ever happened to me while I was in IMC being vectored for the ILS into Austin...

...but I have been given a frequency change and mis-dialed, ending up on a frequency which (1) was wrong, and (2) was in-range for another facility. "Wrong frequency, Bud," was the terse response. So I had to scramble for the right frequency because I had already changed the standby to Tower. This is when my policy of always writing down every freq I am assigned, just in case.

Not that I am saying it ever happened to me... :D
 
[email protected] said:
With folks tuned to listen for their tail number, I assume the thought is that it opens everybody's mental filter to appreciate that what follows is relevant to them.
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"Attention all aircraft..." is prescribed phraseology in a few situations but announcing a new ATIS code isn't one of them. That information would really be relevant only to those aircraft that will be operating at the specified airport.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Agreed. For that matter, why say the facility name?
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Just to remind you of where you are...and who to look for if you have a lost com situation. Many of my flights go from Nor Cal Approach to Oakland Center to LA Center to another LA Center to So Cal Approach and I have lost radio contact more than once. I wanna know what approach or center I should be trying to get beck in contact with.

SCCutler said:
...but I have been given a frequency change and mis-dialed, ending up on a frequency which (1) was wrong, and (2) was in-range for another facility. "Wrong frequency, Bud," was the terse response. So I had to scramble for the right frequency because I had already changed the standby to Tower. This is when my policy of always writing down every freq I am assigned, just in case.

Not that I am saying it ever happened to me... :D
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HA, that just happened to me last week and I DID write it down. Knew something was not right when I called in "Nor Cal, Skylane 12345 level 8000" then heard "Southwest 1345, clear for takeoff runway 34". Whoops, that can't be the right frequency!
 
roncachamp said:
"Attention all aircraft..." is prescribed phraseology in a few situations but announcing a new ATIS code isn't one of them. That information would really be relevant only to those aircraft that will be operating at the specified airport.
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I don't know anything about prescribed phraseology, and may have lost the point of your remarks due to my small brain, but wouldn't updated information for the ATIS be broadcast by tower for a particular airport such that anybody tuned in is operating at that airport and it would have relevance to all aircraft?
 
What difference does it make? Either one communicates the message.

This is like pilots that say "I always hate it when someone says he's landing on "zero eight" instead of just "eight". (or the other way around). What difference does it make, if the guy says "zero eight" or "eight", we know what he means.

Now saying "taking the active" that one is not good. The reason is, planes coming into the pattern want to hear "taking runway 8" so they know which runway is active. If the guy uses "active" then the pilot that just came on frequency doesn't know, does he?

And use the term "departure" for departure, all right? NOT "upwind". Yes its an upwind, but upwind can be anywhere (like parallel to the runway, sort of opposite of downwind). If you are on runway centerline and just took off, you are on DEPARTURE.

At least that's my take on it.
 
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The real question is, if no one is on the freq, is the controller still required to make a blanket notification of the new ATIS?:rolleyes:
 
Velocity173 said:
The real question is, if no one is on the freq, is the controller still required to make a blanket notification of the new ATIS?:rolleyes:
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I suspect it's still required.

I've certainly heard that happen when arriving at night at KSAC, just prior to initial contact, when no one else was around.

Now, it may be that Tower knew I was coming, as I was on flight following, but Approach knew I had the ATIS.

If it's quiet, it's not like Tower has anything better to do.
 
[email protected] said:
I don't know anything about prescribed phraseology, and may have lost the point of your remarks due to my small brain, but wouldn't updated information for the ATIS be broadcast by tower for a particular airport such that anybody tuned in is operating at that airport and it would have relevance to all aircraft?
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Yes.

Let's say Metropolis approach provides services to Metropolis International Airport as well as a satellite towered field, Smallville Municipal Airport. Metropolis tower cuts a new ATIS and advises Metropolis approach of the code. The approach controller broadcasts, "Metropolis information Mike is current." That information is relevant to aircraft headed for Metropolis, but not so much for those aircraft headed for Smallville or for overflight traffic. It's the same when Smallville tower cuts a new ATIS. Smallville tower advises approach of the code and the approach controller broadcasts, "Smallville information Sierra is current." That information is relevant to aircraft headed for Smallville, but not so much for those aircraft headed for Metropolis or for overflight traffic.

Now suppose all that happens but approach does not identify the airports. How many puzzled pilots do you suppose would be calling approach to tell the controller the ATIS code is wrong?
 
coloradobluesky said:
What difference does it make? Either one communicates the message.

This is like pilots that say "I always hate it when someone says he's landing on "zero eight" instead of just "eight". (or the other way around). What difference does it make, if the guy says "zero eight" or "eight", we know what he means.
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What if someone says he's landing on "zero two" instead of just "two"? Is he really landing on runway two, or did he transpose the digits?
 
Velocity173 said:
The real question is, if no one is on the freq, is the controller still required to make a blanket notification of the new ATIS?:rolleyes:
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If Helen Keller was alone in the woods and she fell down, would she make a noise?
 
MAKG1 said:
I suspect it's still required.
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The book says, "Broadcast on all appropriate frequencies to advise aircraft of a change in the ATIS code/message." So does no aircraft on frequency mean there's no broadcast requirement? Too insignificant to argue.
 
roncachamp said:
If Helen Keller was alone in the woods and she fell down, would she make a noise?
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Yes she would. Making noise is not dependent on someone hearing it. It makes noise regardless of whether someone hears it.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Now saying "taking the active" that one is not good. The reason is, planes coming into the pattern want to hear "taking runway 8" so they know which runway is active. If the guy uses "active" then the pilot that just came on frequency doesn't know, does he?

it.
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Pet peeve. Which runway is the active? 20, which several planes are using? 27 being used at the same time for crosswind landing training? 2, with a helo landing parallel?
 
coloradobluesky said:
Yes she would. Making noise is not dependent on someone hearing it. It makes noise regardless of whether someone hears it.
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Are you sure? How do you define noise? If there are no ears there is no sound, just vibrations in some medium.
 
Understand the difference between a station and an operator. Transmissions are directed at the station. We assume there's an operator there and we don't care who he is.

N5327K happens to be my station call sign. Nobody directs radio calls at FlyingRon (usually).


I always loved flying in Australia "All Stations and Darby Traffic...This is Cessna Uniform Golf Kilo 5 west."
 
roncachamp said:
What if someone says he's landing on "zero two" instead of just "two"? Is he really landing on runway two, or did he transpose the digits?
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Good point, it might be a dyslexic pilot. :lol:
Or it might be a "dam foruner" who just says it right. (though the FAA still won't admit that it is safer but they use full 0-padded three digits on heading assignments - maybe they will wake up and adopt it one day *crossfingers* )
 
All stations, stand by for SKYKING EAM traffic, do not reply. Authentication to follow...
 
BigBadLou said:
Good point, it might be a dyslexic pilot. :lol:
Or it might be a "dam foruner" who just says it right. (though the FAA still won't admit that it is safer but they use full 0-padded three digits on heading assignments - maybe they will wake up and adopt it one day *crossfingers* )
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What is the evidence that it is safer?
 
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