ATP Written

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Skymac, Nov 19, 2019.

  1. Skymac

    Skymac Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Has anyone used the ASA Prepware for the ATP Multi Written?

    I’ve heard people using sources such as Sheppard but I’ve used ASA for every written in even taken and had excellent results, but I just figured I’d get ideas as I’ve found a couple of wrong answers I believe in the ASA since I started reviewing it yesterday. They have a convent iPhone app and the Sheppard is only on the iPad which I don’t always have on me.
     
  2. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    You want Shepard Air because they are going to give you 99% of the actual questions you will see on the test and the explanations.
     
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  3. DavidWhite

    DavidWhite Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Sheppard Air seconded....
     
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  4. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    A little off your question, but if you haven’t already taken the CTP course, I’d recommend a review of the ATP-MEL specific Oral tasks in the ACS (the ones that are not required for “just” a type rating) to get an idea for what you should be getting from the CTP course.
     
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  5. write-stuff

    write-stuff En-Route

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    Memories of questions like how many stewardesses are required on a 727 with 42 passengers. How many fire trucks required at airports is another one that I learned and have since forgotten.
     
  6. DavidWhite

    DavidWhite Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    The FAA written tests are so woefully outdated it isn't even funny.

    "Snoopy is taking off in his Sopwith Camel to do battle with the mighty Red Baron. Snoopys Camel burns approximately 15 gallons per hour of fuel, and cruises at 100mph. If the battle area is 960 furlongs away, how many gallons of fuel will snoopy burn enroute?"
     
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  7. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

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    Do Sheppard air
     
  8. 35 AoA

    35 AoA Pattern Altitude

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    Yes, do Sheppard. And when you do it, don't do it like I first did and slow roll the study for a couple months. Do like I eventually did and just binge for a week straight and then take the test when you score a passing grade on the practice test (like it tells you to do). You will pass. You will probably even get a nearly perfect score or better. The better you do, the less automatic ammunition the examiner or check airman is going to have for giving you stump the chump questions on your oral, which is good news as well.
     
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  9. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach

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    Is Sheppard air any good since they revamped the ATP knowledge test back in 2014? I used Sheppard Air for my ATP written taken in July 2014, but the knowledge test changed significantly (for the better) after them. I though Sheppard Air's approach was a little hokey using answer memorization, but for the old ATP I didn't mind. I wasn't expecting to actually learn anything using it.
     
  10. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

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    Yes. I used them in 2016 before I went to my airline and the practice tests were exactly like the actual ATP written.
     
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  11. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach

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    Do they still have you memorize a cheat sheet of things like "Phoenix high, Dallas mid, St. Louis low" for memorizing which answer to select based on the cities mentioned in the flight planning question? It turned a 15 minute question into a 15 second question. I remember finishing the ATP knowledge test in like 40 minutes.
     
  12. MuseChaser

    MuseChaser Pattern Altitude

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    That concerns me... as a student. I'm not a big fan of tests or anything, but the point is go get you to understand the subject material necessary. I guess you could make an argument that some of the test questions are not "real-world" useful or practical, but still... memorizing the answers to specific questions isn't the same thing as learning how to calculate that answers. Far from it. Why would that be a good thing?
     
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  13. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    It concerns me as an examiner for the same reasons.
     
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  14. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach

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    It's not, but for a time the ATP knowledge test was widely considered a knowledge test that was woefully out of date, even for the 121 operations it was intended to test for. The reality is any real world 121 knowledge necessary for operations will be provided by the airline hiring the pilot.

    My understanding is that the post 2014 knowledge test was significantly overhauled and more relevant. Honestly I haven't looked at the ATP PTS/ACS to see what is included.

    I agree with you though, I definitely did not like the idea of studying for the test rather than learning material, but at the time I was up against a deadline to knock out the knowledge test before the rule change effective 7/31/2014. I didn't actually take my ATC practical test until 23.75 months later, giving me just a bit more than a week to knock out the check ride before my knowledge test results turned into a pumpkin.
     
  15. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

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    Yea they had that memorization matrix grid thing. Probably the same cheat sheet.
     
  16. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    oh my god, how could you forget that!
     
  17. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    The thing reviewing questions can do is familiarize you with how the FAA asks questions and how to identify details within the questions.
     
  18. IK04

    IK04 Pattern Altitude

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    Yeah, when I took my airplane ATP written back in the stone age, most of the questions were based on B-727 performance planning, route planning and regulations for a 100+ passenger airplane.
     
  19. DavidWhite

    DavidWhite Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I don't think anyone is saying you shouldn't have a good understanding of the information being presented, just that it's a whole hell of a lot easier to memorize the questions than it is to understand how as Clip4 said "The FAA asks questions." Standardized tests have shown to be damn near useless at showing a general scope of knowledge, and I think the writtens need to go the way of the buffalo. A more in-depth oral exam can generally give a much better idea of an applicants level of understanding IMO.
     
  20. Skymac

    Skymac Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Sheppard it is then!

    Getting it done fast is my goal and memorizing the answers works great as well. The entire written process is bologna past the Private, Instrument, and CFI in my book.
     
  21. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Unfortunately since the tests are useless, very few go for a general scope of knowledge, either.
     
  22. write-stuff

    write-stuff En-Route

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    Generally speaking, people who study more will make better scores on knowledge tests. So I don't think they're "damn near useless". They absolutely are a good indicator of a general scope of knowledge.
     
  23. falconkidding

    falconkidding Line Up and Wait

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    I memorized answers just to save time. Yeah i could spend 5 min doing some WxB calculation off some janky paper charts or i could just remember dash 8 answers are middle. Same for flight planing ones. I did that on all my writtens. If a question took more than 10 seconds to answer id just guess. Scored 93 on my ppl cpl and atp using the guess strategy. Id rather finish the test in 10 min vs taking 45 to do it to 100%.

    Sheppard air definately for the atp.
     
  24. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    And weight & balance continues to be one of the weakest areas for my ATP applicants. Most can get “weight x arm = moment”, but they struggle with where to go from there. My last applicant came up with a CG in the nose cone of the airplane and had no clue it wasn’t where it was supposed to be.
     
  25. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot En-Route

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    I think the issue is the attitude towards the written has spread in the training footprint. I see the same issues with my students.
     
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  26. falconkidding

    falconkidding Line Up and Wait

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    Yeah but doing WxB for a Q400 doesn't exactly contribute to any knowledge of WxB. Which is the problem with the written hardly anything is relevant to the actual use of or knowledge required for the rating. Our APD's all said ram dump that sh it. The writtens are either stupid simple questions, obscure trivia( so many questions on ARFF) or tedious time wasters( flight planing with multiple turns, altitutes, winds aloft all for a 1pt question). Thats why the near universal advice is shepard air spend 5 or 6 hours studying then take the test get your 90+ on it then you can concentrate on systems, ops specs, profiles etc that is actually relevant to your job/aircraft.

    I might have a more dismal view of the faa writtens than most but thats cause I don't like my time wasted. That minimal effort attitude doesn't transfer over to my operating 121 or my personal flying though.
     
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