ATP needs DPE to fly a single

Daleandee

Daleandee

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Dale Andee
I ran into this today with a friend and I never really gave it much thought but found it interesting enough to discuss.

He began his pilot training in the military with twin engine aircraft and now is ATP flying triple sevens full of cargo around the planet. If I understand this correctly, to fly a single (ASEL) he must take instruction from a CFI, and an oral and check ride with a DPE. If I got this straight, this rating (for him as an ATP) can be flown to a class rating within the airplane category which he holds so it could be for private, commercial, or even ATP (not many single engine ATP that I'm aware of).

How confused am I on this?
 
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Yes, it's the same thing as a single engine pilot needing to obtain the proper training and checkride to add a multiengine rating. A multiengine rating is not "greater than" a single engine rating, though we usually think of it that way. Though the multiengine ATP has additional requirements (namely the ATP-CTP course).

Unfortunately I think he would need to take an ATP single engine checkride. I don't think you can add a class rating at a lower grade of pilot certificate. But I'm not sure. I don't see it addressed in Part 61.
 
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dmspilot said:
Unfortunately I think he would need to take an ATP single engine checkride. I don't think you can add a class rating at a lower grade of pilot certificate.
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Interesting ... thanks
 
dmspilot said:
Unfortunately I think he would need to take an ATP single engine checkride. I don't think you can add a class rating at a lower grade of pilot certificate.
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tonycondon said:
There's no requirement to add a class at your highest rating level.
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I hold a Private Certificate ASEL and ASES Light Sport Endorsement, both on my Certificate.
 
I know several airline pilots in the same situation.

MauleSkinner said:
Regardless, I strongly suspect the ATP ASEL rating would be much easier for him than a Comm ASEL rating.
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I'm not familiar with all of the requirements, but do you say that because of the required training in a single for private or commercial? I think ATP would still require him to log 50 hours in a single.
 
Lindberg said:
I'm not familiar with all of the requirements, but do you say that because of the required training in a single for private or commercial? I think ATP would still require him to log 50 hours in a single.
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Yeah, I forgot about the 50 hours…the ATP would be more expensive. I was thinking more along the lines of instrument flying vs lazy 8s, chandelles, steep spirals, etc.
 
dmspilot said:
I don't think you can add a class rating at a lower grade of pilot certificate. But I'm not sure. I don't see it addressed in Part 61.
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He can add SEL at ATP, CPL, or PVT privileges. Check the applicable ACS for the tasks that would be required.

If SEL was added at less than ATP level, the restrictions section would say something like, "Private privileges A:SEL".
 
Same.
ATP-ME, now find a need for the SE.

(oh, not same as in I fly heavy iron like your friend lol)
 
dmspilot said:
Yes, it's the same thing as a single engine pilot needing to obtain the proper training and checkride to add a multiengine rating. A multiengine rating is not "greater than" a single engine rating, though we usually think of it that way. Though the multiengine ATP has additional requirements (namely the ATP-CTP course).

Unfortunately I think he would need to take an ATP single engine checkride. I don't think you can add a class rating at a lower grade of pilot certificate. But I'm not sure. I don't see it addressed in Part 61.
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Single engine doesn’t have to be ATP.
 
We used to do single engine add-on's with some regularity. B-52's were based at the nearby air force base so pilots wanted to add their single engine ratings so they could take their family to lunch or go camping/fishing in the Idaho Back Country.
After the Scott Crossfield accident, DPE's were pretty tough on them about performance and weather in single engine aircraft.
Actually since weather and performance(to lazy to confirm) aren't part of the ASEL Transition PTS (at that time), The Examiners sort of had an agreement with the base commander that they would have a discussion about these topics before starting the exam.

Brian
CFIIIG/ASEL
 
The simplest answer is that it could be done with only an endorsement depending on the goal.
 
mondtster said:
The simplest answer is that it could be done with only an endorsement depending on the goal.
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Please clarify. From all I've read that's not possible. I'm willing to be corrected ...
 
Daleandee said:
Please clarify. From all I've read that's not possible. I'm willing to be corrected ...
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All that you need to act as PIC in solo operations for a category/class of aircraft that you're not rated for is an endorsement. That endorsement may or may not have limitations, which could mean that it is permanent.
 
ATP SE add-on I hear is just an instrument check to higher standards. And I'm curious if this is an "at risk" situation for someone seeking $100 burgers but making their living with their certificate, should they have a bad day and fail the check ride?
 
catmandu said:
And I'm curious if this is an "at risk" situation for someone seeking $100 burgers but making their living with their certificate, should they have a bad day and fail the check ride?
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My friend did mention this as a concern he has i.e. if he were he to fail a check ride for ASEL then his ATP employment may/could fall into jeopardy.
 
mondtster said:
All that you need to act as PIC in solo operations for a category/class of aircraft that you're not rated for is an endorsement. That endorsement may or may not have limitations, which could mean that it is permanent.
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As I understand it such an endorsement would be for solo flight and it does not allow the pilot to act as PIC with passengers or other crew onboard unless they hold the appropriate category/class rating. I think with his employment tied to his ATP rating that wouldn't be the prudent way to handle this.
 
Daleandee said:
My friend did mention this as a concern he has i.e. if he were he to fail a check ride for ASEL then his ATP employment may/could fall into jeopardy.
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If his employer is worried about a checkride bust that has nothing to do with his job, the checkride bust is the least of his worries.
 
Daleandee said:
My friend did mention this as a concern he has i.e. if he were he to fail a check ride for ASEL then his ATP employment may/could fall into jeopardy.
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If your buddy is worried about a bust after the number of check rides he’s successfully accomplished in his career, he needs to apply the same rigor to his ASEL training as he applied to his .mil training.
 
So my question would be how did he not log single engine time in the military.... aren't the lead and gold wing guys and gals using the T-6 for primary training?
 
Ventucky Red said:
So my question would be how did he not log single engine time in the military.... aren't the lead and gold wing guys and gals using the T-6 for primary training?
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The last Tweets retired in 2009; the first T-6s came online in 2002. Mixed experience for a while. Currently serving mid-to-senior majors and above fall in that space.
 
Ventucky Red said:
So my question would be how did he not log single engine time in the military.... aren't the lead and gold wing guys and gals using the T-6 for primary training?
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I knew a guy that was in the Army and went from rotor craft to King Air. Never flew a single or multi piston airplane. Last I knew he was flying jets for a private company.
 
RyanShort1 said:
An ATP certificate and thousands of hours of multi means nothing to a Piper Cub. It can still absolutely humble you. I've literally seen that happen.
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But for some reason me instructing in Douglas A-4 Skyhawk means I’m qualified (with a 50 question test) to teach in a Cessna 172 Skyhawk… or a Cub… it’s all pretty random.
 
Tools said:
But for some reason me instructing in Douglas A-4 Skyhawk means I’m qualified (with a 50 question test) to teach in a Cessna 172 Skyhawk… or a Cub… it’s all pretty random.
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It’s not random, to simply written so as to not require ratings and endorsements for EVERYTHING you fly like some countries do.
 
Yes, he has to fly with a CFI and take a checkride in a single engine airplane. He can take the checkride at the Private, Commercial or ATP level. And his certificate will say :

Private (or Commercial) Privileges
Airplane Single Engine Land

A lot of USAF pilots got their Commercial AMEL and Instrument Airplane from their military training, but never flew single engine, so did not get that rating. I did that. I had my Private ASEL, but had to train and take a checkride to bump it up to a Commercial to add CFI ASE. The good news is, no written exam needed if you stay in Category (Airplane) and at a level where you already hold a rating.

I did my ASES when I had my Private, so it shows on my certificate as above, but for Airplane Single Engine Sea.

If he wants to do his single to ATP level, Debbie Rihn at T41 in Houston area is a ATP ASES DPE and will do a course. https://www.harveyrihn.com/
 
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