ATC'ers - Clearances

Discussion in 'Cleared for the Approach' started by Cpt_Kirk, Aug 26, 2016.

  1. Cpt_Kirk

    Cpt_Kirk En-Route

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    3,297
    Location:
    Georgia

    Display name:
    Ted Striker
    This morning I was holding short of the runway awaiting my IFR release when I had to return to the ramp because a passenger's daughter went into labor. I taxied back, shut down, let them deplane, cranked up again, and taxied out on my previously issued IFR (not taxi) clearance.

    I asked the controller if the previously issued IFR clearance was still valid and he confirmed that it was. At what point would an issued clearance expire or no longer be valid? I'm familiar with a flight plan's time limit in the system but not what happens when a clearance has been issued and you have an unexpected delay.
     
  2. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    23,226
    Location:
    Alabama

    Display name:
    Mark
    Clearance void time is 30' usually at an uncontrolled airport. If you're at a controlled airport, the tower has to get a release from approach or center, so I don't think there's a time, but I really am not sure.
     
  3. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Messages:
    11,221
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA

    Display name:
    Luvflyin
    Forever if you weren't given a void time. The "hold for release, released at and clearance void time" procedures were 'overhauled' and went into much more detail than previously many years ago. There had been 'incidents' that led to this. In your case you were "awaiting" IFR release so you must have been told "hold for release" when you copied the clearance. If for some reason the clearance has "gone bad" because maybe it timed out of the system or the traffic situation has changed, it will be caught when you call for release.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2016
  4. Cpt_Kirk

    Cpt_Kirk En-Route

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    3,297
    Location:
    Georgia

    Display name:
    Ted Striker
    I should have made it clearer that I was at a towered field while it was open. My mistake.

    Im just curious about what would have happened if i had recieved my clearance, got taxi instructions from ground, returned to the ramp, shutdown, and then never cranked back up (assuming I never called the tower to let them know of my intentions after shutting down).
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2016
  5. roncachamp

    roncachamp Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Messages:
    7,246
    Location:
    De Pere, WI

    Display name:
    Steven P McNicoll
    If no action had been taken by the tower staff to extend your flight plan it would have timed out two hours after the proposed departure time.
     
    denverpilot likes this.
  6. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,670
    Location:
    west Texas

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    If I get 15 mins I feel lucky; usually the vinob is 10, often less - and I am usually in the boonies. You really see them tie up the airspace for >30mins? I must misunderstand.
     
  7. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Messages:
    11,221
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA

    Display name:
    Luvflyin
    A 30 minute void time would be at an airport way off the beaten path. I can't imagine a controller ever issuing a "window" that long. There is a hard limit of 30 minutes to advise ATC if you were unable to depart. That is there so they don't have to block the airspace on your route for a long time.

    4−3−4. DEPARTURE RESTRICTIONS,
    CLEARANCE VOID TIMES, HOLD FOR
    RELEASE, AND RELEASE TIMES
    Assign departure restrictions, clearance void times,
    hold for release, or release times when necessary to
    separate departures from other traffic or to restrict or
    regulate the departure flow.
    REFERENCE−
    FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 10−3−1, Overdue Aircraft.
    FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 10−4−1, Traffic Restrictions.
    FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 10−4−3, Traffic Resumption.
    a. Clearance Void Times.
    1. When issuing clearance void times at airports
    not served by control towers, provide alternative instructions requiring the pilots to advise ATC of their
    intentions no later than 30 minutes after the clearance
    void time if not airborne.
     
  8. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    23,226
    Location:
    Alabama

    Display name:
    Mark
    Yeah should have wrote a max limit of 30', my bad. :ohsnap:
     
    Let'sgoflying! likes this.
  9. Gucci Pilot

    Gucci Pilot Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Messages:
    2,067

    Display name:
    Gucci Pilot
    I've had MANY times were I had to taxi back to parking for a maintenance issue. I just ask if our clearance is still valid. You have two hours to open your flight plan from your proposed departure time you filed. Your IFR flight plan is opened at your IFR release which would be when you are cleared for take-off.
     
  10. Cpt_Kirk

    Cpt_Kirk En-Route

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    3,297
    Location:
    Georgia

    Display name:
    Ted Striker
    That's what I wanted to know. Thanks. I was thinking that it was officially opened when I copied my clearance and started moving the airplane on the ground at a towered field... not sure why.
     
  11. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    8,269
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    You can have the tower/clearance delivery update your flight plan if you think that you're going to be longer than two hours. Any half-trained flight data person can do that with just a few keystrokes and Bob's your uncle.
     
  12. FlyingMonkey

    FlyingMonkey Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    382

    Display name:
    FlyingMonkey
    so do your runup before copying the clearance?...in case you have an issue you haven't spend your and controllers time with it?
     
  13. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,017
    Location:
    Chapel Hill NC

    Display name:
    Mark
    Ah. Glad you got your answer. A delay in takeoff aka "Hold for release" just means "hang in there until we can fit you into the system." And it can take place at both towered and untiwered airports.
     
  14. ARFlyer

    ARFlyer En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2011
    Messages:
    3,132
    Location:
    Central AR

    Display name:
    ARFlyer
    Yep. Then you get the dreaded "Taxi to the penalty box and await release".

    DCA and Wilke-Barre really like those hold for an hour releases.... Especially on go home day. :mad:
     
    mscard88 likes this.
  15. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    23,226
    Location:
    Alabama

    Display name:
    Mark
    Nothing worse, especially if you commute.

    edit: and miss the last flight home.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2016
    midlifeflyer likes this.