Aspen Avionics announces integrated AOA indicator

ahkahn

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Aspen's Evolution PFD is a great value, and this add-on provides an additional safety features to an already good product.
 
If there is no additional hardware, it's an ESTIMATE of AoA and isn't worth the effort to upgrade the software. There are no additional benefits to a fake indication.

Kinda like assuming the green arc on your ASI is a substitute for a stall warning.
 
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If there is no additional hardware, it's an ESTIMATE of AoA and isn't worth the effort to upgrade the software. There are no additional benefits to a fake indication.

Kinda like assuming the green arc on your ASI is a substitute for a stall warning.

Even if there is a new sensor installed to do it, the AFMS may still say something like "Supplemental only an not for navigation" meaning its not really "approved" for squat.

To get a true honest AOA I would think flight testing and calibration would be make/model specific as well as dependent on what STC's are installed. STOL kits, VG's, gross weight increases (reduced flap limits) would all need careful evaluation.
 
If there is no additional hardware, it's an ESTIMATE of AoA and isn't worth the effort to upgrade the software. There are no additional benefits to a fake indication.

Kinda like assuming the green arc on your ASI is a substitute for a stall warning.

CIRA says otherwise...
 
If there is no additional hardware, it's an ESTIMATE of AoA and isn't worth the effort to upgrade the software. There are no additional benefits to a fake indication.

Kinda like assuming the green arc on your ASI is a substitute for a stall warning.

I would have to disagree with you on this. It has attitude data, speed data, 3D data (WAAS source), so there is no reason why the computer cannot figure out an exact angle of attack... especially when it is calibrated.

It has any data available that a hardware solution would have.
 
I would have to disagree with you on this. It has attitude data, speed data, 3D data (WAAS source), so there is no reason why the computer cannot figure out an exact angle of attack... especially when it is calibrated.

It has any data available that a hardware solution would have.

Varies from plane to plane though. Even on the same make and model. Also, - think icing.
 
I would have to disagree with you on this. It has attitude data, speed data, 3D data (WAAS source), so there is no reason why the computer cannot figure out an exact angle of attack... especially when it is calibrated.

It has any data available that a hardware solution would have.

Really?

And just how timely do you think that VSI measurement is? On an air data computer (not an AHRS, which has no air data), it still comes from a calibrated static port leak with seconds of lag. Opens up a whole new world of PIOs chasing that indication. Neither a vane nor the dual pitot probe design has that flaw on anywhere near that scale.

Your measurement can only be as good as your worst input data.

Be real careful about differencing noise, as well….GPS velocities are A LOT less accurate than GPS positions, even when the noise is small as it is with working WAAS. Suppressing differencing noise is a solved problem, fairly easy to deal with, but it trades off with increased lag.

Just because you can calculate an answer doesn't mean it is a useful or correct answer. It takes much more than that. Even a perfect indication of a critical approaching stall doesn't do you much good if it tells you about it after you have already stalled.
 
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Really?

And just how timely do you think that VSI measurement is? On an air data computer (not an AHRS, which has no air data), it still comes from a calibrated static port leak with seconds of lag. Opens up a whole new world of PIOs chasing that indication. Neither a vane nor the dual pitot probe design has that flaw on anywhere near that scale.

Your measurement can only be as good as your worst input data.

Be real careful about differencing noise, as well….GPS velocities are A LOT less accurate than GPS positions, even when the noise is small as it is with working WAAS. Suppressing differencing noise is a solved problem, fairly easy to deal with, but it trades off with increased lag.

Just because you can calculate an answer doesn't mean it is a useful or correct answer. It takes much more than that. Even a perfect indication of a critical approaching stall doesn't do you much good if it tells you about it after you have already stalled.

We are also all speculating on how it actually computes. I'm sure that will all come out in due time.
 
We are also all speculating on how it actually computes. I'm sure that will all come out in due time.

No, not on how it computes. Where it gets its source data from.

With no new hardware, we know what is available to it.

If we wanted to speculate on how they compute, it's likely going to be some variation on a Kalman filter. Which is exactly what it should be.

Personally, I think the "no new hardware" statement is not correct. That Aspen could come up with a good solution has little doubt. Aside from heat and display issues (that PFD is really small), the Evolution is a well designed product, and very useful for a retrofit application. That they could make a new air data "instrument" only by adding a psychic update to their existing system is not consistent with a good solution. They will need a new probe.
 
Will it work in an updraft/downdraft?
 
Will it work in an updraft/downdraft?

how about on a treadmill?

CIRA, a research facility for the Italian space agency, put together the computational algorithm so just maybe it'll work. Aspen says they are going for certification even though there are no cert standards for AOA devices. I suspect the cert will be that none of the software breaks but who knows what they will come up with.
 
Does the Aspen have a stable platform, perhaps using a nine-axis gyro?

If so, then it could know pretty much instantaneous acceleration in any direction.
 
I believe I read somewhere that Aspens do have accelerometers onboard. I have no idea what their purposes are.
 
I believe I read somewhere that Aspens do have accelerometers onboard. I have no idea what their purposes are.

It's in the pilot's guide. The first sentence of section 4.1.1 is: "The Aspen ADAHRS attitude solution uses inputs from its internal three-axis
accelerometers, rate gyros, and magnetometers, supplemented by ram and static air pressure inputs from the aircraft pitot-static system."
 
I don't believe it's gonna work... But not for some of the reasons in this thread.

To get a true honest AOA I would think flight testing and calibration would be make/model specific as well as dependent on what STC's are installed. STOL kits, VG's, gross weight increases (reduced flap limits) would all need careful evaluation.

It has to be, and is, calibrated on the particular airplane it's installed on. STOL kits and all of the other stuff you mention would require a recalibration. But, that's not the problem.

No, not on how it computes. Where it gets its source data from.

With no new hardware, we know what is available to it.

If we wanted to speculate on how they compute, it's likely going to be some variation on a Kalman filter. Which is exactly what it should be.

It's in the pilot's guide. The first sentence of section 4.1.1 is: "The Aspen ADAHRS attitude solution uses inputs from its internal three-axis
accelerometers, rate gyros, and magnetometers, supplemented by ram and static air pressure inputs from the aircraft pitot-static system."

All modern GA glass cockpits use solid-state accelerometers and gyroscopes along with Kalman filtering to do what they do.

Varies from plane to plane though. Even on the same make and model. Also, - think icing.

Icing shouldn't be a problem. As you ice up and you need to pitch up to increase your AoA to compensate, the Aspen can easily sense that you're still traveling in the same direction but you have an increased pitch attitude. That's how it's measuring AoA to begin with.

I would have to disagree with you on this. It has attitude data, speed data, 3D data (WAAS source), so there is no reason why the computer cannot figure out an exact angle of attack... especially when it is calibrated.

It has any data available that a hardware solution would have.

No, it doesn't. The hardware solutions rely on a vane (high-end, like on jets) or a differential pressure sensor. The Aspen does NOT have ANY of the data available that a hardware solution has.

The main problem with how they're apparently doing it is that it cannot correct for vertical air movements.

Will it work in an updraft/downdraft?

NO. And that is the problem.

They can quite easily determine the difference between flight path and where the nose of the aircraft is pointed. That makes for an easy solution in straight and level flight in still air.

They can also easily determine load factor with the onboard accelerometers to account for AoA in non-straight and level flight.

It's the "still air" thing that's the problem. Vertically moving air will result in a different pitch for the same flight path. It's not impossible to calculate this with all of the inputs - Including gross weight and engine power - But those inputs are not available to the Aspen and thus it cannot be correcting for vertically moving air.

It's not worthless, but like any other aircraft system, you do have to understand its limitations.
 
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