As a pilot, what if you destroy a drone?

[John Baker]

So, now that drones are becoming a must have item for almost every government agency, how are they going to affect our airspace?

Are drones now going to be considered police officers like their dogs are?

So your putting along in your little C-150 and you accidentally bump into a drone. Your magical flying skills enable you to safely land on a road, but the drone explodes just behind a hill like in the movies.

Have you just murdered a police officer? Have you interfered with an officer while performing his duties? Are you now a criminal?

What kind of trouble have you found yourself in because the person operating the drone spilled his coffee and was distracted for just a second? Will anyone even know about that part of the story?

Are you now a suspected terrorist because you could not avoid the drone?

-John

Note: I had posted this thread on the SZ when I meant for it to be here. I asked a moderator to move it, but it wasn't. This is such a huge critical issue for each and every one of us, I decided to post it here myself.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Only terrorists don't like drones. Damage a drone and it is off to gitmo with ya

 

[Jaybird180]

Only terrorists don't like drones. Damage a drone and it is off to gitmo with ya

Sounds like that thinking (if you were serious) belongs in the SZ

 

[woodstock]

So your putting along in your little C-150 and you accidentally bump into a drone. Your magical flying skills enable you to safely land on a road, but the drone explodes just behind a hill like in the movies.



.

LOL!!

(extra ! because you have to have five characters...)

 

[MAKG1]

So your putting along in your little C-150 and you accidentally bump into a drone. Your magical flying skills enable you to safely land on a road, but the drone explodes just behind a hill like in the movies.

Might as well use the Force to convince the Men In Black that you're not the droid they're looking for, 'cause it's all fiction anyway.

Have you ever seen a Predator in person? They aren't much smaller than a Cessna 150. You wouldn't stand a chance.

And there are at least some jet drones, including one with a ramjet (i.e., extremely fast). You might as well be talking about having a midair with a missile.

There is no such thing as a mechanical police officer outside of a movie like Robocop. You will have destroyed government equipment and killed yourself. Not likely that the government would prosecute a corpse.

 

[DouglasBader]

So your putting along in your little C-150 and you accidentally bump into a drone. Your magical flying skills enable you to safely land on a road, but the drone explodes just behind a hill like in the movies.

Have you just murdered a police officer?

You've just murdered yourself. Your odds after a mid-air aren't great.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

You've just been murdered by a drone. Your odds after a mid-air aren't great.

FTFY...

 

[Seanaldinho]

What about the smaller drones?

 

[John Baker]

You've just murdered yourself. Your odds after a mid-air aren't great.

I said you have magical flying skills.

-John

 

[John Baker]

FTFY...

What does FTFY mean? I've seen this a bunch of times, but have no clue.

-John

 

[John Baker]

Not likely that the government would prosecute a corpse.

Never underestimate a government employee.

-John

 

[Ghery]

What does FTFY mean? I've seen this a bunch of times, but have no clue.

-John

Fixed That For You. Typically means that someone changed something in the post they quoted for some effect.

 

[MAKG1]

Never underestimate a government employee.

-John

Never take your prejudices seriously.

I work with government employees on a daily basis.

 

[Sac Arrow]

In WWII, the British were able to destroy V1 rockets ("drones") by flying close enough to the wings to disrupt the airflow and flip it to an out of control state.

 

[John Baker]

Never take your prejudices seriously.

I work with government employees on a daily basis.

Wow, that has to be tough. Once in a while is probably OK, but every day? I know I couldn't handle it. You must take pills or something for it.

Me prejudice? Nah, not me.

-John

 

[oldShar]

So, now that drones are becoming a must have item for almost every government agency, how are they going to affect our airspace?


So your putting along in your little C-150 and you accidentally bump into a drone. Your magical flying skills enable you to safely land on a road, but the drone explodes just behind a hill like in the movies.

In a word: You break it, you bought it!

 

[John Baker]

In a word: You break it, you bought it!

Is that true? It does not seem at all fair. The guy sitting at a console driving the drone spills his coffee and loses track of the drone for a few seconds, enough time for you to accidentally bump into it. Then your expected to buy him a new drone? That just seems wrong to me. Especially when you consider his drone probably bent something on your C-150.

-John

 

[ateamer]

As a note, I am not aware of anywhere in our country where a K-9 is a sworn law enforcement officer. There are laws against injuring or killing a police service animal, but they are very clearly distinct from murder and the penalties are vastly less.

 

[John Baker]

As a note, I am not aware of anywhere in our country where a K-9 is a sworn law enforcement officer. There are laws against injuring or killing a police service animal, but they are very clearly distinct from murder and the penalties are vastly less.

I did not know that. From the way they carry on during the evening news about such things, just seemed it was so. Maybe I saw it in a movie.

-John

 

[CMTowner]

In a word: You break it, you bought it!

I would have to argue he already bought it with his tax dollars.

 

[ateamer]

I did not know that. From the way they carry on during the evening news about such things, just seemed it was so. Maybe I saw it in a movie.

-John

If you knew the bond that forms between a handler and his dog, you'd understand. It hurts to lose a K-9 as much as a human partner.

 

[DaleB]

Easy, you just have to make a slight modification to the door on your Cessna...

 

[denverpilot]

More interesting question... Insurance. They're going to have a Field Day in court over whether you can sue a non-pilot, flying a drone in a pop-up TFR that only lasts for, say... An hour... When somebody smacks one.

 

[cirrusmx]

So, now that drones are becoming a must have item for almost every government agency, how are they going to affect our airspace?

Are drones now going to be considered police officers like their dogs are?

So your putting along in your little C-150 and you accidentally bump into a drone. Your magical flying skills enable you to safely land on a road, but the drone explodes just behind a hill like in the movies.

Have you just murdered a police officer? Have you interfered with an officer while performing his duties? Are you now a criminal?

What kind of trouble have you found yourself in because the person operating the drone spilled his coffee and was distracted for just a second? Will anyone even know about that part of the story?

Are you now a suspected terrorist because you could not avoid the drone?

-John

Note: I had posted this thread on the SZ when I meant for it to be here. I asked a moderator to move it, but it wasn't. This is such a huge critical issue for each and every one of us, I decided to post it here myself.

braze yourself, the government is after us!!!! thats seems to be the collective sentiment in this board. If you are law abiding I wouldnt sweat it and or waste time thinking about the feds, gov, police, etc.

 

[Velocity173]

I think the whole "drone" or UAV situation is over blown. They aren't going to be that prevalent in the U.S. like they are in theater. They'll be used for border patrol stuff and the airspace will be restricted accordingly. Odds of hitting one would be slim. As far as the little ones (Raven), well that could possibly be used for surveillance in urban operations but unless your flying below 500 ft over a town you'd be hard pressed to hit one.

 

[John Baker]

Two things I find disturbing with the last two posts.

1: "If you are law abiding I wouldn't sweat it and or waste time thinking about the feds, gov, police, etc."

We have way too many laws for anyone to be "law abiding", that is an impossibility even for a law professor or a SC justice. That is saying to not worry about the laws until you yourself are blindsided by them. As long as they do not affect you, it is OK to have them all?

2: "They'll be used for border patrol stuff and the airspace will be restricted accordingly."

So this can be interpreted as it is the pop up TFRs that will bite us more than the drones will. Does this mean that even for the shortest VFR flight around your neighborhood, you had better get a full briefing from now on? Is weekend flying now a major event?

I was joking when I started this thread, but it is now raising some not so funny issues.

-John

 

[Velocity173]

Two things I find disturbing with the last two posts.

1: "If you are law abiding I wouldn't sweat it and or waste time thinking about the feds, gov, police, etc."

We have way too many laws for anyone to be "law abiding", that is an impossibility even for a law professor or a SC justice. That is saying to not worry about the laws until you yourself are blindsided by them. As long as they do not affect you, it is OK to have them all?

2: "They'll be used for border patrol stuff and the airspace will be restricted accordingly."

So this can be interpreted as it is the pop up TFRs that will bite us more than the drones will. Does this mean that even for the shortest VFR flight around your neighborhood, you had better get a full briefing from now on? Is weekend flying now a major event?

I was joking when I started this thread, but it is now raising some not so funny issues.

-John

First let me begin by saying I'm in no way supporting UAVs. I almost had a midair with a Reaper in Afghanistan. Anything that gets humans out of the envelope I'm not in favor of. Can't stand the things.

Having said that, UAVs are the wave of the future. It's that simple. Generals love them in theater and now our govt agencies in the States are learning their value. Think about the functions they would perform here. They can loiter over an area for hours at a time without being seen or heard. They can send real time information to law enforcement or other govt agencies. They cost a fraction of the amount to send a manned aircraft to do the sames thing.When you can have something do the job of a manned aircraft but at less cost and not putting a crew in harms way it'll almost always win.

Air & Space had a great article about 8 mths back. I actually wrote in a rebuttal and they published it in the letters section along with an A-10 pilot. He came from a point of failability of a UAV while mine was from the sad future of manned aviation. Fact if we are being replaced at a steady pace. My airframe (UH-60) can now be operated fullly unmanned. Sikorsky has already demonstrated an unmanned dust landing. They are in the planning of doing a complete air assault route and landing unmanned. Look at fighter aviation. If you can have a UCAV that can pull 12gs compare to our guys pulling 9, well it won't be long until they're out of the cockpit as well. All of this is off topic but read the article and you'll be amazed at the advances in unmanned aviation. I think you'll always have some form of manned military flight but a lot of combat roles will be replaced.

As I said though these UAVs won't have a major impact on our freedom of flight. Most military UAVs are operated in our present restricted airspace anyway so unless you're on a border flight you should be good. I'm not sure if they'd be allowed to operate them in MOAs but as of now I haven't seen that. Fact is UAVs are here to stay and we just have to learn to get along with them.

 

[MAKG1]

There are currently "special military activity" zones distinct from any special use airspace including MOAs, to support UAV operations, far from the border. There is one north of Los Angeles that's a big obstacle due to its extent from Edwards all the way to the coast. This one happens to be associated with an MTR, but the zone is much larger than that would imply.

These zones are charted on sectionals as gray crosshatched boundaries, with a black text box telling you to contact a specific FSS or Tracon.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

so unless you're on a border flight you should be good.

So, as someone based at an airport 2 miles from the border, I'm screwed?

 

[Jaybird180]

You didn't know?!?!?!

 

[Velocity173]

So, as someone based at an airport 2 miles from the border, I'm screwed?

Ha! Ha! Well looks like you're border of Canada....you're good. No reason to worry about Canucks crossing the border. As far as the guys in Cali, well they're screwed!

 

[John Baker]

First let me begin by saying I'm in no way supporting UAVs. I almost had a midair with a Reaper in Afghanistan. Anything that gets humans out of the envelope I'm not in favor of. Can't stand the things.

Having said that, UAVs are the wave of the future. It's that simple. Generals love them in theater and now our govt agencies in the States are learning their value. Think about the functions they would perform here. They can loiter over an area for hours at a time without being seen or heard. They can send real time information to law enforcement or other govt agencies. They cost a fraction of the amount to send a manned aircraft to do the sames thing.When you can have something do the job of a manned aircraft but at less cost and not putting a crew in harms way it'll almost always win.

Air & Space had a great article about 8 mths back. I actually wrote in a rebuttal and they published it in the letters section along with an A-10 pilot. He came from a point of failability of a UAV while mine was from the sad future of manned aviation. Fact if we are being replaced at a steady pace. My airframe (UH-60) can now be operated fullly unmanned. Sikorsky has already demonstrated an unmanned dust landing. They are in the planning of doing a complete air assault route and landing unmanned. Look at fighter aviation. If you can have a UCAV that can pull 12gs compare to our guys pulling 9, well it won't be long until they're out of the cockpit as well. All of this is off topic but read the article and you'll be amazed at the advances in unmanned aviation. I think you'll always have some form of manned military flight but a lot of combat roles will be replaced.

As I said though these UAVs won't have a major impact on our freedom of flight. Most military UAVs are operated in our present restricted airspace anyway so unless you're on a border flight you should be good. I'm not sure if they'd be allowed to operate them in MOAs but as of now I haven't seen that. Fact is UAVs are here to stay and we just have to learn to get along with them.

I wrote a post about three or four years ago here on POA suggesting much the same thoughts, that we are rapidly gravitating toward mostly pilotless aircraft, including the cattle cars we're all so fond of.

Few people agreed with me at the time, saying pretty much that I was spewing nonsense. Not so many naysayers now.

-John

 

[Jaybird180]

I wrote a post about three or four years ago here on POA suggesting much the same thoughts, that we are rapidly gravitating toward mostly pilotless aircraft, including the cattle cars we're all so fond of.

Few people agreed with me at the time, saying pretty much that I was spewing nonsense. Not so many naysayers now.

-John

John, it's much more fun when you include a link to the old thread

 

[MAKG1]

Few people agreed with me at the time, saying pretty much that I was spewing nonsense. Not so many naysayers now.

I don't agree with you now.

Pilotless aircraft are useful for a number of purposes, but hauling meat isn't one of them. There is a vast difference between a flight where the hardware is expendable and a CFIT accident is annoying and expensive, but not beyond that, and a man-rated robotic flight. The latter will never be as safe as a thinking human pilot, and pilotless airliners are far into the future at the earliest.

 

[denverpilot]

I wrote a post about three or four years ago here on POA suggesting much the same thoughts, that we are rapidly gravitating toward mostly pilotless aircraft, including the cattle cars we're all so fond of.

Few people agreed with me at the time, saying pretty much that I was spewing nonsense. Not so many naysayers now.

It'll take a PR event where all the engineers and bosses climb aboard the thing and let it fly them somewhere to convince the flying public to trust it.

I don't see that happening until very late in my lifetime, if at all.

 

[Sac Arrow]

It'll take a PR event where all the engineers and bosses climb aboard the thing and let it fly them somewhere to convince the flying public to trust it.

I don't see that happening until very late in my lifetime, if at all.

I suppose I would be open to trying it near the end of my lifetime.

 

[Skip Miller]

and pilotless airliners are far into the future at the earliest.

One casualty in a pilotless airliner (regardless of cause) would be the end of them. The press would scream loudly that a pilot on board could have saved the day, and the marketing departments would start up with "Fly (airline name), and know that there is a real pilot in command up front". or some such. Bye Bye, pilotless airliners.

A drone autopilot can't ask "What would Sully do?"

-Skip

 

[fgcason]

It'll take a PR event where all the engineers and bosses climb aboard the thing and let it fly them somewhere to convince the flying public to trust it.

I don't see that happening until very late in my lifetime, if at all.

A decent autopilot with some extra programming can go from A to B without incident.

I'm still waiting for the computer that can land the airplane off airport without any predetermined conditions beyond "oopsie the engine just quit, there is no runway or predetermined landing area within gliding range, have a nice day."

 

[Jaybird180]

A decent autopilot with some extra programming can go from A to B without incident.

I'm still waiting for the computer that can land the airplane off airport without any predetermined conditions beyond "oopsie the engine just quit, there is no runway or predetermined landing area within gliding range, have a nice day."

Engines don't quit in jetliners

 

[Sportsman]

@velocity173. I want a pilot in the UH-60 doing Close Air Support, period. Pre planned strike with distance to friendliest? Sure let the drone do it.