ARRRGH Plane grounded again!!

[SCAirborne]

Well it's been awhile since I posted anything but I do troll this site a lot... Has anyone ran into this experience? I've been cleared for solo for almost 4 months and actually logged a few 100 milers but for the last 3 months every dang plane at my FBO has been grounded for one reason or another.... I guess I'm not really asking advice but more venting frustration. So close to getting my ticket but still so far away... Now just this weekend my Saturday and Sunday flight has been scrubbed. I know the fleet is aged and not getting any newer but arrgh does this stink. I know I'm lucky that the plane didn't sustain any issues while I've been flying (if there is a bright side to this) but flying once a month on average I almost feel a bit rusty when I finally do get up. Anyways safe flying to those out there and wish me luck. It will be one year since I started my training this August so it's been a long ride.

 

[rtk11]

Any chance of checking with your flight instructor to see if there are alternate aircraft in the immediate area that you can rent to build solo time? I'm a student (almost to solo), but I feel "rusty" if I haven't flow in 2 weeks... let alone a month.

 

[MAKG1]

It sucks, but it happens. Part of learning to fly is learning to be honest with yourself about when it isn't safe.

The CAP airplane I'd like to fly has been down for two weeks now fixing things that should have been fixed in its very recent annual.

Believe me, it's a LOT worse when you DID fly the airplane and THEN someone discovers the alternator bolt unsecured and backing off, the oil pressure regulator improperly repaired (and leaking overboard), the oil filter cracked, and the ring gear broken. The only symptom that airplane had shown was that it went from not losing oil to losing 1 quart in 5 hours, an amount that only raised our eyebrows because it was a change. Makes me really glad I made that call. It could have worsened rather suddenly. Now, the lesson is that I need to look under the cowling when accepting an aircraft back from annual.

As for renting elsewhere, that seems unlikely for a first solo, at least without a checkout. Dual, sure. I've done that, and it's nice. But the instructor had to be PIC to pull that off (it was another club where he was a member). Butt ugly airplane, that worked really nicely.

 

[steingar]

Why I bought my own airplane to learn in.

 

[MAKG1]

Why I bought my own airplane to learn in.

Those break, too.

And go into annual.

 

[Matthew]

Plenty of times I was training both planes I was checked out for solo were down at the same time. Oil change in one, 100-hr in the other. Annual in one, flat tire in the other. Alternator in one, radio in the other. Weather one day, CFI schedule conflict another day. Sinus problems one day, other renters booked both planes the other.

It happens. The biggest thing I learned from flying was patience.

 

[simtech]

Those break, too.

And go into annual.

While yes I agree, as my plane has left me stranded once, I believe rentals are worse though. I say that because people don't treat them like they are theirs. Personal planes are usually cleaner and up kept a lot better than a rental. I know exactly how my plane was last flown. I hated renting and not know what the yahoo before did or found but never reported. Oh and I can get off of work at midnight, drive to the airport and fly. Couldn't do that renting. But that's a different topic.

 

[MAKG1]

While yes I agree, as my plane has left me stranded once, I believe rentals are worse though. I say that because people don't treat them like they are theirs. Personal planes are usually cleaner and up kept a lot better than a rental. I know exactly how my plane was last flown. I hated renting and not know what the yahoo before did or found but never reported. Oh and I can get off of work at midnight, drive to the airport and fly. Couldn't do that renting. But that's a different topic.

It varies.

The club I'm renting from now is owned by two A&Ps, and they keep these things in pretty good shape (and rather well equipped). They also own most of the planes.

The last one did mostly leasebacks and repairs were done by third parties. Things tended to get deferred. The big stuff usually got dealt with, but things not needed for day VFR got deferred. It sucked trying to get a night flight in when all the aircraft had dead nav or panel lights.

 

[uncreative]

Welcome to the world of rental planes. I've been able to mitigate this by being checked out at 4 different FBOs, but its just part of the experience.

 

[OkieAviator]

Those break, too.

And go into annual.

I've never been stranded but I've had my fair share of things break. Most of it was due to the plane only flying about 5 hours the previous 2 years before we bought it. Maybe 100 hours the 10 years before that.

Right now the taxi and landing light bulbs need replaced and the EGT isn't working.... So next oil change (10 hours) we will change the bulbs and trouble shoot the EGT.

 

[frfly172]

Bought my own aircraft,and stayed friendly with the FBO if my aircraft was down for maintenance had option to rent.

 

[jordane93]

It happens. Nothing you can do about maintenance.

 

[SbestCFII]

While yes I agree, as my plane has left me stranded once, I believe rentals are worse though. I say that because people don't treat them like they are theirs. Personal planes are usually cleaner and up kept a lot better than a rental. I know exactly how my plane was last flown. I hated renting and not know what the yahoo before did or found but never reported. Oh and I can get off of work at midnight, drive to the airport and fly. Couldn't do that renting. But that's a different topic.

I made the mistake of letting an acquaintance of mine use my plane to give primary instruction while I was on deployment. After annual I had to cut it off because I was left with over 3K in the hole for excess maintenance while my acquaintance made money and my A&P commented on how dirty the plane was being left. No offer to make any of it up. I was willing to continue for a net-zero maintenance arrangement (i.e. me just breaking even), but they wouldn't take any responsibility for it. So no more plane. I felt really sorry for his students, but I can't subsidize someone else's use of my plane while they're profiting from it, as well as my loss of value. No good deeds and all that.

If your flight school can't maintain at least one airworthy plane on a consistent basis, then you should go somewhere else to finish up. The delays inflate the time you'll need to fly to rebuild the skills you lose being idle and that profits them while screwing you over. That's a crap operation. and you should take your business somewhere else.

 

[Dr. O]

Just a comment to the OP.
Vent away but do not think that owning one will end your problems - they will just be beginning.
I agree with Scott that it sounds like a different FBO might be a better route for you. If the man cannot be bothered to keep his income generating machine operating likely he is cutting a lot of corners. You might not want to be involved when the crash comes.
Other options are a club or a multi-partner ownership.
Like real estate, your location is the crucial detail.

 

[Henning]

While yes I agree, as my plane has left me stranded once, I believe rentals are worse though. I say that because people don't treat them like they are theirs. Personal planes are usually cleaner and up kept a lot better than a rental. I know exactly how my plane was last flown. I hated renting and not know what the yahoo before did or found but never reported. Oh and I can get off of work at midnight, drive to the airport and fly. Couldn't do that renting. But that's a different topic.

Really, this issue can go both ways, it varies by the operation and owner. The sad thing is that while most flight schools used to have fleets of planes so one or two down at a time didn't make much difference, now pretty much the only operations with large fleets are expensive 141 schools. When I trained in Long Beach in the early 90s there were over a dozen planes, and if you did a lesson in any of them, you were checked out to use any of the type in the fleet. Most of us did the Cross Countries in HP and Complex planes to gain the endorsements and access to those planes during PP since the time/cost differential on a per mile basis was basically a wash. Combine that with a half a dozen instructors always there, the ratio of scrubbed flights/planned flights was extremely low especially given SoCal weather. Back then you could find operations like that in most markets, now there are a handful across the country outside the 141 programs.. The advantage to ownership is that it greatly reduces the "surprise" cancellations, but it certainly doesn't eliminate them.

 

[StinkBug]

Everyone here seems to be going on the assumption that the owner isn't properly maintaining their planes, but the way I read the OP it sounds like he's just been unlucky with scheduling planes that have needed maintenance. There is a difference. If the planes are getting used a lot then they will need to be fixed here and there. With the combination of your schedule, and availability of planes that aren't being used by other people you can simply get unlucky enough to have your scheduled flights end up on the one day when a plane has an issue. If it's flying 100hrs a month it's not unreasonable for you to expect it to be in maintenance at least a couple days a month. If you happen to schedule on one of those couple days, well that sucks, but it's not exactly an unreasonable amount of down time overall.

Are the planes really down for maintenance all the time, or have you just drawn the short straw in the schedule a few times? Hard to tell from the first post. It's easy to get the idea that they are always broken when you have it happen a few times, but if they are up and running the majority of the time when you're not there it's just your timing.

As for owning, yes there will still be maintenance, but not as often. If you're the only one flying the plane and you're taking care of it the trips to the A&P are gonna be a lot less frequent. Lets say a plane needs some kind of maintenance every 25 hours. For a plane being flown 5-8 hours a day that's once a week at a minimum. For one pilot using one plane that might be once every 3 months. Also there is the rental factor, if you own it you care for it. I've put over 150 hours on my Mooney since buying it in January and have only done oil changes and one tire replacement. 6 months and it hasn't spent the night in the maintenance hangar yet.

 

[James331]

If your flight school can't maintain at least one airworthy plane on a consistent basis, then you should go somewhere else to finish up. The delays inflate the time you'll need to fly to rebuild the skills you lose being idle and that profits them while screwing you over. That's a crap operation. and you should take your business somewhere else.

How many hours of dual given do you have?

That's terrible advice, there are plenty of small flight schools, which are often better deals too, with only one or two planes, stuff happens, one could be in for annual and the other could have a snag, it's called aviation, and the fact that they are working on the aircraft tells me they are concerned with keeping aircraft airworthy.

Switching CFIs and aircraft right now, let alone switching entire schools, guessing this guy is going to burn a few hours (at least) just proving to the new CFI he's ready for his ride.

One thing most CFIs can agree on is switching CFIs right before a checkride or solo is a great way for a student to waste money.

Plus flight school planes tend to be in BETTER condition than private planes, remember condition and paint and upholstery are two different things. A flight school plane can easily fly 1,000hrs a year vs. Grandpa Bo flying what 70-150hrs a year. The CFIs who fly with students log more hours a month and are more proficient than most VFR PPLs, I could go on.

 

[StinkBug]

there are plenty of small flight schools, which are often better deals too, with only one or two planes, stuff happens, one could be in for annual and the other could have a snag, it's called aviation,

Exactly.

My club has dozens of planes, but also a lot of members. When I was using their planes, often the plane I was signed up to fly was the only one available. Sometimes yours is the one that goes down, and all the others are taken even when there are a lot of planes. That's not a sign of poor maintenance.

 

[AKBill]

Every situation is different/unique. During my initial fight training my work moved me to 3 different locations in 3 different states.

I finished in Spearfish, SD. Took 50 hours, 6 flight instructors and almost 18 months to get my PPL.

Stick with it, it will work out.

 

[SbestCFII]

How many hours of dual given do you have?

That's terrible advice, there are plenty of small flight schools, which are often better deals too, with only one or two planes, stuff happens, one could be in for annual and the other could have a snag, it's called aviation, and the fact that they are working on the aircraft tells me they are concerned with keeping aircraft airworthy.

Switching CFIs and aircraft right now, let alone switching entire schools, guessing this guy is going to burn a few hours (at least) just proving to the new CFI he's ready for his ride.

One thing most CFIs can agree on is switching CFIs right before a checkride or solo is a great way for a student to waste money.

Plus flight school planes tend to be in BETTER condition than private planes, remember condition and paint and upholstery are two different things. A flight school plane can easily fly 1,000hrs a year vs. Grandpa Bo flying what 70-150hrs a year. The CFIs who fly with students log more hours a month and are more proficient than most VFR PPLs, I could go on.

Past experience is usually a fair predictor of future performance. It could like you've been having consistent problems. If you're patient and don't mind the uncertainty, you can stick with this school and it might work out. But based on your experience to date, what do you think will happen?

 

[steingar]

Those break, too.

Not as often, since the aircraft was flown carefully. And I controlled the maintenance.

And go into annual.

Annual on a little trainer like that takes about a day if done properly.

 

[Henning]

Not as often, since the aircraft was flown carefully. And I controlled the maintenance.

Annual on a little trainer like that takes about a day if done properly.

Maintenance philosophy is what determines the second sentence. If the maintenance philosophy of the operator is to deal with all the squawks as they appear, then yes, the annual/100hr inspections on a 152 or such are indeed a one day event. If the maintenance philosophy is to defer everything to the major maintenance periods, then they often go over, especially if the ordering of parts is also deferred until after it gets started. Some people handle maintenance more time efficiently than others.

 

[winrose46]

Why I bought my own airplane to learn in.

Unfortunately two weeks ago my bonanza alternator decided not to work and this weekend, my C 172 right break line leaked. Having your own plane does not avoid this grounded issue.

 

[steingar]

Unfortunately two weeks ago my bonanza alternator decided not to work and this weekend, my C 172 right break line leaked. Having your own plane does not avoid this grounded issue.

Not entirely. But I bet you have far more access to your aircraft than most renters.

 

[winrose46]

Yes, I have only missed two weekends because of plane availability within the past 1.5 years. What I do not miss is having a rental plane with poor maintenance.