Arrival Plates purpose

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FelipeNJ32

Filing Flight Plan
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FelipeNJ
Hello

Background:
I am currently self studying for my PPL knowledge test and I know this topic isn't included "arrival plates"; side note I do not have a CFI yet and will look for one after completing knowledge test. I was reviewing RNAV GPS approach plates, something I practiced for fun on a simulator and I also saw RNAV Arrival plates...

Inquiry:
Arrival plates make little sense to me as (all the ones i saw) ask a person to fly across an entire state to arrive to the airport. I suppose this is IFR related which isn't something i need to learn right now but hate to have this confusion in my head for possibly months or a year without resolution. My understanding is for IFR ATC instructs you where to fly and how to arrive to airport, therefore arrival plate makes little sense to me. Also the one i see for KHGR starts at the south and goes north, but if i'm north of airport why fly the arrival plate that starts in the deep south of maryland. (way out of the way...) .
 
Consider how many instructions ATC would have to give each airplane to fly the same route. Simply providing a clearance to fly an arrival eliminates a lot of useless words on the radio.
 
Arrivals also create a standard traffic flow to make ATCs job of sequencing arrivals into a busy airport a bit easier.
 
FelipeNJ32 said:
Hello

Background:
I am currently self studying for my PPL knowledge test and I know this topic isn't included "arrival plates"; side note I do not have a CFI yet and will look for one after completing knowledge test. I was reviewing RNAV GPS approach plates, something I practiced for fun on a simulator and I also saw RNAV Arrival plates...

Inquiry:
Arrival plates make little sense to me as (all the ones i saw) ask a person to fly across an entire state to arrive to the airport. I suppose this is IFR related which isn't something i need to learn right now but hate to have this confusion in my head for possibly months or a year without resolution. My understanding is for IFR ATC instructs you where to fly and how to arrive to airport, therefore arrival plate makes little sense to me. Also the one i see for KHGR starts at the south and goes north, but if i'm north of airport why fly the arrival plate that starts in the deep south of maryland. (way out of the way...) .
Click to expand...
One piece of the puzzle is that a lot of the published arrivals are mainly used by airliners. Since many of them fly much higher and faster, they tend to need a much larger "pattern" to get positioned on the final approach than those of us who fly small piston airplanes.
 
FelipeNJ32 said:
Hello

Background:
I am currently self studying for my PPL knowledge test and I know this topic isn't included "arrival plates"; side note I do not have a CFI yet and will look for one after completing knowledge test. I was reviewing RNAV GPS approach plates, something I practiced for fun on a simulator and I also saw RNAV Arrival plates...

Inquiry:
Arrival plates make little sense to me as (all the ones i saw) ask a person to fly across an entire state to arrive to the airport. I suppose this is IFR related which isn't something i need to learn right now but hate to have this confusion in my head for possibly months or a year without resolution. My understanding is for IFR ATC instructs you where to fly and how to arrive to airport, therefore arrival plate makes little sense to me. Also the one i see for KHGR starts at the south and goes north, but if i'm north of airport why fly the arrival plate that starts in the deep south of maryland. (way out of the way...) .
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Like said above, it reduces verbiage and sets a flow of traffic to channel, for lack of a better word, traffic in a way to avoid other flows of traffic. Tristan three arrival is a whole lot easier to say than “via LORRA, DORRN, PERKN, JOHOF, TRSTN” etc. And not have to say “descend and maintain[altitude]” after each of those fixes because the pilot can follow the altitudes on the plates.(you’ll get a lecture on they’re supposed to be called ‘charts’ sooner or later.). As far as KHGR only having this one STAR, look up the other airports this STAR serves, there are many. Many of them have more than just this Arrival serving them, from other directions. Exactly why others don’t serve HGR, I can’t say for absolutely sure. But you will notice the TRSTN THREE takes airplanes from the South around the Washington Tri Area Class B airspace. Coming from other directions into HGR probably doesn’t require complex routings so they didn’t make Arrivals for it.
 
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Let’s start with the basics on an airport one is heading to, like runway designations, field elevation and CTAF or tower frequency.

If just pre-study for PP, no sense getting bogged down with IFR rules.
 
Putting it as simple as possible, an arrival chart puts all the jets and turboprops through a 'gate' or fix and then they all fly a published route afterwards so ATC can easily space them out for the main airport or one of it's satellite airports. Jets at 30,000' to 40,000' need about 75 to 100 miles for a normal descent. The clearance would be to the fix you filled, and then "cleared for the TINEY1 arrival, cross WXYZ at and maintain 12,000'".
And no, you wouldn't fly the arrival from the south if you were actually coming in from the north to HGR. And yes, these are for IFR traffic, airlines and corporate both. And no, you in your small Skyhawk type of plane won't be assigned one of the arrivals.
Along the coasts are a little different, and special situations too, but think of say Kansas City in the middle of the country. Lets just say they have 4 arrivals, one from the north, south, east and west. If you're arriving from the NE, you would either file one of the STARS from the east or north, or, ATC might assign one for you, it may not be the one you filed, their choice.
ATC can space and sequence the arrivals more easily from 4 arrival routes than if planes were arriving from 10 different directions all at once.

You should be concentrating on the things you NEED to know for your upcoming written and not on IFR things. But if you want to, have at it.
 
Palmpilot said:
One piece of the puzzle is that a lot of the published arrivals are mainly used by airliners. Since many of them fly much higher and faster, they tend to need a much larger "pattern" to get positioned on the final approach than those of us who fly small piston airplanes.
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^^^^ That.

I’ve had my instrument rating for 8 years now, live and fly out of the San Francisco Bay area with many flights to the busy Los Angeles area. I almost always file IFR on x-country flights, and always when flying to LA. In that time, I’ve been given a grand total of one STAR (Standard Arrival Route). Lots of SIDs, some ODPs, but only one arrival. Not really something one needs to be worrying about when working on the private certificate.
 
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jimhorner said:
^^^^ That.

I’ve had my instrument rating for 8 years now, live and fly out of the San Francisco Bay area with many flights to the busy Los Angeles area. I almost always file IFR on x-country flights, and always when flying to LA. In that time, I’ve been given a grand total of one STAR (Standard Arrival Route). Lots of SIDs, some ODPs, but only one arrival. Not really something one needs to be worrying about when working on the private certificate.
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Some places use arrivals more than others. I almost always get an arrival procedure going into KFTW (Ft. Worth, TX).
 
Palmpilot said:
One piece of the puzzle is that a lot of the published arrivals are mainly used by airliners. Since many of them fly much higher and faster, they tend to need a much larger "pattern" to get positioned on the final approach than those of us who fly small piston airplanes.
Click to expand...
I've been given arrivals coming into IAD. It's not just the big guys, but they're pretty much limited to the airports the big guys fly to.
 
FelipeNJ32 said:
Hello

Background:
I am currently self studying for my PPL knowledge test and I know this topic isn't included "arrival plates"; side note I do not have a CFI yet and will look for one after completing knowledge test. I was reviewing RNAV GPS approach plates, something I practiced for fun on a simulator and I also saw RNAV Arrival plates...

Inquiry:
Arrival plates make little sense to me as (all the ones i saw) ask a person to fly across an entire state to arrive to the airport. I suppose this is IFR related which isn't something i need to learn right now but hate to have this confusion in my head for possibly months or a year without resolution. My understanding is for IFR ATC instructs you where to fly and how to arrive to airport, therefore arrival plate makes little sense to me. Also the one i see for KHGR starts at the south and goes north, but if i'm north of airport why fly the arrival plate that starts in the deep south of maryland. (way out of the way...) .
Click to expand...

If a standard arrival is given it will be one that is more aligned to your direction of travel. You are not going to be asked to fly to the opposite end of the state and then turn around. More common for GA airplanes is to fly direct to the "gate" and then be radar vectored from there to your destination airport.
 
flyingron said:
I've been given arrivals coming into IAD. It's not just the big guys, but they're pretty much limited to the airports the big guys fly to.
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That's why I said "many" and not "all." For example, I have been assigned the Point Reyes Arrival when flying IFR into Palo Alto from the northwest.
 
Palmpilot said:
That's why I said "many" and not "all." For example, I have been assigned the Point Reyes Arrival when flying IFR into Palo Alto from the northwest.
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The Pt Reyes arrival into San Jose was the one I was given the one time I got an arrival. I was returning on the night time long cross country for my commercial. Didn’t really like being out over the water at night in a single engine plane. In hindsight, I should have negotiated something different.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
jimhorner said:
The Pt Reyes arrival into San Jose was the one I was given the one time I got an arrival. I was returning on the night time long cross country for my commercial. Didn’t really like being out over the water at night in a single engine plane. In hindsight, I should have negotiated something different.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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I share your feelings about that STAR. If I ever have occasion to fly it again, I plan on asking if I can stay above 10,000 until I'm closer to the shore.
 
flyingron said:
I've been given arrivals coming into IAD. It's not just the big guys, but they're pretty much limited to the airports the big guys fly to.
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Although even that has exceptions. Coming into the Norfolk VA area from around RDU, the DRONE arrival is commonly assigned, even to the three nontowered airports southeast of ORF.
 
Thank you all! Finally I now don't have this piece of information in my head that makes no sense. Because of your input I now feel I know the reasoning behind it : - ] .
 
Ask your CFI to spend an hour or so of ground school about IFR plates and procedures are and how they work. It was like hearing Greek over the radio and all I knew was that it did not pertain to me...but had no idea what they were talking about when blurting out clearances and instructions to others when I was learning. Plates also have a wealth of information that is valuable to VFR pilots...but even learning about some the basics is helpful IMO.
 
Shawn said:
Ask your CFI to spend an hour or so of ground school about IFR plates and procedures are and how they work. It was like hearing Greek over the radio and all I knew was that it did not pertain to me...but had no idea what they were talking about when blurting out clearances and instructions to others when I was learning. Plates also have a wealth of information that is valuable to VFR pilots...but even learning about some the basics is helpful IMO.
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Having a general idea where the instrument approach fixes for your home airport is also useful, because pilots flying the approach (including for practice) will sometimes inconsiderately say they are "over the WATSIT fix for the GPS approach" instead of "10 miles southwest, straight-in runway 5." Knowing which fixes are which direction from your airport can help you decipher the code and know where to look for the traffic. This should not be a focus of learning for the OP at this point, but it is something to be aware of as an easy reference to kill off some curiosity later on.
 
FelipeNJ32 said:
Hello

Background:
I am currently self studying for my PPL knowledge test and I know this topic isn't included "arrival plates"; side note I do not have a CFI yet and will look for one after completing knowledge test. I was reviewing RNAV GPS approach plates, something I practiced for fun on a simulator and I also saw RNAV Arrival plates...

Inquiry:
Arrival plates make little sense to me as (all the ones i saw) ask a person to fly across an entire state to arrive to the airport. I suppose this is IFR related which isn't something i need to learn right now but hate to have this confusion in my head for possibly months or a year without resolution. My understanding is for IFR ATC instructs you where to fly and how to arrive to airport, therefore arrival plate makes little sense to me. Also the one i see for KHGR starts at the south and goes north, but if i'm north of airport why fly the arrival plate that starts in the deep south of maryland. (way out of the way...) .
Click to expand...

You are still a student pilot flying VFR. Ditch all of the arrival plates you currently own* and concentrate on the certificate you are training for. *Keep the ones you use as a source of frequencies if you feel the need, but remember that all of those frequencies are listed under Communication in the Chart Supplement listing for a given airport. Do not let yourself be distracted from your goal by peripheral information.
 
Arrivals simplify planning and flying; we can brief it and by doing so both pilots know what to expect and we can catch mistakes. Usually atc will just say “descent via...” arrival name and unless we are vectored, it’s simple. That’s for the airline world. Never did one in part 91 flying, but have done some SIDS. Apparently i won’t be doing arrivals for everyone years starting next month.
 
bobmrg said:
You are still a student pilot flying VFR. Ditch all of the arrival plates you currently own* and concentrate on the certificate you are training for. *Keep the ones you use as a source of frequencies if you feel the need, but remember that all of those frequencies are listed under Communication in the Chart Supplement listing for a given airport. Do not let yourself be distracted from your goal by peripheral information.
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Very good point. STARs are rarely used by GA pilots anyways even under IFR, so as a student pilot this is not something you need to be concerned at the moment.
 
I have gotten them in my lowly A36 . The controller just assigned altitudes rather than the flight levels called out in the procedure. They just make a convenient chain of waypoints for the controller to assign so you stay out of the way of other traffic in the area covered by the STAR. If you notice, the TRSTN arrival loops all the traffic to HGR and a gaggle of GA airports west of DC around Dulles.

And I agree with Bob, at your current stage in training, they dont matter much. Once you advance to instrument training, your instructor should go over them with you.
 
I agree that it's good to focus on what matters, but I also believe that curiosity is a good thing for a student pilot to have.
 
It's really just a way for ATC to get aircraft on a known, pre-planned route and make it easier to sequence them onto approaches in busy areas.

They're rarely used for small airplanes. I've gotten them twice in my Mooney, both times going into the Houston, TX (Bluebell) area. Other than that, even flying to places like BWI and New Orleans, I haven't gotten them. There's not a lot of crowded airspace below 10,000 feet outside of the Bravos. ;)

On the other hand, I fly out of Milwaukee for work in turbine-powered aircraft. If we're coming from anywhere on the northern half of the compass, we'll just get sent to one of MKE's arrival fixes (BAE, BRAVE, LYSTR, etc) as we're not going to be in anyone's way on the way down. If we're coming from the south, we'll generally be on the GOPAC2 arrival, which keeps us out of the way of all the traffic going into O'Hare as we cross the final approaches into O'Hare as we're descending from 24,000 (at LEEDN) to 17,000 feet (at MUMPR); if ORD is landing to the east they'd be crossing under us around 6,000 feet.

So, an arrival plate is basically showing you as a pilot how to execute a route that the FAA has pre-planned to allow ATC to easily sequence and separate aircraft that are descending into a particular area from other heavily traveled aircraft routes. Hope that makes sense!
 
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