Army rotary aviation

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4RNB

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4RNB
I’ve been chatting a bit with a guy that relates USArmy history, in the reserves, rotary AP mechanic. His unit was disbanded or reassigned, reason given was the army was getting rid of all reserve helicopter units.

Same person has another job, one in which he can’t talk much about, perhaps drone based on military contracts. He relates that some of the military involvement in other conflicts might be limited or scaled back because a simple drone can take out a helicopter carrying many men with ease.

Can anyone offer insight or opinion on this further? Is this happening in other branches also? Won’t this impact the civilian market. I’m thinking the military trains all the medical/news/police etc rotary wing pilots.

Thanks
 
4RNB said:
I’ve been chatting a bit with a guy that relates USArmy history, in the reserves, rotary AP mechanic. His unit was disbanded or reassigned, reason given was the army was getting rid of all reserve helicopter units.

Same person has another job, one in which he can’t talk much about, perhaps drone based on military contracts. He relates that some of the military involvement in other conflicts might be limited or scaled back because a simple drone can take out a helicopter carrying many men with ease.

Can anyone offer insight or opinion on this further? Is this happening in other branches also? Won’t this impact the civilian market. I’m thinking the military trains all the medical/news/police etc rotary wing pilots.

Thanks
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Well it’s true, the Reserves are / have dissolved their entire helicopter program. Active Army essentially fired over 6,500 pilots and crew chiefs last year. Same reason why their Future Attack Recon Aircraft was cancelled two years ago. The Army believes they can meet the challenge of future conflicts with a heavy emphasis on drones.
 
I have no expertise on it just. SGOTI thinking I can see drones taking over much of the attack and maybe even defensive rolls of rotary wing which may account for the scaling back. But I don't much see drones taking over moving troups and heavier equipment.

Brian
 
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Don’t know if it’s related, but the army appeared to be the first to want to totally privatize training.

I can see drones edging out attack helos like they’re likely gonna edge out fighters… but not troop transport or rescue I wouldn’t think.

It’s a whole new world, hard to say.

Thinking one more step ahead… seems pointless to send drones after drones… makes more sense to send drones after drone operators or deployers. Makes my head hurt…
 
Velocity173 said:
Well it’s true, the Reserves are / have dissolved their entire helicopter program. Active Army essentially fired over 6,500 pilots and crew chiefs last year. Same reason why their Future Attack Recon Aircraft was cancelled two years ago. The Army believes they can meet the challenge of future conflicts with a heavy emphasis on drones.
Click to expand...
I didn't know the US Army Reserve had a helicopter program. How is the National Guard helicopter program being affected?
 
Flymy47 said:
I love the guys who "can't talk about what I do".
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The classified programs I worked had cover stories. Rather than saying, “I can’t tell you what I do” we were to relate the cover story. Cover stories were close enough to truth to let us discuss needs and specifications with suppliers while obscuring top level classified system parameters and applications.

Guys that just say “I can’t tell you” are probably blowing smoke.
 
jnmeade said:
I didn't know the US Army Reserve had a helicopter program. How is the National Guard helicopter program being affected?
Click to expand...
Oh yeah. A lot of people in the Reserves scrambling for jobs right now. It’s a mess. I haven’t heard anything about NG cut backs.

www.military.com

The Army Reserve Is Gutting Aviation Units. Thousands of Soldiers Are Being Left in the Lurch.

Thousands of Army Reserve soldiers are being forced to scramble for new assignments after the service abruptly ordered the dismantling of its helicopter units, a sweeping move that has caught commanders off guard and upended aviation operations across the
www.military.com www.military.com
 
It’s a bit off topic questioning the employment of the can’t talk about what I do. But I get the comments, there are many BSers and hints of stolen valor types.

I am in a class that is aviation related.
Dude said who he worked for.
Instructor knew the company. Instructor commented that he prolly could not talk about what he did b/c everyone else that came from that employer could not say. Instructor has a FULL complement of R/C stuff and some understanding of using rotax engines flying one way…
Classmate said that officially he works on blah blah blah (I think versions of helicopters)

My other teammate works for general dynamics on submarines…
 
In the corporate world, "I can't talk about what I do" is usually from those who really can't talk about their job because you can't talk about something that doesn't exist. They drink coffee most of the day and wonder around the office every hour on the hour. Or take the spec sheets from the engineers and give them to the developers. Because they are a people person. Now, where's my stapler.... :biggrin:
 
The can’t talk about it guy, is like the post Vietnam Joke we all endured for years, when somebody found out you were in Aviation and flew Huey’s and Cobras…”There were approximately 5000 Special Operators in the whole Vietnam war and I have met all 50,000 of them” …. Right now NG aviation units seem stable…more political involved and in reality have always done the heavy lifting in reserve component Aviation, but doubtful you will see any expansion. Drones are like smart RPG’s the reality they would cause a significant problem with little ability to mitigate in my opinion.
 
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Flymy47 said:
I love the guys who "can't talk about what I do".
Click to expand...
iu
 
What’s interesting is the Army is fielding the MV-75 much sooner (2027) than originally planned and that’s a manned platform. I think their plan is troop transport for that and cargo in the new UAV Black Hawk. That’ll lessen the need for pilots and crew chiefs. Safe to say the Apache community is safe but I don’t see a future manned attack replacement for it.
 
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Velocity173 said:
Safe to say the Apache community is safe but I don’t see a future manned attack replacement in its future.
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Agreed. Partly because the Army mis-managed and doomed the Comanche program back in the '90s. The Army is terrible at running large development programs.
 
Half Fast said:
Guys that just say “I can’t tell you” are probably blowing smoke.
Click to expand...

A while back in my career I was working with three T1 contractors at the same time, and the story from each was “We’re building a satellite that collects and analyses signals.” That’s all they would ever say, but based on the customers, delivery dates, and flight dates I was able to figure out what the product likely was.
 
WDD said:
In the corporate world, "I can't talk about what I do" is usually from those who really can't talk about their job because you can't talk about something that doesn't exist. They drink coffee most of the day and wonder around the office every hour on the hour. Or take the spec sheets from the engineers and give them to the developers. Because they are a people person. Now, where's my stapler.... :biggrin:
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'Can't talk about what I do' because I don't know yet. Was told to arrive at starkiller base in one galactic standard unit and they'd find a job for me when I arrived.

lol
 
Half Fast said:
Agreed. Partly because the Army mis-managed and doomed the Comanche program back in the '90s. The DoD is terrible at running large development programs.
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Fixed. It's far from unique to the Army. See LCS, Constellation Frigate, etc.
 
Velocity173 said:
Oh yeah. A lot of people in the Reserves scrambling for jobs right now. It’s a mess. I haven’t heard anything about NG cut backs.

www.military.com

The Army Reserve Is Gutting Aviation Units. Thousands of Soldiers Are Being Left in the Lurch.

Thousands of Army Reserve soldiers are being forced to scramble for new assignments after the service abruptly ordered the dismantling of its helicopter units, a sweeping move that has caught commanders off guard and upended aviation operations across the
www.military.com www.military.com
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Husband of a coworker is double-affected. He is an Army Reserve H-47 crew chief and a GS on the civilian side.....his GS job WAS to support the reserve unit that is disbanding. Losing his reserve and civilian job at the same time. 18 years of credible service in the reserves. Tried to go back to active duty and was rejected. Now he's scrambling.
 
Sierra_Hotel said:
Fixed. It's far from unique to the Army. See LCS, Constellation Frigate, etc.
Click to expand...
Agreed, although the Constellation class Frigate was a much better program than anything else we've come up with since the Arleigh Burke program.
 
Half Fast said:
Guys that just say “I can’t tell you” are probably blowing smoke.
Click to expand...
So true! You generally won't know you're talking to someone working with super secret squirrel stuff because they won't say anything that would bring attention to the it such as 'I can't tell you'....
 
Fearless Tower said:
Husband of a coworker is double-affected. He is an Army Reserve H-47 crew chief and a GS on the civilian side.....his GS job WAS to support the reserve unit that is disbanding. Losing his reserve and civilian job at the same time. 18 years of credible service in the reserves. Tried to go back to active duty and was rejected. Now he's scrambling.
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Man that blows. Navigating all the hurdles til retirement isn’t as easy as some think. MOSs get eliminated, airframes / missions dissolved. Knew guys who got “pink slips” like this. Drawdowns are always inevitable.

www.military.com

Captains Deployed to Afghanistan Get ‘Pink Slip'

At least 48 Army captains serving in Afghanistan are among nearly 1,200 captains who have essentially been given pink slips.
www.military.com www.military.com
 
Half Fast said:
The classified programs I worked had cover stories. Rather than saying, “I can’t tell you what I do” we were to relate the cover story.
Click to expand...

Yes, exactly. And the more secret the program, the better backstopped the cover story.
 
Bill said:
A while back in my career I was working with three T1 contractors at the same time, and the story from each was “We’re building a satellite that collects and analyses signals.” That’s all they would ever say, but based on the customers, delivery dates, and flight dates I was able to figure out what the product likely was.
Click to expand...

You mean you were able to tie it back to the USG’s cover story?
 
Half Fast said:
Agreed. Partly because the Army mis-managed and doomed the Comanche program back in the '90s. The Army is terrible at running large development programs.
Click to expand...
Anybody remember Future Combat Systems (FCS)?
 
jsstevens said:
Anybody remember Future Combat Systems (FCS)?
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All too well, sadly. And FAADS. And Comanche. And Armed Aerial Scout. And MULE.

And those were just the ones I was involved with.

I’m surprised the Army isn’t still going to war on horseback.
 
The way this country treats members of the military is way too often disgusting. Pour billions into tech that makes less sense than the motorhome on Stripes, and cut people in mid-career with less regard than Wallmart does its part time people.

Was it a complete accident that the Jeep and the 2 1/2 ton truck got into service?
 
Half Fast said:
All too well, sadly. And FAADS. And Comanche. And Armed Aerial Scout. And MULE.

And those were just the ones I was involved with.

I’m surprised the Army isn’t still going to war on horseback.
Click to expand...
Don’t forget the JCA. Army was going to replace their C-23s with the C-27. Wasn’t a complete failure since SOCOM got some AF hand me downs but they planned on buying far more.
 
Fearless Tower said:
So true! You generally won't know you're talking to someone working with super secret squirrel stuff because they won't say anything that would bring attention to the it such as 'I can't tell you'....
Click to expand...

unless they say "I can't tell you" to make you think that they don't work anything classified because nobody working classified programs would say that...
 
Velocity173 said:
Don’t forget the JCA. Army was going to replace their C-23s with the C-27. Wasn’t a complete failure since SOCOM got some AF hand me downs but they planned on buying far more.
Click to expand...

I agree with your statement that the DOD doesn't run programs well in general, but if I had to rank the different services I'd say the USAF does the best with development programs and the Army is the worst by a long stretch. The USN is in between, but well ahead of the Army.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Husband of a coworker is double-affected. He is an Army Reserve H-47 crew chief and a GS on the civilian side.....his GS job WAS to support the reserve unit that is disbanding. Losing his reserve and civilian job at the same time. 18 years of credible service in the reserves. Tried to go back to active duty and was rejected. Now he's scrambling.
Click to expand...
That sucks. Not sure of his location, but there are jobs out there for -47 dudes, however most will involve relocation. Huntsville comes to mind.
 
The Army does OK with boring Army stuff designed to traditional Army standards of robustness and reliability. Systems like the Bradley, MLRS, and Javelin have proven effective in Ukraine, which is a severe stress test for sustained land warfare in harsh conditions. The Humvee was very successful, and the Blackhawk sets the standard for tactical airlift.

They fail when they try to pretend they are the Air Force or Navy and go for big technological leaps. The Commanche was a pie in the sky dream. A stealth helicopter was never going be sustainable in Army conditions. That program was doomed from the start.

The next program to flop will be the M7 and 6.8mm ammo. So many things wrong with that. SOCOM is already hedging their bets towards the 6.5CM.
 
Ed Haywood said:
The Army does OK with boring Army stuff designed to traditional Army standards of robustness and reliability. Systems like the Bradley, MLRS, and Javelin have proven effective in Ukraine, which is a severe stress test for sustained land warfare in harsh conditions. The Humvee was very successful, and the Blackhawk sets the standard for tactical airlift.

They fail when they try to pretend they are the Air Force or Navy and go for big technological leaps. The Commanche was a pie in the sky dream. A stealth helicopter was never going be sustainable in Army conditions. That program was doomed from the start.

The next program to flop will be the M7 and 6.8mm ammo. So many things wrong with that. SOCOM is already hedging their bets towards the 6.5CM.
Click to expand...
:yeahthat:

Nailed it. I'd say they do okay with missile programs, even the large-scale stuff like ATACMS, but more complex integrated systems are their bane.
 
Several decades ago I did some technical work for the Cargo Helicopter PM in St. Louis. A brilliant but acerbic man, he told me ‘All the Army knows to do is salute and march through the mud.’
 
Fearless Tower said:
Husband of a coworker is double-affected. He is an Army Reserve H-47 crew chief and a GS on the civilian side.....his GS job WAS to support the reserve unit that is disbanding. Losing his reserve and civilian job at the same time. 18 years of credible service in the reserves. Tried to go back to active duty and was rejected. Now he's scrambling.
Click to expand...
Active duy have an 18-year lock-in. Is there no such program in the reserve components?
 
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