Approved ADS-B with anonymous while 1200?

Well, I guess everyone needs to have something to worry about. Someone watching me on ADS-B ain't on my list, but to each their own.
 
The guys who did the field testing of Capstone in western Alaska sure did approve of it. Total POS? Maybe from your naive right to privacy point of view, but from the aircraft fleet operator's point of view? it's amazing. I sure like seeing the surface winds on my G3X screen. Where I fly that's pretty damn cool.

I don't recall any us us having a constitutional right to fly, let alone a right to fly anonymously. But for those who hate the ADS-B concept? Move out of the cities. Stay out of classified airspace. Live free. The regulations have provided the option.

Just because a design is a POS doesn’t make it non-useful. It’s just an engineering analysis of it.

Well, I guess everyone needs to have something to worry about. Someone watching me on ADS-B ain't on my list, but to each their own.

You’ve probably never been stalked. Stalked by someone intent on stalking for no reason whatsoever other than the fact that they have a completely broken brain and need to be isolated from society but can’t be, because they “haven’t done anything illegal yet”.

I do hope you never get to “enjoy” that insanity. And insanity it is.

Look at it this way. Got a daughter? Think if she bought an airplane and went places with it that everyone needs to know where that airplane goes at all times? Do they even need to know when she has to fly in ADS-B required airspace?

How about in her car? If the city decided to publish all the plate reading equipment and locations of all vehicles those see passing them and said it was for “safety” (when there’s clearly no safety reason for that) and just published it without announcement, and also had all of the information broadcast in the clear with no encryption over hundreds of miles for no reason whatsoever, would you call that a good design of a data system they claim to “need”?

There’s levels of stupidity in information tracking and this one is waaaaaay up there. Remember, ADS-B for the billions spent hasn’t met a single public goal it had, yet.

It was supposed to be for cramming more aircraft into airspace, per the public reasoning for paying for it, which was already limited by time, speed, distance, and see and avoid timeframes. The public goal keeps changing to obfuscate that it has absolutely nothing to do with traffic management.

And all of the “nice to have” features like weather are provided only on an “as able” basis. They’re secondary or tertiary to the tracking function.

The tracking function wasn’t even capable of handling all of the traffic in certain required areas at the time of design. Worked as Capstone in Alaska but when it went “oooh, we can get billions and force this garbage nation-wide) all of a sudden you have to bolt on UAT to even make the thing handle the traffic load.

It’s truly a POS, design-wise. No proper identification or repudiation of received transmissions, antenna blockages in many modes where safety is “assumed” but not properly guaranteed by a rebroadcast of the ground station, the asinine “hockey puck” that drives safety right out the window just to save on air time, the thing of discreet codes that never change to N-numbers broadcasting it all in the clear without encryption, dual frequency and diddling with ground stations having to figure out which things to rebroadcast on which transmitter... the list goes on.

It’s just a system where some bureaucrat shoved some loan money through in Alaska to various entities and came up with something that at best was a good stop-gap for the lack of information and control up there, and then realized they could make a multi-billion dollar land-grab by forcing it on the rest of CONUS — without doing a proper design for what might actually be needed, proper bandwidth for the data expected, and no need whatsoever to broadcast anything in the clear in a command and control/safety system.

The only good news is it only ran the deficit up by small double digit billions instead of triple digit, of they’d have done a real design and needs analysis and been honest about system capabilities when pitching it to Congress.

Example: Why the hell isn’t a tracked D-ATIS request system and requested clearance delivery included in this system, and yet available from AIRINC on private systems and frequencies for decades now? Because it wasn’t DESIGNED properly as an aviation two-way data system. It was designed as an add-on to transponders and Mode-S and you can see the “bolt on” mentality in the design if you’ve done any systems design work. The marketing wank to pretend it’s something it can barely handle, is even funnier.
 
Also with the FAA AK deal it was for commercial carriers, and they basically had to promise it wouldn’t be used for enforcement action before anyone would sign on.

AAAAND it’s diffrent when it’s a company plane with anyone aboard and flown by who knows which pilot, vs my personal plane where you 99.9% know I’m flying it, and there’s s short list of people who may be in it.

AAAANDx2 there’s a yuuuge difference between a opt in and forcing it down people’s throats.
 
Forcing it isn't correct in my area. I'm not required to have ADS-B out. I choose to have it. I know what the regs say but I'll opt to turn it off occasionally. I'll wait to see if the FAA takes exception to that. Don't care. You rebels ought to be all about that.

For years I've used Spidertracks. I have no idea how secure that is. Same with Inreach. Sat phones. Cell phones. Email. Text messaging. CB radios. Once again, don't care. I subscibe to these services for what they provide me. The same is true with ADS-B. Do any of you use Facebook? Google Maps? Waze? Heck, you can have a conversation about something and the next time you turn on your phone there's an advertisement for what you talked about. And you're worried about ADS-B?
 
I don't care if my tail number shows on an ATC scope. I don't want it always showing up for any Joe Six Pack to track.
 
For years I've used Spidertracks. I have no idea how secure that is. Same with Inreach. Sat phones. Cell phones. Email. Text messaging. CB radios. Once again, don't care. I subscibe to these services for what they provide me. The same is true with ADS-B. Do any of you use Facebook? Google Maps? Waze? Heck, you can have a conversation about something and the next time you turn on your phone there's an advertisement for what you talked about. And you're worried about ADS-B?

You have control of who sees all of those things except perhaps CB and they’re authenticated to be you and encrypted in transit.

You really don’t get RF network security, do you? I’m trying really hard not to laugh at your counters to the clearly deficient network design.

In all of those other things you can control or at least read the published policy of the collector and decide to approve or disapprove of their use and even sue them if they don’t follow their own policy and cause real legal damages by not doing so.

You have no such control on a completely unencrypted RF system and also have zero legal recourse for personal damages when it’s mandated by Uncle.

Let’s say you found out that Spidertracks released your location and someone stole $20K worth of avionics out of your airplane because of it. The thief was caught selling the stuff and the DA prosecutes and has rock solid evidence on the perps devices that they stored the ill-gotten or leaked information from the private company. They’re now liable.

Same scenario, thief receives ADS-B transmissions directly on an unencrypted government system. USG isn’t liable. Never will be.

Nobody has been arguing the security risk is high for most people. What we’ve been saying is there’s no recourse for the mandate causing a real personal security leak that shouldn’t be there.

They’re not going to fix it. This is the almighty US government bureaucrats that can do no wrong, haven’t you met them yet? They don’t have any mandate to build RF networks correctly. We just have to pay billions in loans for the things.
 
I couldn't care less about networks. I did look you up on Facebook and found it ironic that you posted your location as well as the places you visited yesterday. And other days previous, too. That network data has already been sold.
 
I couldn't care less about networks. I did look you up on Facebook and found it ironic that you posted your location as well as the places you visited yesterday. And other days previous, too. That network data has already been sold.

Still not getting the point. I can voluntarily place that information or not, and it’s up to me. I also don’t give a crap if it’s sold or not.

I can’t voluntarily not broadcast my location on ADS-B in the clear in required airspace.

It’s VERY different.
 
Let ya in on another “secret” @Stewartb — that post you saw a “location” on, on FB?

I wasn’t at that location when that was posted.

I’ll let you figure out how one does that. It’s built in and I’m sure you can find it.
 
Let ya in on another “secret” @Stewartb — that post you saw a “location” on, on FB?

I wasn’t at that location when that was posted.

I’ll let you figure out how one does that. It’s built in and I’m sure you can find it.

That.

And if local/state/federal government is also not on your “risk matrix” you really need to read up on history and our current state.
 
Stewartb, would you be willing to place a GPS tracker on your car and publish it openly online every single time you drive anywhere?

Do you think the general public would be OK with that on all of their vehicles too, along with having an open online database of licence plates published alongside names and addresses?
 
Stewartb, would you be willing to place a GPS tracker on your car and publish it openly online every single time you drive anywhere?

Do you think the general public would be OK with that on all of their vehicles too, along with having an open online database of licence plates published alongside names and addresses?
I don't think anyone would be OK with it, even the cops... they want to be the only ones with that data. I will say one thing, though, it would sure make for more polite drivers.
 
You guys spend way too much time finding ways to argue. If you don’t like ADS-B? Don’t use it. I’ve said that more than once. Why you try to convince me what I should do is beyond me. My choices are not your problem.
 
You guys spend way too much time finding ways to argue. If you don’t like ADS-B? Don’t use it. I’ve said that more than once. Why you try to convince me what I should do is beyond me. My choices are not your problem.

Some of us are forced to use it short of uprooting, moving and finding a new job, etc..., or giving up flying completely
 
Stewartb, would you be willing to place a GPS tracker on your car and publish it openly online every single time you drive anywhere?

Do you think the general public would be OK with that on all of their vehicles too, along with having an open online database of licence plates published alongside names and addresses?
This says it best. I've already seen people checking to see if one of our friends is safely on his way home. He didn't call to tell them he was, so they check Flight Aware. However, he took it about like I would when they questioned him about why he didn't call. He didn't want to. He's a grown man and didn't ask you to make sure he was okay.

I also know a guy who lies a lot about how much he flies and where he's flying, etc. We all know he's a blowhard, but now people are calling him out saying he only spent 5 minutes in the pattern, how did he go do a full aerobatic sequence, and similar comments. It's strange!

I have two friends who have their iPhones set where their wife can see where they're at all times. It drives me crazy and it's not even my wife. "Oh, I see you're leaving the airport, can you stop by HEB on the way home?" "Oh, I see you're still at the bar..." Now people are doing that when we're flying. It's not what we have to hide, it's just that I don't want you watching me all the time. Feels weird. Like Facebook, except you see what I'm doing whether or not I want you to.
 
You guys spend way too much time finding ways to argue. If you don’t like ADS-B? Don’t use it. I’ve said that more than once. Why you try to convince me what I should do is beyond me. My choices are not your problem.

This is intellectually dishonest.

“I don’t fly in airspace where you guys do, so just do like I do and don’t use it.” We do not have that option.

If you’re not involved, fine, you’re not involved. But defending the bad information leak behavior of the network that we HAVE to use while you’re NOT using it, is disingenuous at best, detrimental to finding a proper security solution for those stuck using it at worst.

It’s a MANDATE to use an insecure system for some of us. That’s the root cause problem.

I have two friends who have their iPhones set where their wife can see where they're at all times. It drives me crazy and it's not even my wife. "Oh, I see you're leaving the airport, can you stop by HEB on the way home?" "Oh, I see you're still at the bar..." Now people are doing that when we're flying. It's not what we have to hide, it's just that I don't want you watching me all the time. Feels weird. Like Facebook, except you see what I'm doing whether or not I want you to.

Again, a fully encrypted and authenticated system. It’s NOT broadcasting those locations to anyone with a receiver or iPhone. Very different. EXTREMELY different.

You HAVE to pay attention to the DETAILS in network security. There’s value in discussions of the overall state of privacy in general and who’s keeping what data, but this thread was specifically about ONE system, ADS-B.

@EdFred is looking for a way to anonymize his data in THIS system’s **** poor RF engineering network design.
 
I tried just changing my to Nate’s but RGs are faster so nobody was fooled.
 
Again, a fully encrypted and authenticated system. It’s NOT broadcasting those locations to anyone with a receiver or iPhone. Very different. EXTREMELY different.

You HAVE to pay attention to the DETAILS in network security. There’s value in discussions of the overall state of privacy in general and who’s keeping what data, but this thread was specifically about ONE system, ADS-B.

@EdFred is looking for a way to anonymize his data in THIS system’s **** poor RF engineering network design.
I understand it's different, but the comparison I'm making is someone who is able to track your every move while flying. While my friends give that freedom away by letting others track them by their phones, in an ADS-B world, we're told we have to install it to fly in certain airspace, then told if we have it, it must remain on all the time. One is choosing to give up freedom, the other is being mandated, but essential it bothers me to let others see my ever move. It doesn't mean I'm a criminal or have anything to hide, just that I don't like it.
 
Aren't aircraft originally certified without an electrical system exempt from this, similar to how they are exempt from the Mode C requirement when operating around Class B and C areas?
 
I understand it's different, but the comparison I'm making is someone who is able to track your every move while flying. While my friends give that freedom away by letting others track them by their phones, in an ADS-B world, we're told we have to install it to fly in certain airspace, then told if we have it, it must remain on all the time. One is choosing to give up freedom, the other is being mandated, but essential it bothers me to let others see my ever move. It doesn't mean I'm a criminal or have anything to hide, just that I don't like it.

Yep. That’s exactly what I’m saying, too. I *choose* who sees other properly designed tracking networks (well, other than government who sees it all anyway). I can’t choose on a badly built network that broadcasts it all, unencrypted, without rotating ID numbers for obfuscation, even.
 
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