Approach Charts..

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by WeekendWarrior, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. WeekendWarrior

    WeekendWarrior Filing Flight Plan

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    Hey all -
    Longtime lurker, first-time poster. I'm an IFR student. I fly PA28 and various Cessna singles (172, 177RG, 182, 206, 210). I've got just shy of 250 hours, looking to finally finish my IFR.
    So - the question - is there any reason not to use Jeppesen pubs (approach plates, enroutes, manuals, etc) for IFR training? Cost is no object, I have access to both. The main hangup I've seen on previous posts has been cost, so all-things-equal, why would you (or would you not) learn IFR flying Jepps? I know FAA charts well, I work with them every day, and I passed my IRA written on them, so it's not that I wouldn't know one or the other at all, I'm just looking for one to pick and use for my actual flying. IMO the Jepp is a more uniform product, even in the CONUS. I don't have career pilot ambitions, but I do hope to get to at least CFII in the next year or two.

    I fly with an EFB, I'm not picky on which one. I have experience with both ForeFlight and Garmin Pilot. I also just grabbed JeppFD to poke around. The only caveat is that my Jepp access is limited to JeppFD and cannot be added to FF or GP.
     
  2. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The actual plates take up space and are heavy to be carrying around,depending where you are flying.
     
  3. WeekendWarrior

    WeekendWarrior Filing Flight Plan

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    I'm using an EFB, though, so as long as I keep them up to date before I fly, my iPad doesn't get any heavier. And most of my flying is ~250nm trips from my home field.
     
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  4. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    No reason not to use Jepp charts if you like them better. The regulatory information is the same as the FAA charts. The presentation is marginally different. Some people like one better. Others like the other better. I've used both at different times along the way and am comforwith both. While at some time in the past I thought Jepps were better, the briefing strip closed that gap for me. I personally find the differences inconsequential, and not worth the additional cost. If I did a lot of international flying, I might feel differently and want the presentation uniformity.

    The one advantage the FAA charts have during training is that they are the ones used for knowledge test questions.
     
  5. texasclouds

    texasclouds Line Up and Wait

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    Welcome!
     
  6. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

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    If the Jepps were free, I'd still use the FAA charts...not because I think they're better, but because I'm now used to them, and don't see any reason to switch.

    Use the one you prefer.
     
  7. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The FAA charts have vastly improved (oft borrowing ideas from Jepp's persentation). Since I had Chart View in the MX20 (and foreflight wasn't yet available) I pretty much used Jepps exclusively (there was a brief time the FAA was using both for the exams). Now that I'm a heavy ForeFlight user, I pretty much only use the FAA charts.
     
  8. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    Wasn't a lot of that for both Jepp and FAA, particularly the briefing strip, the result of the Volpe study?
     
  9. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    The FAA spends WAY TOO much money for their charts. They should just employ Jeppesen to provide their much better charts.
     
  10. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    I thought the feds were the source. ?
     
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  11. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    Her's the way it works. Instrument approaches are regulatory. The feds create and test the approaches. The regulatory information is published in the FAA Form 8260 series. It's basically a data sheet. Here's a sample - the RNAV/GPS 13 at Columbia, SC. The FAA charting office, Jepp, and, theoretically, Joe's Instrument Procedure Emporium takes that data and publishes a chart based on it, depicting it as they wish and adding "non regulatory" information - you'll notice, for example, that there are no comm frequencies on the 8260.

    "Much better" refers to the presentation, not the underlying TERPS-based data.
     
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  12. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    Holy Scat,, you mean it isn't google? who knew. :)
     
  13. BigBadLou

    BigBadLou Final Approach

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    I agree with the majority here. If both presentations of the approach contain the same data, use whatever you prefer and feel more comfortable with. No reason to make it harder on yourself in a high-workload situation in the cockpit. Reading plates should come naturally.
     
  14. chemgeek

    chemgeek Line Up and Wait

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    I would start with the EFB that works for you and use the charts that come with it. I've used both Jepp and FAA IFR charts and both are quite usable. A well integrated and usable EFB might be more important than the chart choice. But to each their own. There is no "right" answer for all.
     
  15. WeekendWarrior

    WeekendWarrior Filing Flight Plan

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    The big issue I'm having is figuring out how to use JeppFD. I know FF like the back of my hand, and I fly with GTN glass generally, so the UI on GP is also incredibly intuitive. JeppFD seems to be totally its own animal, and I'm really struggling to find any tutorial videos on it intended for the recreational pilot (likely because 9/10 recreational pilots can't afford/choose not to pay for it, but...). I wish I could add Jepp to either of the other EFBs, but the license doesn't allow for it.

    I'm familiar with the TERPS process and a lot of my day-to-day work involves the data side of the 8260 packets. There is a LOT more going on behind the scenes than most would care to know, trust me. But as pointed out, the FAA does release 90% or so of the public IAP document packs, including the 8260 source forms. It's all free and available on the FAA's IFP Gateway site.
     
  16. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    So, if you know FF like the back of your hand but want Jepp charts, why not just spring for the FF Jepp package?

    As @chemgeek said, you start with the EFB which works for you. Fortunately, the one which works for you has a Jepp option.
     
  17. IK04

    IK04 Line Up and Wait

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    I learned instruments using Jeppesen products as a civilian and taught instruments with either. As a military pilot and instructor, I used FLIP charts and just got used to it. Now I have both the FAA and Jepp paper charts for those local airports with IAPs. I am by now thoroughly familiar with both and I pick whichever one I like best for each approach. Sometimes one or the other will have some annoying feature that makes me use to other one...
    I am just now beginning to use digital charts on a tablet after 40 years of flying, not including the digital charts I uploaded to the Multi-function Display of my all glass helicopter cockpit...
     
  18. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    I don’t use Jeppesen charts these days. The reason is I no longer fly enough XC IMC to justify the extra expense. But the Jeppesen format is much better the the FAA’s.

    Everything is logically organized in one place and all the numeric values that are important are in bold type so they are easily identified.
     
  19. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If Jepp had the FF charts back when I started with FF, I probably would have opted. I kind of got used to the FAA charts now and can't really see much point in going back for extra $$.
     
  20. Mitch817

    Mitch817 Filing Flight Plan

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    most everyone I've heard that has someone else paying the bills likes the Jepp charts/plates..

    That being said, I learned on the FAA charts/plates and I'd rather spend the extra money on AVGAS and gaining more experience than paying for Jepp on ForeFlight.

    As others have said, if you want to use Jepp and know ForeFlight like the back of your hand, then by all means use FF with Jepp charts and make your life easier than having to learn JeppFD
     
  21. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Huh? You can get Jepp charts in ForeFlight... Unless you have an employer's plan that specifically doesn't allow for it or something? If you want Jepp on ForeFlight, you can do that. Like many things in aviation, all it takes is money.
     
  22. Cici

    Cici Pre-Flight

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    I don't know if it is the split display on the mfd or the jepp charts, but i prefer to leave the charts off the display and fly with the faa charts on my ipad. I also learned with an ipad, faa charts and a 6 pack.