AOPA Membership Dues increase

retailguy said:
Feedback? Seriously? This thread is not feedback. It's griping, bitching, whining and moaning. Too many folks in this world only want to tell others what to do, but don't want to do it themselves. If you don't think AOPA is a good value don't join. If you don't think they are supporting the right initiatives, then YOU lead them, or watch them pass you by.
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My irony meter just pegged. Anybody know a good recalibration service?
 
The attached list of AOPA salaries from its 2012 IRS 990 return is the reason I let my membership lapse.
 

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Clark1961 said:
My irony meter just pegged. Anybody know a good recalibration service?
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Funny, very funny. It just gets old reading over and over and over and over again how someone else should do something for the 45, no wait, 59 dollars I paid in. And better still, how the ONLY important things that should be focused on are the things that affect that person making the claim. And if they do anything else, then they are "idiots" and their platform is "idiotic". Yeah.

Truth is, I couldn't give a crap about Santa Monica Airport. If I never see the state of California again, it'll be too soon. But, if that's where AOPA wants to spend the money we sent in, so be it. Next year, if I don't like it, I won't send $59. But I sure the hell won't tell them what they SHOULD do with the money. If you want to, knock yourself out.
 
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TedR3 said:
The attached list of AOPA salaries from its 2012 IRS 990 return is the reason I let my membership lapse.
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Phil Boyer is still sucking at the teet to the tune of a quarter million? Good God. Same with a former CFO.
 
Retailguy I think you are missing the boat, most of us aren't telling AOPA what to do with our money we just ain't giving them any.:lol:
 
I've got aircraft renters insurance through the AOPA. I'm sure I need to be an AOPA member.

Anyone aware of any other aviation insurance companies that insure renters?
 
ClimbnSink said:
Retailguy I think you are missing the boat, most of us aren't telling AOPA what to do with our money we just ain't giving them any.:lol:
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Perhaps the mistake I'm making is I'm actually reading what you're writing? Seems to me that there have been some very specific things said about what they should be focused on and how if they did that, THEN they would rejoin, THEN it would be a good value, THEN "something" would actually get done...

These things always wind up the same way, Greg. People just want to complain about how their money is wasted. Now it's delving into salary. The clear message is they are "paid too much". Who determines "too much"? The person paying $45, who doesn't make "a quarter of a million"?

It ends the same way. I ask myself, "why bother"? Right now I don't know. But I'm tired of it all the same....
 
Henning said:
Yep, but you won't get what you want because you won't put forth the effort to make it happen. Never in the history of humanity has your wish been a reality.
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Oh for sure, but I'm not going to spend blood and energy in a battle I can't win, but as Obi Wan said, there are alternatives to a direct confrontation.
 
nddons said:
I've got aircraft renters insurance through the AOPA. I'm sure I need to be an AOPA member.

Anyone aware of any other aviation insurance companies that insure renters?
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Avemco.
 
TedR3 said:
The attached list of AOPA salaries from its 2012 IRS 990 return is the reason I let my membership lapse.
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Whoa. Compensation of over 800 K per year for what should be somebody's dream job? That, and also access to a corporate jet?

This is the first thing in this thread that has made me seriously consider dropping AOPA membership.

Going to be doing some serious thinking about what I actually get from them.

Going to also be looking more seriously at EAA.
 
RalphInCA said:
Whoa. Compensation of over 800 K per year for what should be somebody's dream job? That, and also access to a corporate jet?

This is the first thing in this thread that has made me seriously consider dropping AOPA membership.

Going to be doing some serious thinking about what I actually get from them.

Going to also be looking more seriously at EAA.
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$800K comp to run a $35 million operation isn't unusual.
 
paflyer said:
$800K comp to run a $35 million operation isn't unusual.
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FWIW, here is EAA's from 2013. Hightower took home nearly a half mill (significantly less than Fuller), Tom Poberezny got even more, and only one other person cracked $200K.
 

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For the most part, I think pilots are a great group of people. BUT, I'll never cease being amazed at how cheap they are, sometimes. On the Baja Bush Pilots site someone is always whining that they'll never fly to Mexico again because someone charged them an extra $5 or $10 dollars. Come on guys/gals, you're a very elite group of people, probably verging on rich, if not "comfortable". You probably spend more on a dinner, or a set of brake pads, or an hour of fuel, than what the AOPA costs.
With the attacks on General Aviation, we need their voice. Are they perfect... No.
I view them like an HOA... 'sucks, but someone has to do it.
If an Air Traffic Controller makes $122k (median), then the AOPA CEO is easily worth $800K.
 
paflyer said:
$800K comp to run a $35 million operation isn't unusual.
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Yeah, but this is running AOPA! Not some boring run-of-the-mill manufacturing organization or a bank or something else that is not all that exciting.

I would think it is the kind of job where people may be willing to take less compensation, in order to give back to an activity that they love. In addition, having access to a fleet of airplanes is a major perk -- especially for a pilot!

But, I may be kind of unrealistically idealistic in those ways. :(

The city manager of the town I live in has a huge salary also, (less than half of the AOPA's CEOs salary, for a city budget of almost $60,000,000) but to me, that's okay because in that job you get beat up all the time and are continuously criticized. And the job is probably kind of boring, when it comes right down to it.

Plus there are hundreds, of towns similar to ours that would love to have him.

No airplane for him, just a car allowance.

There is only one AOPA.

I am not qualified for the job, but if I were, I would do it in part for my love of aviation – not just for the salary.
 
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I was going to jump in and defend AOPA and point out that the tip I left for dinner last night was more than the $14 annual premium increase.
But Henning's post makes too much sense.

I still support AOPA and I proudly wear the hat, but I would like to see them go to bat for the driver's license medical.

Henning said:
Katie,

This exemplifies my position and why I don't support AOPA anymore, the wrong issues are being given priority and often on the wrong side of the issue. I realize that jets are sometimes operated GA, but they have their own representative organizations with members that have finances rivaling small countries. SMO has a large base of very wealthy users, Let Angelina, Brad, Kurt... and the rest spend their money keeping SMO open. Heck, it would likely be as simple as limiting SMO to recip traffic and limiting the hours of high horsepower/decibel operations. The main qualm the neighborhood has had for a long time is jet traffic anyway. Does it serve the majority membership better to negotiate a restricted use facility, or try to protect jet traffic into SMO when there are other fields not far off?

AOPA shouldn't be prioritizing the membership money to save SMO, there are many more dollars available from other sources who have a direct vested interest in SMO, let those dollars get spent there.

AOPA should be getting behind the rapid enactment and enforcement of the GA Revitalization legislation and the implementation of the Experimental Non Commercial rules, and pushing to raise the applicable inventory to all recip aircraft <6000MGW.

This is the issue of greatest import to light GA, the body of people that made AOPA happen, and the organization that is supposed to represent us.

You sold us all down the river for the money that flies the shiny jets and I resent the hell out of you all for it. Get your acts together and start fighting the fights that matter to us, the small guys operating light planes for personal use outsides the extremes of what rational budgets would allow. We need this new category of operations in order to modernize our fleet otherwise the costs are greater than most planes are worth and carry no value forward in a sale. With this category we can put FADEC with electronic injection and timing with real time knock detection and elimination. This is the key to improved operating economy and reliability eliminating 'top overhauls' and all the cylinder and valve work expenses related in running leaded fuel and rich mixtures. Our airframes are doing just fine thank you, what we need is to be able to upgrade our engines from a 1950s technology and bring our panels up to date and ready for when ADS-B comes into effect, cost effectively all using tried and true multi generation technology that started development in the 1970s.

Why don't I see or hear about AOPA fighting for this?
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CT4ME said:
For the most part, I think pilots are a great group of people. BUT, I'll never cease being amazed at how cheap they are, sometimes. On the Baja Bush Pilots site someone is always whining that they'll never fly to Mexico again because someone charged them an extra $5 or $10 dollars. Come on guys/gals, you're a very elite group of people, probably verging on rich, if not "comfortable". You probably spend more on a dinner, or a set of brake pads, or an hour of fuel, than what the AOPA costs.
With the attacks on General Aviation, we need their voice. Are they perfect... No.
I view them like an HOA... 'sucks, but someone has to do it.
If an Air Traffic Controller makes $122k (median), then the AOPA CEO is easily worth $800K.
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I don't need their voice. AOPA does not represent me, why should I support them? You can send in double if you want.:lol:
 
nddons said:
I've got aircraft renters insurance through the AOPA. I'm sure I need to be an AOPA member.

Anyone aware of any other aviation insurance companies that insure renters?
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You do not need to be a member to use the AOPA insurance agency, they will be most happy to take your money regardless. Most aviation insurance agents or direct company salespeople will be happy to quote you renters insurance.
 
RalphInCA said:
Yeah, but this is running AOPA! Not some boring run-of-the-mill manufacturing organization or a bank or something else that is not all that exciting.

I would think it is the kind of job where people may be willing to take less compensation, in order to give back to an activity that they love. In addition, having access to a fleet of airplanes is a major perk -- especially for a pilot!

But, I may be kind of unrealistically idealistic in those ways. :(

The city manager of the town I live in has a huge salary also, (less than half of the AOPA's CEOs salary, for a city budget of almost $60,000,000) but to me, that's okay because in that job you get beat up all the time and are continuously criticized. And the job is probably kind of boring, when it comes right down to it.

Plus there are hundreds, of towns similar to ours that would love to have him.

No airplane for him, just a car allowance.

There is only one AOPA.

I am not qualified for the job, but if I were, I would do it in part for my love of aviation – not just for the salary.
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"..in that job you get beat up all the time and are continuously criticized"

LMAO, maybe Mr Baker should lurk PoA...

AOPA and any other real NpF is a BUSINESS first, and unless it's a shoestring operation association execs are compensated appropriately for the market and the size of the organzation, just like any other job (any dispute of that goes right to the spin zone!)
 
nddons said:
For a nonprofit it's a little rich.
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A not for profit isn't a charity to the people who work there for a living. They provide a service like any other business.
 
nddons said:
I've got aircraft renters insurance through the AOPA. I'm sure I need to be an AOPA member.

Anyone aware of any other aviation insurance companies that insure renters?
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Avemco is great.
 
paflyer said:
A not for profit isn't a charity to the people who work there for a living. They provide a service like any other business.
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I'm well aware of that. I also know a few of my partners that went to work as CFOs or CEOs for NFPs, charitable or otherwise.

When you are CEO of an organization that provides services (think about a regional Ronald McDonald House) that asks the public and select donors for 100% of their operating revenue, you will not get far when your salary exceeds that of many of your donors.

You frequently make a quality of life choice when working for an NFP, meaning you don't have the burdens that you may have had in a tougher career, working 3,000+ hour years.

That's why I told the United Way to take a flying **** when I was living in Charlotte and it was learned that the president and CEO (one person) had a salary and benefits package of $1.2 million. Google "United Way Carolinas Scandal" to find out more.

It may be somewhat different in a membership organization, but not by much. Your constituency isn't kids with cancer, but it's the membership itself.

Places like Ronald McDonald house start fundraising every year at zero. A membership organization has a predictable annuity stream, and frankly doesn't have to work as hard raising money.

If the EAA didn't have AirVenture, how much lower would their membership be? I'm guessing it's sizable. I'm not sure how many people are AOPA members for Sun n Fun purposes, but I'm guessing it's not too significant. The point being, the AOPA needs to keep earning it's keep with its members, and to many it has fallen short.

Personally, I used AOPA services much more 10 years ago when I was a student pilot and post-checkride. I printed out airport diagrams, used their flight planner, and used their website. Today? Not so much. Foreflight gives me most everything I need, and I can't think of another thing I use it for. I used to go to AOPA town halls when Phil Boyer manned them himself. I haven't heard of any town halls in at least 5 years.

But back to NFP salaries. The NRA CEO makes $800,000, but their revenue is over $250 million.

AOPA's revenues are $37 million, and EAA's are $32 million. Care to reconsider your statement?
 
Stan,

The most well reasoned and insightful post yet in this thread.

And more importantly, spot on.

Thank you!
 
TomHaines said:
All of AOPA's aircraft have been unblocked for more than five years.
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Every flight :dunno::dunno::dunno:...

Or just the ones AOPA can justify as business??? \


ps... How many hours did N4GA rack up last year.... And how many can be tracked ??:dunno:......:rolleyes:
 
an excellent post in the parallel thread that's running over on red:

VA Aviator said:
I wish the members would really dig in to how AOPA does it business. I have met several of the employees that are on the different FAA public/private industry committees and they are not up to the tasks. Look at every report and recommendation that has come out of the GA Steering Committee and you get the point that AOPA is not OUR advocacy group. I hate to say it, but the EAA does a far better job on these committees than AOPA with far less resources.

I would have been far more supportive, if Mr. Baker had put some numbers in his email to members? Also, will I still receive his messages about needing more $ to his PAC to do "ANY Advocacy"

My question is what is costing so much to do the MISSION of AOPA? Why do we need them to provide a flight planning software? Not like there is a lack of choices. I believe they have about 200 employees. What are they all doing for us? How many are tied up providing competing services that private companies try to provide, but have to fight with AOPA to make it.

I want AOPA to do just Advocacy and help Pilots when they have trouble with the FAA. Nothing more. Let private industry do the rest. Let the car rental companies and credit card companies compete for our $

And one more thing. If you can't do a magazine that pays for itself with ADs, don't do it. Are you telling me it has to take $10 of dues to sustain it. Fire the Editor and all the people involved in doing the ADs and marketing.

NRA = $39, AOPA = $59. Who does a better job in Advocacy and keeping government in check? Oh, and you get a cap with your $39 membership and magazine, decal, insurance. For a lifetime membership you get a nice leather jacket. You can also pay installments to get to your life membership.

AOPA, do a little market research and you will find you are not in line with the beltway lobbyist.
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Do the execs also receive "bonuses" in addition to these salaries?

For a $37mil revenue operation, those salaries are _very_ rich.

I know private companies with nearly 10x that revenue whose CEOs do not make that much.
 
TomHaines said:
The audited financials can be found under the Governance tab in the About section of the Web site. Here's a link to the 2013 financials: http://www.aopa.org/-/media/Files/AOPA/Home/About%20AOPA/Governance/AOPA%20Governance%20Page/AOPA_FS_2013.pdf
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Tom,

With all due respect, if you are really serious about trying to convince the peanut galley that AOPA is looking out for them then how about a (no BS) progress report on:

1. pushing the owner-maintained aircraft regs

2. eliminating the third class medical

3. pushing the non-commercial private aircraft category

4. simplification of the certification process

5. expediting the 100LL alternative approval.

These are all are things that would help broaden the appeal of GA as well as helping those who are already involved.

What is the current (no BS) status of each and what (no BS) has AOPA done to further the progress on each and how much (no BS) time, effort and funds have been spent on each?
 
dans2992 said:
Do the execs also receive "bonuses" in addition to these salaries?

For a $37mil revenue operation, those salaries are _very_ rich.

I know private companies with nearly 10x that revenue whose CEOs do not make that much.
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The 990s include every bit of compensation to the execs, right down to cell phone reimbursement--which is also taxed.

And, by the way, for those who bother looking at the financials, the revenue was $47.6 million in 2013, down from $53.5 million in 2012--and not that it will change anyone's mind. As is frequently the case, people often cite wrong and outdated information.
 
timwinters said:
Tom,

With all due respect, if you are really serious about trying to convince the peanut galley that AOPA is looking out for them then how about a (no BS) progress report on:

1. pushing the owner-maintained aircraft regs

2. eliminating the third class medical

3. pushing the non-commercial private aircraft category

4. simplification of the certification process

5. expediting the 100LL alternative approval.

These are all are things that would help broaden the appeal of GA as well as helping those who are already involved.

What is the current (no BS) status of each and what (no BS) has AOPA done to further the progress on each and how much (no BS) time, effort and funds have been spent on each?
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Tim, with all due respect, we report routinely on these items throughout all of our communications channels, magazines, web sites, email newsletters, and video channel--no BS.

No. 1, 3, and 4 are part of the Part 23 rewrite, which AOPA has been hugely supportive of and participated in drafting.

No. 2 is reported on practically weekly as the number of cosponsors ratchets up. And, as we have reported extensively, Mark Baker met w/ Adminstrator Huerta a few weeks ago on third-class medical and we believe we will get some good news before or at OSH.

Again, No. 5, is regularly covered by us when there is news to report and our technical staff helped develop the process by which the fuel candidates will be tested and they are on the Piston Aviation Fuels Initiative committees.

We just installed a new search engine on our site and a quick keyword search on any of these subjects will turn up dozens of recent stories on the subjects--no BS.
 
paflyer said:
Who dat?
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Roger Myers was a 30-year employee who left as CFO in about 2012. During his tenure, he elected to have deferred compensation, which is continuing to be paid out after his departure--money he earned during his time as an employee; same with Phil Boyer, Diana Roberts and some other former execs. Deferred compensation is not uncommon for executives and gets paid out and included on the 990 after the person leaves.
 
N801BH said:
Every flight :dunno::dunno::dunno:...

Or just the ones AOPA can justify as business??? \


ps... How many hours did N4GA rack up last year.... And how many can be tracked ??:dunno:......:rolleyes:
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The BARR program is all or nothing. You can't select on a flight by flight basis which flights are visible and AOPA's airplanes have been unblocked for years.
 
TomHaines said:
Tim, with all due respect, we report routinely on these items throughout all of our communications channels, magazines, web sites, email newsletters, and video channel--no BS.

No. 1, 3, and 4 are part of the Part 23 rewrite, which AOPA has been hugely supportive of and participated in drafting.

No. 2 is reported on practically weekly as the number of cosponsors ratchets up. And, as we have reported extensively, Mark Baker met w/ Adminstrator Huerta a few weeks ago on third-class medical and we believe we will get some good news before or at OSH.

Again, No. 5, is regularly covered by us when there is news to report and our technical staff helped develop the process by which the fuel candidates will be tested and they are on the Piston Aviation Fuels Initiative committees.

We just installed a new search engine on our site and a quick keyword search on any of these subjects will turn up dozens of recent stories on the subjects--no BS.
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Thanks, Tom. I may be way off base but I think these are some of the most important topics to many pilots. A permanent page on the website tracking progress/status of these and other important topics might be extremely helpful. As I said over on red, it would certainly help your cause if that page included something like:

Last year:

We spent $xxx,xxx on Y

We spent $x,xxx,xxx on Z

We spent $xxx,xxx on AA

All in an effort to protect your freedom to fly and make it more affordable.
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BTW, Tom,

I watch the AOPA live vid almost every week. Nice job, keep it up.
 
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