Anyone familiar with Philly area flying?

[4RNB]

I'm bored with flying local circles and am looking for better things to do. I've been seeing too many pizza reviews that have my mouth water. I'm dropping weight doing low carb and want the cheat meals to be special. So I am thinking about some 2 hr ish flights towards Philly, at this point a couple places in Jersey seem to have good 9+ Portnoy reviews, near enough to airports.

I fly a bit near RDU and CLT, just stay outside their space, keep eyes out, stay VFR but listen in as best I can. Looking today, I'm not sure that is a good idea going between Atlantic City and Philly, while being near McGuire. I. also see N87 (DiLorenzo's tomato pies in Robbinsville) has STAR arrivals though I don't normally go above 10K. I'm just now getting comfortable to do some IFR with my set up.

I think "best practice" would be to file IFR. What should I expect?
Next best would be VFR flight following, how much would they give me leeway (I generally defer and do what they say as if IFR)?
What about just VFR?

I think Lakehurst (KNEL) had another good review for Brooklyn Square in Jackson NJ

Sample route just now is PGV LEBVE N87
I'd probably go up 9500 (or 9000)

Thanks!

 

[Pinecone]

Are you instrument rated???

File direct and they will give you what THEY want. Otherwise, file what you prefer, and they will give you what THEY want.

 

[GeorgeC]

Looking today, I'm not sure that is a good idea going between Atlantic City and Philly, while being near McGuire.

Why? Don't bust the R areas, bring your A game on the radio and keep your head on a swivel.

My son and I saw some pointy gray airplanes when we flew up to Linden last year

 

[4RNB]

Are you instrument rated???

File direct and they will give you what THEY want. Otherwise, file what you prefer, and they will give you what THEY want.

yes, rated.
your other response is too obtuse to interpret online
If they give me what they want, what should I expect?

 

[4RNB]

Why? Don't bust the R areas, bring your A game on the radio and keep your head on a swivel.

My son and I saw some pointy gray airplanes when we flew up to Linden last year

It looked busier. Two flights ago while VFR but listening I heard of a heavy being warned of me, to not scare me.
Yesterday VFR my direct course would have had me near vortices of a Delta

 

[GaryM]

Looking today, I'm not sure that is a good idea going between Atlantic City and Philly, while being near McGuire.

I'm not instrument rated, but I can say that McGuire is extremely accommodating when you request flight following/traffic advisories. They prefer to be talking to you, and so make it quite easy.

I had the same great experience with Atlantic City, though the only time I landed there was during the pandemic, and I think they were just thrilled to see an airplane.

 

[GeorgeC]

IIRC I just flew over McGuire's airspace. Do be mindful of the big blue airplanes on the TAC, lest you be all

 

[M20K]

You could easily go IFR, but be prepared for either something close to Direct OR something that sends you the long way around.

If you were thinking about going at 9K, why not just go at 5,500 and go over McGuire. I'd change LEBVE with BRAND. Enroute if McGuire is not Active, they'll let you descend through their airspace and you can go Direct N87. But if they are Active, BRAND puts you right at the edge of the Class B and A-220. So you can start your descent to stay above A-220, but as soon as you clear it, you can continue down along the edge of it as you turn toward N87.

And have you thought out how you're getting to DiLorenzo's? Are you taking an Uber or trying to walk? You might call ahead and see if there is a way to walk across 130. I've only driven around there a few times, so I really don't remember. And if you're looking for a good mechanic, have a chat with Dave at Air Mods while you're there.

 

[Mileage]

Why? Don't bust the R areas, bring your A game on the radio and keep your head on a swivel.

My son and I saw some pointy gray airplanes when we flew up to Linden last year

It's very easy and McGuire ATC is terrific

 

[Steamflyer]

You are near RDU and CLT but avoid their Class C? Is this for comm reasons or just no need? ACY to PHL doesn't really have to do with McGuire and they are just another approach control save for a little restricted area right near McGuire. The little Jersey airports are nice - if you are bobbing from one to the other, VFR is fine. Coming from a long way to the area, always nice to file IFR - you aren't going to be very high the closer you get to PHL and NY tracons anyhow.

PHL itself if sometimes like BWI with sort of a second airport for GA - often you get to land on 08 and depart on 26, thereby avoiding the main part of the airport. Very straightforward for a Class B.

 

[Ventucky Red]

Was back there last year and did a flight with a friend from ILG to FRG... ATC was very accommodating... I do recommend staying away from 39N Princeton on the weekend...

 

[4RNB]

You are near RDU and CLT but avoid their Class C? Is this for comm reasons or just no need? ACY to PHL doesn't really have to do with McGuire and they are just another approach control save for a little restricted area right near McGuire. The little Jersey airports are nice - if you are bobbing from one to the other, VFR is fine. Coming from a long way to the area, always nice to file IFR - you aren't going to be very high the closer you get to PHL and NY tracons anyhow.

PHL itself if sometimes like BWI with sort of a second airport for GA - often you get to land on 08 and depart on 26, thereby avoiding the main part of the airport. Very straightforward for a Class B.

CLT goes to 10k so I just fly around. Have not had reason to go close to rdu.
08/26 closed per notam but good to know, would love to fly in if they re open.

 

[Steamflyer]

Must be repaving it - NOTAM says goes until June 30, which of course can be extended. 17/35 not that bad since you'll roll out and go right to FBO landing 17 and will depart from Kilo for 17 typically, just barely in the "big" airport. If they send you the main runways (09/27) then you get the full big airport experience, complete with "number 12 for departure."

 

[4RNB]

Must be repaving it - NOTAM says goes until June 30, which of course can be extended. 17/35 not that bad since you'll roll out and go right to FBO landing 17 and will depart from Kilo for 17 typically, just barely in the "big" airport. If they send you the main runways (09/27) then you get the full big airport experience, complete with "number 12 for departure."

I expect for most things it will be easier to find easy in and out destinations at smaller airports.
That and it is a good trip still to get downtown.

 

[bkspero]

This is an easy and pleasant VFR flight. You might want to insert SBY (the Salisbury VOR) to the routing between KPGV and LEBVE. That will keep you out of the Chesapeake Bay restricted areas and also keep you closer to land in the event of engine issues.

Patuxent/Potomac approach, Dover Approach, Atlantic City Approach, McGuire Approach (or Philly Approach if you want to try and get some Bravo time...the worst they can do is say to keep clear of the Bravo, and then you call McGuire) are all pretty accommodating. The Alert area is nothing to worry about. You may get a call out for a C-17, but separation has never been an issue in the 15 years I've been flying through that airspace. You will need to be ADS-B out equipped due to the segment of the flight within Philly's 30 mile ring.

Another possible complication is a Presidential TFR in either Philly, New York, or Bedminster NJ. The easiest thing to do is to avoid TFR days, but even if one is in effect, it isn't that big of a deal. Your route takes you through the Philly TFR outer ring, so you'd need to either be on flight following (with a filed, but not necessarily active VFR flight plan, or IFR. Otherwise it is no different flying through the outer ring on Flight Following than it is getting Flight Following anywhere else. IFR is IFR in a TFR outer ring, or not.

N87 is outside the bounds of a Philly TFR. On departure from N87 you'll need to get a squawk code pretty quickly before entering a Philly TFR, but McGuire is very responsive. You could also call McGuire Clearance Delivery on the phone and get a VFR squawk code from them prior to taking off.

N87 is also outside of a NY TFR, and as far as I can recall, there is a cut-out for it in the Bedminster TFR. For both you'd be heading back south away from the TFR. So you can pick up your code in the air on your own timetable.

Delorenzo's on Rt-33 in Robbinsville is 1.7 miles by car from N87, so it's either a long walk, an easy bike ride, or a cab/Uber. There should be good Uber service in that area. Their tomato pies are deserving of their reputation.

Another option is a pizzeria named Alfonso's in Princeton about 10 nm north of N87. Google "Best Pizza in NJ" and it will be on the list of hits. Fly into 39N and walk a little less than a mile (there is a landing fee of about $15 for a piston single). 39N is in the outer ring of a Bedminster TFR, so if one is in effect, you'd need to keep your squawk code to the ground on the way in, and get one from Newark Clearance Delivery by phone on the ground and be squawking it before you take off for the return.

If you want an easy walk to very good pizza, another option is to fly another 10 nm north into 47N and walk to a restaurant called "Pizza and Pasta" at the east end of the runway. The other benefit of this destination is that it typically has the cheapest fuel in the area (currently $5.15/gal self serve). 47N is within the outer ring of either a Bedminster TFR or a NY City TFR, so if either one is in effect you'd need to keep your inbound code to the ground and get a code from NY Clearance Delivery by phone on the ground for the return. One more wrinkle for 47N is that during a Bedminster TFR runway 07 changes from left traffic to right traffic to keep planes further away from the inner ring.

Enjoy

 

[Kitch]

I'm bored with flying local circles and am looking for better things to do.

I fly a bit near RDU and CLT, just stay outside their space, keep eyes out, stay VFR but listen in as best I can.

I am all in favor of your mission for good pizza. My opinion if you fly around but have never been into a Charlie airport I highly recommend doing it. Nothing will level up your flying experience like challenging yourself a little bit in busier airspace/airports.

I remember the 1st time my wife and I went to Maine for lunch in a rental 172 2 weeks after PPL checkride and the BOS controller says would you like a Bravo clearance I was like sure why not. Learned more that day than most of my private training, and it was AWESOMENESS !!!

But I digress. Go get your pizza in NJ. Get on flight following or file and just enjoy the experience. That is after all why we fly.

 

[Pinecone]

yes, rated.
your other response is too obtuse to interpret online
If they give me what they want, what should I expect?

What you get depends. So I just file direct and take what I get. You can see what you are likely to get via Fore Flight or Flight Aware before you get going.

 

[chemgeek]

TBH, when flying in the PHL and DCA area, I just file IFR. It makes things simpler, and they cant keep you out of the Bravo. Just be prepared on occasion for a little re-route, but based on past experience, I usually get what I file or close to it and ATC tries to get you out of their hair as soon as possible.

 

[AV8R_87]

PHL is a very accomodating Bravo, even for VFR traffic.
McGuire will work with you and let you fly a PAR approach there. Not staffed on weekends last time I checked.
Work with both to coordinate any active MOAs and restricted airspace.

 

[Brad Z]

TBH, when flying in the PHL and DCA area, I just file IFR. It makes things simpler, and they cant keep you out of the Bravo.

[laughs in FRZ speak]
More specifically, you don't need to hear the words "cleared into class Bravo" but they can and will keep you out of the way of other IFR traffic, which can mean routings many many miles out of the way. Based just south of Joint Base Andrew's, I typically avoid IFR for points north; IFR heading south is easy peasy. IFR in the northeast means being glued to airways. But all the tracons are very good about providing flight following and giving VFRs bravo clearances, so I typically do that if the weather permits.

 

[Pinecone]

I guarantee if you file from the north of the DC/Balt Bravo, headed south the WILL route you around the Bravo. On the East side, T-295 is the normal route. If headed more west, they will give you direct MRB, then where you need to do.