Anybody carry a handgun when they fly GA?

Dean said:
There are sheep and there are wolves, which one you want to be is up to you.
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I think the saying goes that there are sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs.
 
rainsux said:
> regularly scheduled commercial flights ...

The section of OH laws that I read, do not mention anything about regularly scheduled commercial flights ... It only mentioned airport terminals.

Fwiw, I do have pistol safe in the plane. I also unload, as I have header tanks beneath the floor.
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Correct, but the accepted definition seems to be 121 and 135 terminals. We are posted for that reason.


FWIW I'm about 50/50 and long trips a long gun goes along too.
 
John,

You are entitled to your point of view. Just so long as they do not infringe on my rights.

If you want to go ask someone about carrying in public and what happens when they are not allowed to, I would recommend Susanna Hupp and Nikki Goeser.
 
I don't but I know plenty of people who do. Why can't we just let everyone make their own personal decision and leave it at that?
 
Everskyward said:
I don't but I know plenty of people who do. Why can't we just let everyone make their own personal decision and leave it at that?
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Sure, but I believe the OP was asking about legal issues associated with carrying a handgun in the plane.

You really have to be careful about knowing what the laws are in the jurisdictions (states, cities) in which you land or may have to divert.

This is what I use to get up to speed on the state laws. States like NJ, and NY require a issued by that state just to posses a handgun, not just to carry, but to buy one and keep it locked up in your home. Those are the states where you want to leave the handgun at home.


http://handgunlaw.us/
 
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Kind of like the 17 year old boy carrying a condom. It's just making sure you have protection when you need it. Police are there after the fact to write the report and clean up the mess.

I think of it like carrying a pocket knife. It's just a tool.
 
N2124v said:
http://img.tapatalk.com/a6937ba0-2476-56ae.jpg[IMG]

Kind of like the 17 year old boy carrying a condom. It's just making sure you have protection when you need it. Police are there after the fact to write the report and clean up the mess.

I think of it like carrying a pocket knife. It's just a tool.[/QUOTE]

Accept the kid hopes to use the condom...
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Anthony said:
So are you paranoid if you carry homeowners and auto insurance, or you use checklists for your plane even though you've never had an engine failure or in flight emergency?
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OK, I'm paranoid. Big deal.
 
Anthony said:
Sure, but I believe the OP was asking about legal issues associated with carrying a handgun in the plane.
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OK but maybe we could refrain from calling one side "paranoid" and the other side "sheep".
 
Alex, as long as your survival knife has the little compass on the handle cap....
 
Your chances of needing your sidearm are on the order of winning the lottery. We create the universe we live in with our thoughts, what you think is what you leave as your legacy. You can continue in fear, or you can free yourself from it. Your choice will reflect in the lives of your children and grandchildren.
 
Morne said:
I almost always carry when I fly, but then I almost never use towered airports
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The absence of a tower doesn't mean there is an absence of scheduled air service
 
Anthony said:
I have sat in courtrooms as an observer through several sentencings where the horrible atrocities by the perps were described in detail by the victims. And I do mean HORRIBLE to the point I will not repeat them here. I vowed then an there not to allow that to happen to me nor my family.

So are you paranoid if you carry homeowners and auto insurance, or you use checklists for your plane even though you've never had an engine failure or in flight emergency?
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But you also view from a narrow perspective, you're like my mom, grew up in the middle of bombings, lost her father, became a nurse... everything in her world is death and destruction and fear. Poor woman has known few moments of joy in her life.
 
I'm one of the biggest fans of CCW. But ironically, flying is one of the few times you'll find me unarmed. I've always been in the habit of flying as unemcumbered and light as possible.
 
Everskyward said:
OK but maybe we could refrain from calling one side "paranoid" and the other side "sheep".
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Why? Both are true of both. Both are paranoid and fearful and both spend their money like sheep quashing their fears on whatever product they are sold from arms to alarms and ammo to armed guards.
 
I carry pretty much everywhere I can. Pack, modified holster laced into vest, ankle holster are most common. One dance hall adjacent to a church/school, I won't carry in. Termination offense at work too. Of course I work in a SIDA area.

I'm screened and my stuff x-rayed every day entering and leaving Maint base, not entirely unlike like commercial passengers.

One Mechanic almost got fired for having a butter knife in his lunch bucket going in thru security not too long ago. It's kind of insane when you realize that if he was a sheet metal mechanic, all he has to do is grab a strip of metal from a scrap bin, run it across a belt sander and hes got 2 ft sword he can cut your head off with.

It's weird when folks living a bubble make the rules.
 
Henning said:
Your chances of needing your sidearm are on the order of winning the lottery. We create the universe we live in with our thoughts, what you think is what you leave as your legacy. You can continue in fear, or you can free yourself from it. Your choice will reflect in the lives of your children and grandchildren.
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I agree completely. I don't carry out of fear, it's to be prepared for what may happen. Like carrying a jack in your car or a fire extinguisher in your plane. They are really nice to have handy when you need it.

It's a personal choice, I'll leave it at that.
 
Rigged4Flight said:
If you happen to land in Vermont, we'll welcome you with open arms. (no gay pun intended)
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Unfortunately, we will not return the favor.

Vermonters enjoy the freedom to carry openly or concealed, without a permit. :)
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At least I can carry in two New England states. You can only carry in one.
 
kontiki said:
I carry pretty much everywhere I can. Pack, modified holster laced into vest, ankle holster are most common. One dance hall adjacent to a church/school, I won't carry in. Termination offense at work too. Of course I work in a SIDA area.

I'm screened and my stuff x-rayed every day entering and leaving Maint base, not entirely unlike like commercial passengers.

One Mechanic almost got fired for having a butter knife in his lunch bucket going in thru security not too long ago. It's kind of insane when you realize that if he was a sheet metal mechanic, all he has to do is grab a strip of metal from a scrap bin, run it across a belt sander and hes got 2 ft sword he can cut your head off with.

It's weird when folks living a bubble make the rules.
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+100! Most people will never get it.
 
I can't say I do or do not but in the great state of Texas there are many airports along the border where having a concealed handgun could save your life. When I say along the border I am talking about within 100 to 150 miles from the border.
 
kontiki said:
Ever run into legal problems carrying on a GA flight?

I believe I've seen SIK (MO) posted for no handguns at the gate to the airport. I believe the sign said it was a state law.
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Maybe I do, maybe I don't. It's only my business and nobody else's.
 
I don't think it's particularly necessary to carry, and sometimes it's rather inconvenient, however, something that is a "right" (and I believe that it fundamentally is) must ever needs be defended and exercised by those who are doing right in order to protect it from those who would dare take it away. The more folks that carry peaceably, the less ammo the other side has to attempt to take away that right.

Ryan
 
I have never felt threatened in my ability to carry that I thought I needed to exercise it. The right to bear arms has nothing to do with defending ones self but rather with defending each other against the government.

Now, if you really want to invoke your 2nd amendment rights, all you people who carry should march on Washington and kill government then head for Wall Street, heck, should have enough to send 10 million shooters to each site for simultaneous taking back of America. Take all your guns and ammo and clean house, because THAT is what the Second Amendment is about, it assures us the ability to have The Second American Revolution! Now lets go out there and kill the right people for once!
 
Gerhardt said:
I'm one of the biggest fans of CCW. But ironically, flying is one of the few times you'll find me unarmed. I've always been in the habit of flying as unemcumbered and light as possible.
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I'm also a great fan of being able to carry. But although I usually have access to a weapon when I drive, I have never carried a concealed weapon in my life.
 
If one is paranoid to the point of carry, and one is a pilot, it would really behoove you to find out your reaction to terminal stress. If you are a freeze reactor, you may as well give up both, because no matter how well prepared you are, soon as the moment comes to react, you're gonna die and those you are determined to protect will die as well. All the preparation will be for naught.
 
Henning said:
I have never felt threatened in my ability to carry that I thought I needed to exercise it. The right to bear arms has nothing to do with defending ones self but rather with defending each other against the government.
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Technically I agree with you, but it's not just against government that you have a right to defend... historically one could bear arms to defend against a government, in protection of one's home or property, or in defense of others.
Now, if you really want to invoke your 2nd amendment rights, all you people who carry should march on Washington and kill government then head for Wall Street, heck, should have enough to send 10 million shooters to each site for simultaneous taking back of America. Take all your guns and ammo and clean house, because THAT is what the Second Amendment is about, it assures us the ability to have The Second American Revolution! Now lets go out there and kill the right people for once!
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That's not the right way to go about it. Arms is the last resort of honorable men. The Founding Fathers were patient men and only went to war when all other options were essentially exhausted.

Ryan
 
Henning said:
Your chances of needing your sidearm are on the order of winning the lottery. We create the universe we live in with our thoughts, what you think is what you leave as your legacy. You can continue in fear, or you can free yourself from it. Your choice will reflect in the lives of your children and grandchildren.
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I carry a fire extinguisher in my truck and in my flight bag, but I've never been in a truck or inflight fire. My flight bag also has a portable VHF radio, and carbon monoxide detector. I've never had the radios fail, much worse than the PTT switch on one side. How many people have ELTs?

I keep a spare tire and jack in my truck and tire plugs in my truck tool kit even though I very rarely use them. I have probably plugged more tires for women with flats than for myself (don't read into that).

If I go jog or bike ride, I carry my health insurance card in the event I drop out unconscious even though It's never happened. In fact, I started carrying water on my bicycle because I saw a couple folks with beet red skin that looked like they were ready to pass out when I was on bike rides. I usually don't drink it. I watch people in the gym fill water bottles from the water fountain and carry them around with them, when they will never be more than 100 feet from the restroom or fountain their entire workout!

It's all the risk management calculations we make. If the consequences could be dire or life threatening, and the preventative measure easily within reach it's worth it to us. Psychobabble marketing studies prove we respond to threat of loss better than to discounts or positive opportunities.

That's why so much of the advertising and political message is about terrorizing every aspect of our lives. It's good for business!

I started carrying a cell phone as an emergency measure. For the most part, the majority of human speech is completely worthless, executed for the emotional benefit of the speaker.

Carrying a handgun has also caused me to be extra cautions about my own behavior. If you have a carry permit and do need to defend yourself with deadly force, and during the post event legal investigation it's determined your behavior escalated or preempted the conflict in any way you're screwed. You can't even claim you didn't know, because you have a state licensed card that says you received the legal training.

I am acutely aware that I am legally responsible for the damage done by every bullet from my hand gun. And that's all every bullet does is damage stuff. In fact I carry an abbreviated copy of the current interpretation of the rules in my palm for occasional review.

For TN:
Deadly Force-Justified 3 conditions:

1. Intent, reasonable belief of imminent danger
2. Ability, danger is real-usually see weapon
3. Jeopardy, belief danger is based on reasonable grounds

Assume intent &ability if unknown individual unlawfully &forcefully enters your:
-Business
-Residence
-Dwelling
-Vehicle

Shoot only to neutralize
Danger must be imminent.

Must be in fear of death or serious bodily injury:
-Broken Bones
-Loss of Consciousness
-Lg painful bleeding wounds
-Loss of limb
-Loss of organ
-Permanent Disfigurement
-Substantial risk of death

You have no duty to retreat if:
-Not doing anything illegal
-In a place you have a right to be

You cannot be doing anything illegal. The state will not recognize your right to carry a firearm, if you are violating the law.

Carrying a firearm has taught me to behave in a much less macho and inflammatory way. I would never tell anyone they are acting incorrectly anymore. I stay away from all trouble, keep my eyes open and mouth shut.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Minimum personal equipment list for flying:

Glock .40 3 clips hydra-shocks
Benelli M4 24 rounds LE buckshot in speed loaders
Remington 700 338 Lapua LE w/ Nightforce scope 40 rounds match grade
Bullet proof vest with ceramic plates
S&W bobbed hammer .38 on ankle
2 gals fresh water, 5 days rations
Hiking boots, fatiques, bush hat
Survival knife
Brass knuckles

If over water then add a full SCUBA rig

I just don't want to be the guy that dies because he's unprepared.

Now- Let's go do some touch and go's!!!:)
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What, no miniature combination Rooshian phrase book and bible?
 
Henning said:
If one is paranoid to the point of carry, and one is a pilot, it would really behoove you to find out your reaction to terminal stress. If you are a freeze reactor, you may as well give up both, because no matter how well prepared you are, soon as the moment comes to react, you're gonna die and those you are determined to protect will die as well. All the preparation will be for naught.
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Does nearly standing on top of a large rattlesnake at night count? :hairraise: If not, certainly some situations with students approach that.

In fact, if and when I have a .40, it usually has snakeshot for the first round.

Ryan
 
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Alexb2000 said:
Being serious for a moment: I thought a lot about this and made the personal decision not to carry for most of my flights. I am very comfortable with guns, I'm a veteran, I shoot 3-Gun matches competitively (not really competitive, but I show up and pay the fees). For me at least it came down to not wanting to deal with the responsibility of carrying a gun around all the time. For example, take a cab ride from your hotel to a restaurant for dinner, see a sign on the door saying firearms prohibited, do you go in and break the law? Or, pay for a ride back to the hotel, leave your gun, and go back? What if you need to visit the aviation section of Walmart in some distant town, oh wait, there's a sign on the door, go back to the airport and leave your gun in the plane or break the law? Those are the kinds of scenarios that make it such a pain.

If someone wants to steal my airplane, OK. If someone wants my wallet, OK. If someone has a gun pointed at me at close range, then that's a CQB scenario that I can manage with reasonable chances of success without a gun. If at longer range, then I still have some chances of escape. I weight that against constantly having to manage a firearm, especially just making sure the gun itself doesn't get stolen.

All that said, if I was a 110lb. woman who worked for Waste Management doing dumpster inspections at night, in some bad neighborhoods dark alleys, I'd have two or three always.
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You pretty much came up with the same assessment I did, carry is more of a PITA than it's worth. In all the times I have had a sidearm, I drew it once and that was my 'car gun' which put a quick reversal on a car jacking. I also happened to be in a know 'crack neighborhood' of junkyards in LA that I had to drive through getting to work and home. There has not been once when I haven't been carrying and wished I had been, it just doesn't come up.

Another issue that I looked at was one of escalation, intimidation and execution. If you are going to pull it, you have a better than 50% chance of escalating to a fire fight, so if you pull, you shoot, you shoot you shoot to kill. You need to have decided that if you are going to carry, you are going to kill. I have talked to far too many people who carry a gun to 'scare off an attacker', and that is just poor poor logic. If you haven't got it in your mind to be a killer, you're better off leaving your weapon at home. Whether in attack or defensive mode, killing someone is something many people never get over. People come home from war and kill themselves from the guilt of the killing they did. It's easy to talk with a bunch of bravado, but when it comes time to pull the trigger, the stats show that it often doesn't happen and attacker ends up with an extra weapon. That's why I recommend salt shot in the first shell or two of a home protection shot gun. At close range salt will stop a man dead in his tracks then you can keep unloading into them until you get to the 00 shell. If they get the weapon, you and your family have 2 survivable shots to get out of the way.

Everybody I talk to about this, and I am not anti gun in anyway, always has a Mittiesque picture in their mind of how it will go down. Rarely does it take into account them hesitating, thinking, and getting disarmed, yet none of them do anything to train away natural human reluctance to take life. If a person hasn't gone through military brainwashing, the likelihood of them drawing to a kill and a win against an armed assailant who may very well have already killed, becomes pretty low. Then there are the accidental deaths every year of friends and family that far outnumber any protective deaths, I'm not sure the psychological trauma of getting or worse directly killing your kid is, but I'm betting that the moment a parent accidentally shoots their child is worse than any street confrontation they could face, including the one that kills them.
 
Alexb2000 said:
For example, take a cab ride from your hotel to a restaurant for dinner, see a sign on the door saying firearms prohibited, do you go in and break the law? Or, pay for a ride back to the hotel, leave your gun, and go back? What if you need to visit the aviation section of Walmart in some distant town, oh wait, there's a sign on the door, go back to the airport and leave your gun in the plane or break the law? Those are the kinds of scenarios that make it such a pain.
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First of all concealed carry means concealed, and nobody will know you are carrying a gun. Second, you are not breaking any laws by going into a private business that has such a sign. The only thing they can do is ask you to leave, and then if you don't prosecute your for trespassing. However, they'll never know you are armed, so it won't be an issue anyway. But, hey, I understand, its a personal choice that each of us make.


If someone wants to steal my airplane, OK. If someone wants my wallet, OK. If someone has a gun pointed at me at close range, then that's a CQB scenario that I can manage with reasonable chances of success without a gun. If at longer range, then I still have some chances of escape. I weight that against constantly having to manage a firearm, especially just making sure the gun itself doesn't get stolen.

All that said, if I was a 110lb. woman who worked for Waste Management doing dumpster inspections at night, in some bad neighborhoods dark alleys, I'd have two or three always.
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How about a carjacking by a couple of thugs that ultimately shoot you, or incapacitate you, then kidnap your wife to be raped, and beaten within an inch of her life? Exact scenario I saw in court at a sentencing. To hear that woman describe the events in tears was all I needed to here to get a carry permit. The animals that were convicted just sat there stone faced. They could care less.

Happens all the time, just go down to the court house and ask a baliff.
 
That's what I don't like about all the concealed carry permits and laws, now that you can legally carry, every scared weenie now can have a hand canon without the stability of mind or practice to be able to use them effectively. Back in the days before mass CC laws people carried and just STFU about it. We didn't worry about the law, we just carried concealed and it stayed that way. People mostly carried cheap throw down unregistered guns as well. Most of the time my gun (for many years a worn out Argentinian HiPower given to me by an Argentinian Army officer, it went through the Falklands and was one worn out gun that was still dead on accurate; free, unregistered, and accurate, the best type carry gun ever) just lived next to my seat in the car chambered and ready to fire on a DA pull. The funny thing is, the only places in the US I do carry it's still illegal to do so and permits are like hens teeth. Doesn't stop me from carrying there just like being allowed to carry here doesn't cause me to.
 
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I have never felt a real need to carry an handgun anywhere, although when I was younger, I did pack now and then. I live in a fairly safe neighborhood so no need to carry there. I have never flown my airplane anywhere where I felt uncomfortable enough to wish I had a weapon with me.

I can understand if your flying to some remote area to go hiking or camping, or your perhaps planning on visiting Chicago or Detroit, with the idea of walking around to enjoy their inviting neighborhoods in the late evening, then, I guess, it would make sense to pack.

Having a gun in my airplane for the type of flying I do, seems like it could bring up more problems than it could solve, so it stays home in its drawer.

Before you do anything that you think would need input from others to help you decide on a course of action, ask yourself this one simple question; "What good can come from it?"

-John
 
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