Any Updates on the FAA proposal to allow instruction in ELSA aircraft?

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by MarkH, May 14, 2019.

  1. MarkH

    MarkH Pre-Flight

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    This was proposed in October, and I remember making a comment in support of it. I haven't heard anything about updates, progress or changes to it since the comments closed.

    Has anyone else seen coverage of this? Any suggestions on where I might find information on its progress?

    https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=FAA-2018-0926-0001
     
  2. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    Students in ELSA, dumb idea..
     
  3. Dana

    Dana Line Up and Wait

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    Not at all, if that's what they're going to be flying later. And for pilots who want to fly ultralights, there are no two seat ultralights so an "ultralight like" LSA is the best choice for training.
     
  4. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach

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  5. Stan Cooper

    Stan Cooper Line Up and Wait

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    Uh, not really. It depends on the ELSA. Today it is legal for an owner of an ELSA to get flight instruction in his own plane and for the instructor to get paid for the instruction. Not every instructor is willing to instruct in an experimental though, and not every DPE is willing to give a check ride in an experimental.

    The NPRM to allow ELSAs to be used for hire (not owned by the student) for training will probably take a while. Don't hold your breath.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  6. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    Really bad idea with a LS CFI.
     
  7. Stan Cooper

    Stan Cooper Line Up and Wait

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    I can see why some would think that. The CFI-S rating can be obtained in about half the time required to become a traditional CFI, and you can become a CFI-S without becoming a commercial pilot and still get paid to teach sport pilot students. CFI-S applicants must be at least 18 years old and hold at least a sport pilot certificate. No FAA medical certificate is required.
     
  8. Dana

    Dana Line Up and Wait

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    Why? Although you don't need as many hours to become a CFI-SP, it doesn't mean a SP instructor is bad. At my home field, there is a CFI-SP instructing in a J-3 that he's owned and flown for 30+ years... or you can fly the FBO's C-152 with an ink still wet CFI who'll be gone as soon as he has the hours for a regional job. Who would you rather learn from?
     
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  9. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Because light sport CFIs are losers who are trying to shortcut the system without valid medicals. And, without a medical, they are obviously deficient in both teaching and piloting skills. So when you put them in an aircraft with an obvious deficiency (lack of a proper certificate), the only possible outcome is flaming death raining from the sky.
     
  10. Dean V

    Dean V Pre-takeoff checklist

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    An uncertified aircraft, built by amateur builders, using unapproved parts, with inadequate testing, unreliable performance data, minimally trained and experienced instructors and solo students. What could possibly go wrong?
     
  11. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    It has an airworthiness certificate...it’s certified.
    Its parts are approved by the builder and certified airworthy by the DAR.
    It’s very possibly been tested more thoroughly than a lot of airplanes with Standard Airworthiness certificates.
    Minimally trained instructors and solo students are the norm everywhere.

    Sounds like a normal flight training operation to me. ;)

    Seriously, in my experience, an instructor or examiner who is willing to work with an E-AB or ELSA are often going to be more knowledgeable and competent than those who won’t.
     
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  12. mondtster

    mondtster En-Route

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    That’s an interesting observation. Can you explain in what ways you feel they are oftentimes more knowledgeable and competent?
     
  13. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    They’re generally willing and able to learn an airplane that somebody didn’t teach them. Not common among instructors, in my experience.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
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  14. Lon33

    Lon33 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
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  15. Ventucky Red

    Ventucky Red Line Up and Wait

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    So using this logic you're saying that an RN with and AS degree is a loser because they don't have a BSN.... and a Physician Assisted with out a medical degree is a loser because they don't have an M.D.?

    And, are you saying that having a medical somehow gives you super power teaching skills?
     
  16. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Cue foghorn leghorn meme or quote.
     
  17. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Pattern Altitude

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    OR maybe he's being sarcastic. It's been known to happen.
     
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  18. Ventucky Red

    Ventucky Red Line Up and Wait

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    One should use the international sarcasm font o_O
     
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